Jump to content
  • Behold, one and all! The greatest Tournament in the history of Pokemon!


    Marcello
     Share

    Hello, dear reader! Many of you may recall me as the guy that used to write both short, cryptic, exceedingly dumb devblog posts AND long, dramatic, still exceedingly dumb devblog posts!

     

    But alas, I have not done so in a while, especially the latter. Indeed, Cass has taken the torch from me in hilarious yet informative devblog content (hi cass ur gr8 I enjoy all ur posts), where have I been?

     

    Well, I would love to tell you all that I have been quietly biding my time. Waiting. Working on my Magnum Opus of a devblog post for months turning into years, wanting to wow you all.

    That's entirely not what happened it's just most of what I've worked on is either not interesting enough for a post, or too spoilery for one. But still, we'll just pretend that's what's been happening.

     

    ANYWAY! We are not here to talk about me, oh no. We are here to talk about the Grandest of Events. A Tournament like no other. Something so Amazing you'll hardly believe your eyes!

     

    That's right. Today's devblog post, after much waiting and anticipation, is about...

     

    The One.

    The Only.

     

    ...

     

    not THE LABRADORRA GRAND TOURNAMENT OF B00TY!!!

    (Seriously guys we posted about that on April Fools two and a half years ago, I don't think it needs more followup than that.)

     

    "Wait, if it's not that... OMG! Are you talking about some kind of actual tournament you're running for us, the loyal fanbase of Reborn?" - I hear you ask?


    Also no. And come on guys stop interrupting me I'm trying to be dramatic.

     

    To explain what this post is truly about, we have to rewind back a bit. You see, as many of you may be aware from other devblog posts, the team (especially Cass and Perry I appreciate you both very much!) have been putting huge amounts of work in optimising a lot of our code, and one part of that was a lot of structural changes to AI to get everything in top working condition for E19. And that has been going wonderfully! But it comes with a problem.

     

    How do you test such changes? There are so many ways the AI could go wrong, and the devs can only try so many things to try and see if it works.

    Well, Perry had a simple yet brilliant answer to this - Whipping up some code that can make the AI trainers fight eachother for testing purposes. That way we can run a bunch of battles, look over the debuglogs, single out any dumb choices the AI made and fix those! So much more efficient than just hoping one of us stumbles on the AI doing something weird when we play.

     

    But, let me explain how Perry and I are different people. You see, Perry is... I think the technical, scientific term is 'Productive'. This was a brilliant idea that solved a big testing issue!

    But me? When I saw this, I knew that I could take this innovation and instead use it as an excuse to be deeply unproductive. As is my style, by taking it and using it to do something fun and interesting but also not particularly useful!

     

    SoanywayImadeeverysingleAItrainerfighteveryotherAItrainer.

     

    That's right. The Tournament in question was an impromptu Round Robin where every single trainer in the game battled every other one!

    No I haven't seen that Elo World youtube video where someone did this for Pokemon Red & Blue I have no idea what you're talking about all my ideas are entirely original.

     

    So buckle up! This is gonna be a fun and goofy ride but there's also gonna be probably more statistics and spreadsheets than you expect!!!

     

     

    Now, to begin, lets explain the setup. We did three runs of this tournament, in three distinct formats (although the third is special for reasons that will be apparent). In ALL formats, all pokemon were set to Level 100, although movesets were retained. This specifically detriments that one random FEAR trainer in the Desert so he underperformed compared to how he should've, but also fuck that guy that's what he gets for running FEAR.

     

    1) Everybody battles Everybody else in a Single Battle with NO Field.

    2) Everybody battles Everybody else in a Double Battle with NO Field.

    3) League Trainers only (That is: Gym Leaders, Elite 4 Members, & the Champion) fights Everybody but specifically on their preferred format (i.e. Julia fights everybody on Electric Terrain Single Battle, Shelly fights everybody on Forest Field Double Battle, you get the idea.)

     

    The first was just the initial idea and attempt at this, just to see what happens. The second was an extension when I remembered double battles exist. And the third was very much more an interest piece of like 'Hey, lets see how the leaders perform in their best case scenario' because I thought it would be super interesting to compare and see how that looks!

     

    Now, a few methodological points for anybody that is interested: I know I really should have run all of these two or three times each because there's rng involved and stuff, but also everybody fighting everybody else is in the ballpark of a million battles which, surprise surprise, actually takes quite a while to run! So you'll have to deal with the fact these were only run once so, as in any good pokemon tournament, there may have been some RNG-caused upsets!

     

    Second, outside of some specifically interesting cases, I will be talking in terms of a percentage winrate instead of number of wins just because these tests were done as we were working on some postgame trainers so there were slightly different numbers of trainers in each format, but not enough that I feel like it skews the results enough to rerun things!

     

    And that's that! We ran this, it spat out the result of every single fight, then I spent a few weeks messing around in a very large spreadsheet and got the data organised nicely and analysed!

     

    So, some last bits of intro logistics to this concept and then I can finally like, actually start the main content of this post! I will be splitting this into two main sections. In Part One I'll talk about the general results, specifically in formats 1) and 2), pointing out anything notable or relevant in the top 10, 50 or 100 that I think stands out! In Part Two, I'll focus in specifically on the Gym Leaders and talk more in depth about their performance in all three formats, and give some analysis about what that means about their performance in general!

     

    And also, you should probably familiarize yourself with two shorthands I am going to be using:

     

    Illegal - This should be self explanatory. A trainer has an illegal team if it has something it would be impossible for the player to get. Things like illegal EVs via PULSE2, PULSE mons generally, shenanigans with illegal movesets, and just the complete and utter fuckery we have in store for you with the top secret postgame Dev fights because we made the game and we don't have to follow the rules.

     

    Bullshit - A trainer's team is Bullshit if it is bullshit. Like, sure, running 6 Psychic Type Legendaries (because fuck there are so many of those) with a Tapu Lele lead that all have optimised statspreads and movesets designed specifically to fuck you up on Psychic Terrain is technically legal and the player could also do that, but the AI doing it is still bullshit.

     

    These shorthands will be useful particularly in Part One of the post because surprise surprise the top 100 trainers in Formats 1 & 2 are pretty strongly dominated by things that are Illegal or Bullshit (although maybe not as much so as you'd think!)

     

    So, without further ado...

     

    Part One: Fieldless

     

    So, lets talk about Singles first. 6 of the top 10 are dev fights. (Including me! Hell yeah. 7th place with a 97% winrate. Take that 8th place Cass, with your paltry also 97% winrate (but hers is a lower 97% I won like 2 more fights than her get DUNKED ON Cass).

     

    In fact, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 8th & 10th places are all dev fights. Shoutout to former dev Lia in the #1 spot showcasing her fight's utter shenanigans with a 99% Winrate (also, spoilers, the top 50 looks totally different for doubles but she STILL took #1 there too, albeit with a slightly lower winrate. The rest of us devs need to step our game up, clearly).

     

    Most of the remaining spots in the top 10 aren't too notable. There's a lot of Bullshit. Heck, the specific team I used as the example to define Bullshit is in there.

    Oh, and Lin is in there too somewhere but don't worry about that.

    What I want to talk about is 3rd place. Because, somehow, despite all the Illegal and/or Bullshit fights we threw into postgame, 3rd place is something that takes place in the Main Story. In E19, in fact.

     

    Lets talk a little bit about PULSE-Clawitzer.

    Zoidberg.jpg.6c3a90c141cd1a58c5336b443050ee75.jpg

    This is PULSE-Clawitzer. You fight them in E19. Apparently it's pretty hard because the fight has a 98% winrate here, which is higher than every single other trainer except the two most difficult dev fights. So, y'know, good luck with that.

     

    On the bright side, E19 isn't all bad. You also fight PULSE-Mr Mime and that fight is allllllllll the way down at 552nd place with a paltry 39% winrate (as a point of comparison that's pretty close to like... Julia. The very first gym leader with a team of NFE mons with terrible statspreads and movesets. Sure, it was hard like an hour into the game, but...) So at least you know that when you play E19 you'll just be able to relax and that fight won't cause any problems at all! ^~^

     

    The rest of the top 50 is about what you'd expect. Dev fights, postgame bullshit, some illegal shenanigans. A few victory road battles made it in which is neat!

     

    Also lets all give a round of applause to Baby's First Illegal team which is only really barely Illegal, which is the E18 fight against Solaris in Agate City, with the PULSE2 on his Garchomp - You'd hope he performed well given Singles with No Field is the format he actually fights on, and he doesn't disappoint, all the way up at 32nd place, the highest ranking trainer that is already in the current version of the game!

     

    But still. Dev fights are very illegal. There's a lot of postgame bullshit here. Obviously PULSE-Clawitzer is illegal. Everything in the top 50 is Illegal or Bullshit or both.

     

    Well, except for one trainer. The highest ranking 'Fair' (which I use as shorthand to mean neither Bullshit nor Illegal) trainer managed to make it to 46th place. This is pretty impressive - the next two Fair trainers aren't until 65th & 78th place.

     

    With a 92% winrate in Fieldless Singles? I hope you're all ready for the gym battle against Saphira in E19!!!! Because she utterly destroyed the competition, miles ahead of the next highest winrate gym leader (surprisingly given it's singles and without a field, it's still Hardy at 85%!), and she even managed to beat the entire Elite 4 on winrate as well!

     

    But we can talk more about that in Part Two.

     

    Before that, though, lets look at how things are different in Fieldless Doubles!

     

    Dev Team Lia still dominates at first place; her team is too good. The top 10 is once again 6 devs, although not the same 6 as before. (Alas I am the one that has been dunked on, in doubles I fell all the way down to 20th place and Cass kicked my butt and is now all the way up at 5th place)

     

    Indeed, this theme is going to be apparent - While Doubles-centric teams can perform reasonably well still on Singles, a lot of the big hitters from Single battles seriously struggled battling in doubles. PULSE-Clawitzer fell all the way down to 21st place (below me! And I'm terrible at pokemon! Git Gud Clawitzer). PULSE-Mr Mime did slightly better than before but ultimately still very badly at 446th place.

     

    Saphira really suffered hard though. She lost her spot as the highest winrate Fair trainer. That was taken by some randome generic Victory Road fight which isn't even a double battle and, honestly, I love that. This fact might be my favourite thing in E19, especially because that trainer jumped up like 50 places in the leaderboard from Singles. You gotta appreciate the hustle.

     

    But alas, Saphira's bad day doesn't end there, oh no. She not only lost her spot as the best Fair trainer, in doubles she didn't even manage to be the best Gym Leader - Taking to the format like a fish to water, she was beaten handily by Hardy and, although by a slimmer margin, also by Adrienn!

     

    Indeed, looking at gym leaders it is clear just how much harder doubles is if you don't have a team built for it. After those top three, the next highest ranking gym leaders are Charlotte & Radomus, beating the fights that came much later than them in game by merit of being built for the field. Even Aya did really well despite being earlier game because of her doubles team. As for the reamining Doubles leaders, Shelly still struggled because of how early on her fight is, and lets just not talk about Amaria until later because yikes.

    Lin still comfortably sits in the top 20 but like, don't worry about it.

     

    But, speaking of later, I think it's time to get into the reeeeaaaal fun. Have you ever wondered how well balanced the Gym Leaders are? Ever wondered which ones rely on their field most, and which ones least? Which ones are unusually strong or weak for their point in the game? Or do you just want to know how scared you should be of what's coming in E19? Well, then do I have the devblog post for you!

     

    It's this one. This is the post. We're moving to part two now.

     

    Part Two: League Members

     

    So, before we begin, lets talk about the elephant in the room. You are going to notice a distinct lack of Corey and Kiki in the upcoming analysis.

     

    Did I forget to run their fights? Yes.

    Did we change the earlygame story a bit for E19 so they are no longer Gym Leaders because we all decided we really didn't like the contrived excuses to not give you a badge? Also yes.

     

    With that cleared up, lets start from the top! There is going to be A LotTM here so I will be putting the individual analysis of each leader in spoiler tags, handily labelling them as we go along! Although this is just so this post is slightly easier to scroll through and look back over I will be writing all of these assuming you've read them all in order.

     

     

    trainer093.png.359311af5c9f1aedf761a06e6ac88f0a.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 37.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 41.7%

    Correct Format: 39.8%

     

    (Single Battle Electric Terrain)

     

    So, Julia is the first Leader in the game, her team is mostly not fully evolved, a lot of her mons use Sonicboom as the main offensive move, it's no wonder her winrates are so low. That doesn't make her uninteresting, however! In fact, she holds a unique title as the only Leader who's highest winrate was NOT on the correct format. In fact, as you can see, she curiously does best on doubles fieldless!

     

    Of course, this isn't really TOO surprising. She's the first leader so she isn't built to take too much advantage of the field. Pretty funky that her best performance is doubles when she usually fights Singles though. But, regardless, I'm sure nobody will be surprised to hear that she is the worst performing Leader, as expected of her ranking.

     

    trainer096.png.d657bdc3b88b768300c80a66c5017281.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 44.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 43.9%

    Correct Format: 46.3%

     

    (Single Battle Desert Field)

     

    Florinia comes in as a fair jump up from Julia in all formats, but nontheless still is rather low performing in the scheme of things, still relying on a mostly NFE team with weak moves.

     

    There is still an interesting observation here - Florinia is one of the most versatile gym leaders, with a very small difference between her highest and lowest winrate (in fact, the second smallest margin of all leaders). What this means is she fights consistently regardless of field or format. And that makes sense - Most of her team's strength does not come from the Desert Field, but instead from the Sandstorm weather itself, which she can utilise handily regardless of format.

     

    This also matches up with the fact that many people consider her an earlygame difficulty spike. Even though the numerical jump from Julia isn't huge, the consistency is notable - It means that no matter what you do to change the situation she can still put up a good fight!

     

    trainer101.png.94e941d3860f347735346eeb0f58ceba.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 49.9%

    Doubles Fieldless: 52.8%

    Correct Format: 57.2%

     

    (Double Battle Forest Field)

     

    So far we've been on a clear upwards winrate increase and Shelly is no exception! The first leader who clearly makes major use of their field with an almost 5% jump when using it, but still performs reasonably well even without it because, like Florinia before her, a lot of her power comes from a weather rather than a field.

     

    However, this is still earlygame, and Shelly is an unfortunate spot of being the 'best of the worst'. After her, the Leaders all use Fully Evolved Pokemon (yes I'm counting Shade's Doublade don't give me shit for that) and generally start getting more focused movesets and statspreads, so while these numbers may seem high in comparison to the Julia and Florinia, there's a big winrate jump coming and Shelly is going to look pretty weak in comparison!

     

    trainer103.png.8e65988014aec72ea0c87f63d72bd559.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 67.1%

    Doubles Fieldless: 65.2%

    Correct Format: 69.8%

     

    (Single Battle Shortcircuit Field)

     

    As I said, we've hit a BIG winrate jump, as Shade comes in with a fully evolved team (once again if anybody says anything about Doublade I will FIGHT you), and it shows. While there's not a huge jump from fieldless to with a field, our mysterious entity friend is still somewhat supported by his field of choice - And even if he wasn't, his winrates speak for themselves, and he can clearly battle circles around the first three leaders.

     

    So, if you've ever felt like Shade was a huge difficulty spike, consider yourself vindicated - The numbers agree with you! (Although this is the point in the game when a lot of your mons are starting to be fully evolved too so maybe not that vindicated. Not that I'm one to talk I am terrible at this game.)

     

    trainer013.png.2ce95584d1de7847fb09d78771058b89.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 70.9%

    Doubles Fieldless: 71.2%

    Correct Format: 74.5%

     

    (Double Battle Wasteland Field)

     

    So, I have to admit when I first saw Aya's results, I was quite surprised. I would've expected her to have performed worse than Shade, because I've never found her that hard. On the otherhand, Wasteland field is so wild I would've thought her Correct Format winrate would be a big jump, and yet she's another leader that is relatively versatile and performs well on any format!

     

    Still, in hindsight there IS a lot of game between Shade and her (including an entire not-gym-leader-anymore) so that's a reasonable amount of time for your team to get more evolved and stronger to keep up, so her not feeling as intimidating as him is not unreasonable. Still, she did a great job, and should be proud of her performance and have some more self confidence in her battling ability! Believe in the Hardy that believes in you, Aya!

     

    trainer020.png.e4c0ff5842e663cab88832e4b57ee0e1.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 67.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 66.6%

    Correct Format: 79.8%

     

    (Single Battle Mirror Arena)

     

    So, Serra wins two prizes! First, she's the first leader that does worse than the previous leader in ANY format - Losing to Aya (and nearly tying with Shade) on the Fieldless Formats. But, there's a good reason for this - As she's also the first leader with a HUGE reliance on her field, with a whopping 12.4% jump just from having her field.

     

    And really, is anybody surprised? Mirror Arena is pretty wild, and her team is built specifically for it. Of COURSE she's going to perform significantly better on it.

     

    This also explains why the #1 strategy most people offer when asked by new players stuck on Serra is 'smash the field', because even though it pisses her off, she performs significantly less effectively without it!

     

    trainer022.png.d7dc4bb3e769e640671510939db4940c.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 73.5%

    Doubles Fieldless: 71.9%

    Correct Format: 74.1%

     

    (Single Battle Grassy Terrain)

     

    Ah, Noel. The Prodigy. Probably one of the most universally experienced difficulty spikes in the game. Everyone has had trouble with Noel before. So no wonder that--

     

    Wait, what do you MEAN he did worse than Serra?

     

    That's right. No doubt paradoxically to many of you, the first leader that has done worse than the previous leader on Correct Format (in fact, the Eagle Eyed among you will notice he also did slightly worse than Aya!) is Noel.

     

    "But how?" You ask

    "I was stuck on Noel for ages!" You exclaim

     

    Well, remember when I said Florinia was one of the most consistent leaders? Enter Noel, the most consistent of all the Leaders, performing almost identically regardless of format.

     

    And THAT is why so many people find Noel quite so difficult. By this point in the game you've probably gotten good at field manipulation. Maybe you have a field strategy of your own, or maybe you just have the tools to change the nastier ones.

     

    Serra is brutal but it's fine, you change the field and she's much weaker. But Noel doesn't care, he's fighting at full capacity no matter what you do. You can't really weaken Noel, you just have to be better than him as is. That is where his difficulty comes from, despite the unimpressive numbers for his point in the game.

     

    trainer023.png.a1b29c33df557cfb5ab470bd05c9ea4e.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 74.2%

    Doubles Fieldless: 80.7%

    Correct Format: 92.7%

     

    (Double Battle Chess Field)

     

    Yeah that's not a typo. Daddymoose just kind of walks up, looks at all these sub-80% winrates, and then CRASHES through with just shy of 93% on correct format. Chess field is pretty powerful, and Reborn's resident chessmaster knows exactly how to use it.

     

    Randomgoose is still a force to be reckoned with in fieldless doubles, but this is a leader that gets a similar field boost as Serra - But his field is significantly harder to get rid of AND his starting point without it is significantly stronger.

     

    So, if you ever found yourself struggling with the gym fight against Raddledict Cumbomus, know that you are not alone - Over 90% of the AI trainers are with you!

     

    Oh, and just as a point of comparison, remember how Saphira was the best fair trainer on singles fieldless? She did that with a 92% winrate. Leaders very much stop fucking around from this point in the game, although perhaps not as dramatically as Hatbonus for a while.

     

    trainer034.png.8894eba99221670bf4c7ea3f4a1d3eee.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 79.8%

    Doubles Fieldless: 75.8%

    Correct Format: 86.6%

     

    (Single Battle Dark Crystal Cavern)

     

    Hey this one is for all the Luna haters that say she's a weak leader. The numbers disagree with you, maybe YOU are in fact a weak leader! So there!

     

    Luna shows up with a very respectable performance, her fieldless performance largely a mirror of her adoptive father just with the formats swapped around. When it comes to Correct Format, sure, her boost from the field isn't quite as dramatic as Radomus, but it's certainly not minor either. 86.6% is an incredibly impressive winrate, still winning against the vast majority of AI trainers when on her field.

     

    And it's only uphill from here...

     

    trainer039.png.b6427f6b618ce20bcc0bf59809ba299a.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 75.9%

    Doubles Fieldless: 78.0%

    Correct Format: 95.1%

     

    (Single Battle Big Top Arena)

     

    So, y'know how this game only has like 2 fights on Big Top? There's a reason for that. Big top is absolutely fucking bonkers.

     

    Samson is pretty bad without a field. We're in the circus, Sub-80% winrates at this point are not good, he's clearly underperforming; and the fact that he actually does better fieldless on doubles is worrying for a singles leader.

     

    But that's fine. Because you don't fight Samson fieldless, you fight him on a field. And boy does he know how to use that field. A 95% winrate is honestly terrifying. No matter how much he underperforms without his field, Samson is a force to be reckoned with.

     

    Indeed, with a 95.1% winrate, Samson makes his way into the top 5 leaders in terms of winrate - Despite him not being that late into the game, on correct format, Samson ranks as the FOURTH PLACE Gym Leader.

     

    trainer048.png.bbc1e1c8fb2b0108f2e2b51b9e6942d8.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 79.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 82.6%

    Correct Format: 88.7%

     

    (Double Battle Superheated Field)

     

    Honestly, this is impressive. I mean, it really SHOULD feel impressive. And yet, after seeing Samson's performance it just kind of falls flat.

     

    Still, Charlotte performs very well with her field, and even fieldless she manages to break 80%, something that hasn't happened since Radomus - Remember Radomus? A simpler time, before we had witnessed the terrors of a 95% winrate.

     

    Honestly I've always struggled with Charlotte more than Samson myself, but a big chunk of that is that I'm just very bad at double battles so that probably tracks.

     

    Still, you have to feel bad for Charlotte. 88.7% is a great winrate, but next to her sisters' perfomances, she may as well be a youngster with a Rattata...

     

    trainer068.png.dac6e5f2ff64a72e5b5a28b733b38f4d.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 80.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 78.0%

    Correct Format: 89.0%

     

    (Single Battle Glitch Field)

     

    Coming in just a little stronger than Charlotte, but not quite reaching the heights of Radomus or Samson, we have the Queen of B00TY herself. I was honestly quite surprised she didn't get a bigger jump from her field. 9% isn't small, but Glitch Field is so core to her team I had expected a jump more like Samson's!

     

    Still, Terra can quite easily ruin someone's day with her field and it shows with her winrate being this close to that fabled 90% benchmark.

     

    Still, being the worst perorming of the Agate Ace Triumvurate must sting for her.

     

    Perhaps she'll do a little better in the Tournament of B00ty?

     

    trainer074.png.d9d6c018eb75903096d45c59d6fe83a6.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 82.2%

    Doubles Fieldless: 79.8%

    Correct Format: 90.0%

     

    (Single Battle Big Top Arena)

     

    We're back to Big Top and it's craziness! While she doesn't utiliste it quite as well as Samson, Ciel still manages to make strong use of a strong field, breaking into the coveted 90% range!

     

    That said, I'm gonna stop making a big deal of breaking 90% from now on - I mean, it's still a big deal. It's a phenomenally high winrate, and I don't want any of you to forget that! It's just going to be the norm from here on out.

     

    Also shoutout to Ciel for being the first leader with a Mega, you'd think that'd mark a big difficulty spike but... Well, here we are. Samson bullying her once again. Some things never change.

     

    trainer111.png.0a954011dc3a0fe91b946e141e5223d0.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 80.5%

    Doubles Fieldless: 89.7%

    Correct Format: 94.1%

     

    (Double Battle Misty Terrain on top of Fairytale Field)

     

    Hey all the numbers are above 80%!

     

    Adrienn is powerful. Xe doesn't always come to mind as one of the game's most difficult gym leaders, but I've never found xem to be a pushover either.

     

    94.1% outperforms Radomus' crazy showing on Chess Field, and is just shy of Samson's performance - And indeed, Samson was Fourth place, but right behind him in terms of winrate, Adrienn sneaks into the top five as the FIFTH PLACE Gym Leader.

     

    But oh no? We still have 3 more spots in to top three, and four more gym leaders to go! Who isnt going to make it? Such suspense!

    I mean, I'm sure you all know but just play along.

     

    trainer118.png.426f99e8a48177ed4aa64f163c2c9b0c.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 83.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 77.1%

    Correct Format: 97.7%

     

    (Single Battle Fairytale Field (with permanent hail))

     

    So I don't think anybody is surprised by this one. Starting Weather is wild. Fairytale Field is wild. Steel Types are wild. Titania is wild.

     

    It's worth pointing out how badly she performs in doubles in particular - But who cares? You don't fight her in doubles. You fight her in Singles, on Fairytale Field, where she has a 97.7% winrate. That's high enough I can give a little context on numbers - Titania only lost 24 battles. Total. Battled every single trainer in the game and she lost 24 times.

     

    I can't speak for you but I have found her the most difficult leader every time I've played except when I tested E19 so this isn't a huge shock.

     

    And indeed, with a 97.7% winrate, Titania bursts into the leader rankings at SECOND PLACE.

     

    Now, we still had Third and First Place to fill, but three gym leaders left? I wonder who could be the odd one out?

     

    ...I mean, fine. Lets just get Amaria over with. If we have to.

     

    trainer120.png.53612ac72c3ab15451ff4f0ec890b947.pngtrainer121.png.952a6d3c114d8a1f380389b216c5bc33.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 76.4%

    Doubles Fieldless: 75.1%

    Correct Format: 97.2%

     

    (Single Battle Water Surface)

     

    AND

     

    Singles Fieldless: 72.1%

    Doubles Fieldless: 77.9%

    Correct Format: 97.2%

     

    (Double Battle Water Surface)

     

    A leader so nice!

    We tested her twice!

     

    SURPRISE!

     

    You thought she did terribly, but the joke is on you! Amaria absolutely CRUSHED it. She breezes past the Samson both in terms of winrate AND as the leader that relies most on their field, performing very poorly without regardless of format, but the moment you put her in the water she is down to clown and ready to DROWN. You, specifically. She is going to drown you. Glub glub, nerd.

     

    For fairness we tested both her Singles AND Doubles teams for this and, by total coincidence, they EXACTLY tied in performance on correct format, so both versions of Amaria come in taking the THIRD PLACE spot of the leader rankings!

     

    This also very much tracks with what people's experience of Amaria seems to be. If you change the field or bring a Shedinja she's a pretty easy leader, especially for how late in the game she is. But if you try to fight her on her own turf, letting her dance you around on the surface of the water and underneath? She's up there as one of the most difficult!

     

    But, even if it's not the answer you expected, with 2 leaders left and only the top spot remaining, I guess that answers who didn't make the top 5...

     

    trainer131.png.73f8fce34675f41be05e233da0a00901.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 84.6%

    Doubles Fieldless: 91.3%

    Correct Format: 94.1%

     

    (Double Battle Rocky Field)

     

    SURPRISE AGAIN!

     

    By a technicality everyone hits the top 5 because Hardy managed to tie exactly with Adrienn, getting them into joint FIFTH PLACE.

     

    Hardy is another leader that I find is like Amaria in that this is either going to be brutal or trivial and there is nothing in between. But with Hardy, isntead of changing the field (because indeed, his fieldless winrates are still phenomenal, 91.3 made him the #1 leader in doubles fieldless!) it's just... bringing at least 2 mons that resist rock. Or any mon with wide guard.

     

    If you don't have either of those things he's an impassible brick wall. If you do? He's probably fine.

     

    And it looks like 94% of the time? The AI didn't bring either of those things. Now, it's time for what you've all been waiting for...

     

    trainer140.png.d478f93f8735450d0e9677e4023ba64e.png

    Spoiler

    Singles Fieldless: 92.5%

    Doubles Fieldless: 88.3%

    Correct Format: 99.1%

     

    (Single Battle Dragon's Den)

     

    I hope you are all looking forward to getting utterly stomped come E19 because I think I speak on behalf of every member of the dev team that has played it when I say - I sure as hell know I did!

     

    Hitting nearly a 93% winrate without a field, without bullshit, and without anything illegal, is already insane, let alone on a monotype trainer. The fact she was in fact the very best fair trainer as discussed earlier is even moreso.

     

    But of course, you aren't going to fight her without a field. You're going to fight her on Dragon's Den. A powerful field for an already powerful trainer. So it's no wonder that she has no issue coming in FIRST PLACE of the Gym Leaders with 99.1% winrate, losing a total of only 9 battles in the entire tournament.

     

    Of course, we've all played pokemon before. And your journey doesn't end when you get all the badges...

     

     

    Elite Four

    Spoiler

    So, I don't want to spoil too much here! So I'm not going to tell you which E4 member got which winrate or anything like that. But I will tell you that the Correct Format winrates for the Elite 4, from lowest to highest?

     

    95.2%

    96.0%

    96.0%

    97.2%

     

    So y'know, I hope you can all have fun with that! <3

     

    The only other thing I will say is the highest performer here with a 97.2% winrate? They actually take Amaria's crown as the league member with the biggest reliance on their field, jumping up from a frankly pathetic-for-E4 fieldless winrate of 73.9%.

     

    But it's fine, because that E4 fight is not Fieldless, you fight them on their field.

     

    I guess Flower Garden Field really is potent, huh?

     

     

    And with that, my dear readers, this most gargantuan of devblog posts comes to a close. I wish you all a fond farewell, and hope you are-

     

    What's that, you say? I missed someone?

    I have no idea what you're talking about. I already told you why we aren't including Corey and Kiki. So who else could you possibly-

     

    Ah, right. I mean, I told you not to think about it but, I guess. It's not a big deal or anything but sure, whatever.

     

     

    Spoiler

    trainer149.png.e8e1939bd8c628cac48d768f7637dae5.pngOn correct format Lin had a 100% winrate, but like, don't worry about it!

     

    • Like 75
    • Thanks 9
    • Haha 3
    • Hmm 1
    • Upvote 2
     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    Ok imma say it, this might be the coolest dev blog post ever.

     

     

    Spoiler

    HOLY SHIT LIN U WIN, I DON’T WANNA FIGHT TAKE NEW WORLD TAKE EVERYTHING 



     

     

    ps I absolutely refuse to give up on the tournament of b00ty, I know it will happen

     

    • Haha 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Lin 100% win rate

    Levitate double speed pulse2 hydreigon x1.5 boost dark pulse x1.5 boost flash cannon x2 boost draco meteor x4 boost Black Hole Eclipse 

     

    042FF4BB-5D85-433A-8124-20D748B19EC6.gif.e8369692ee0e91b52fd0fa0270ace538.gif

     

    also did she get a redesign? The sprite looks different 

    • Upvote 6
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    my excitement to have my face kicked in by the game is growing exponentially. also headcanon lin is the gastlight gatekeep girlboss of reborn and you cant prove me wrong

    • Like 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I just undestand one thing right now
    Since Meteor take under their managment that final mountain
    I guess Lin now a champion. And meanwhile team meteor tryes to take Elite 4 out.
    Oh boy, episode 19 gonna be real madness

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Oh, THE LABRADORRA GRAND TOURNAMENT OF B00TY battle royal is neat. Hype train speeds up.

    Well, since we don`t know (or know?) Lin`s team, but field boosts both of them, who was the winner of the battle between Lin and Saphira? If it`s possible to spoiler lol

    Edited by Dark_mist-X
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I cackled maniacally while reading this post. 

    I think I need help. 

     

    Also "Raddledict Cumbomus" may have scooped me (sort of, in a manner of speaking, because the devs are, well, the devs). As if he was psychic or something.  

     

    (I also need help about productivity but I suspect that maybe I shouldn't ask you)

     

    Anyway, thank you for this very interesting (and hilarious at least to me) post. 

     

    @Dark_mist-X Marcello wrote in the first comment that 

    Spoiler

    Lin only lost three battles, all of them illegal and bullshit and countering her. 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Sounds like Lin is going to be a totally fair and balanced™ fight

    Now I really want to know what team that random victory road trainer is running that they managed to perform that well.

     

    Can you make the AI fight the Glass Factory gauntlet? Personally I found that one to be by far the hardest bit of the game so far so it'd be interesting to see how each trainer does when faced with what we players have to go through.

    • Like 3
    • Sad 1
    • Upvote 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    How hard was this Tournament to set up?

    How would Rejuvenation's leaders do?

    What if we made the Rejuvenation leaders fight the Reborn League?

    Can Saphira step on me?

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Ah another post from the dev team, what else do you have store for us.  Those rates about the gym leaders look very interesting, but I noticed that in the E4 rates two of them are identical.

     

    Also I liked Lin and Saphira's new sprites, as they look cool in those styles. Hmm I can wait to enter the tournament as well, but also the final showdown in Labradorra City and in Charous Mountain. Better hurry now

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • Developers
    28 minutes ago, Evi Crystal said:

    Ah another post from the dev team, what else do you have store for us.  Those rates about the gym leaders look very interesting, but I noticed that in the E4 rates two of them are identical.

     

    Also I liked Lin and Saphira's new sprites, as they look cool in those styles. Hmm I can wait to enter the tournament as well, but also the final showdown in Labradorra City and in Charous Mountain. Better hurry now

     

    For the record, those two were not actually identical! They had a one win difference between them, but both rounded to 96.0! I tried to specifically point out all the exact ties!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    No matter how I look at it, no gym leader gave me as much trouble as Shelly, but that's mostly due to having next to no useful pokemon at that point in the game against her. If I were to rate the 17 of them who I've fought how problematic they were for ME at that point in time it'd go something like this (from hardest to easiest):
    Shelly, Samson, Ciel, Radomus, Hardy, Titania, Amaria, Adrienn, Aya, Charlotte, Luna, Noel, Terra, Florinia, Serra, Julia, Shade

    Edited by Arcane Gale
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, Mindlack said:

    I cackled maniacally while reading this post. 

    I think I need help. 

     

    Also "Raddledict Cumbomus" may have scooped me (sort of, in a manner of speaking, because the devs are, well, the devs). As if he was psychic or something.  

     

    (I also need help about productivity but I suspect that maybe I shouldn't ask you)

     

    Anyway, thank you for this very interesting (and hilarious at least to me) post. 

     

    @Dark_mist-X Marcello wrote in the first comment that 

      Hide contents

    Lin only lost three battles, all of them illegal and bullshit and countering her. 

     

    Ah, rly, I forgot about 

    Spoiler

    Saphira`s team is Fair and Lin won all Fair trainers, yeah.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    SO THE LABRADORRA GRAND TOURNAMENT OF B00TY WAS A LIE?! Plz man dont do that to my heart! I was sure i was gonna see some b00ty action there! lol

     

    Jokes aside, im impressed of how much work and effort you guys are putting. And seeing those numbers make me feel even more hyped to play this masterpiece once its done.

     

    EXCELLENT JOB GUYS! THE HYPE TRAIN IS REEEEEEEEAAAAAAAL!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Oh my goodness nice to have some stuff confirmed or revealed. I don't care that they are illegal, Dev fights will be cool for instance. Also, we know there will be illegal stuff in the postgame, and not before which is great, and that we should be scared of Saphira (who most likely uses singles btw). I find it incredibly funny how Pulse Mr. Mime underperformed despite Marcello claiming that despite knowing how to fight it, he "can do fuck all against this thing", and I'm horrified of Pulse Clawitzer. And it seems we are rightfully scared of the flower garden field. I kinda hope that the bug I reported a long time ago with the stage 5 overflowing to 4 didn't get fixed, although it probably was. And also HYYYPPPPEEE.

     

    I completely didn't lie down on my bed and start crylaughing when I saw Lin's winrate, not at all.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • Developers
    15 hours ago, Noivy said:

     

    You know you gotta make this trainer a doubles fight now.

     

    Sure why not, I guess we should.

     

     

    11 hours ago, HelpMiiPlease said:

    Lin 100% win rate

    Levitate double speed pulse2 hydreigon x1.5 boost dark pulse x1.5 boost flash cannon x2 boost draco meteor x4 boost Black Hole Eclipse

    Listen, I'm not gonna say that's the exact set her Hydreigon runs. But I'm also not gonna say that's NOT the exact set her Hydreigon runs.

     

     

    6 hours ago, Dark_mist-X said:

    Oh, THE LABRADORRA GRAND TOURNAMENT OF B00TY battle royal is neat. Hype train speeds up.

    Well, since we don`t know (or know?) Lin`s team, but field boosts both of them, who was the winner of the battle between Lin and Saphira? If it`s possible to spoiler lol

    So on Lin'scorrect format, Lin beat Saphira when they fought (Because she beat nearly everyone), but on Saphira's correct format it looks like she managed to incredibly narrowly beat Lin, which is fun!

     

    Unfortunately you fight them both on their respective correct formats, so they're at their best. Have fun with that!

    • Like 5
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Oh god I didn't want to click the bottom one because I knew exactly what it was gonna say, but I just had to see.

     

    Also I'm a little sad to hear that Corey and Kiki won't be gym leaders anymore (especially Corey since being a new leader is a big part of Aya's character, I can see how you can make it work for Kiki pretty well) but I'm sure you guys will make it all work nicely and make sense for the story.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    >trainer149.png.e8e1939bd8c628cac48d768f7637dae5.pngOn correct format Lin had a 100% winrate, but like, don't worry about it!

     

    I worry. I worry Greatly. though i am really looking forward to challenge all the postgame trainers...

     

    also, as someone who loves analysis, this is like a dream come true. I wish I could have contributed to this...

    • Hmm 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, Lin is scaring me already, and I should probably go back and grind rare candies in my two Reborn save files (one for Zekrom, one for Reshiram).

    And Laura's super reliant on her field, I see - well, grass types are kind of sad on their own. Glad to see she's doing well! Even if I am now dreading fighting her. So is Amaria - makes sense, really. She used a lot of underpowered mons on her field, frankly/lower-tier pokemon. So take away that advantage and she's sunk.

     

    Luna did better than I thought she would, though! Same with Radomus and Samson. And Noel didn't do as well - but at the same time, he's really consistent.

    And a thought - the reason that people probably see things as easier later in the game is because you have ways to counter the leaders by now, probably. It's likely sunken in that a fair fight, on the Leader's turf, is just going to end in disaster.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    So lessons taken out of this:

     

    1) My weakness to flying monotypes is legit. Ciel was by far the hardest for me in every run of the game, and even when playing Blaze Black 2 Skyla was the hardest for me to beat. Given Ciel's midling rank, I am definitely flying-impaired.

     

    2) The opposite is true of fighting types. Samson was a walk in the park for me despite the fact that I did not change the field in that battle, and I nearly always do.

     

    3) The less a boss relies on their terrain, the more I struggle against them. Meaning my strategy of carrying my preferred field(s) with me and setting them up behind screens is valid, and likely to be even more valid come E19. I better start grinding that Clafable to set up gravity to get rid of that New World field, so that I may set my own field up then.

     

    ...

     

    HAH!

     

    Don't worry about Lin, he says.

     

    Dear devs, this game has been a test of character.

     

    Trust me, I've found it easier to deal with job rejections after getting my ass handed to me by Ciel 60 times in a row, after all the grinding, and learning how to IV breed, and not being able to even set up a field after carefully crafting the "winning" strategy throughout the 60 hours I played the game, and ended up having to resort spamming ultra potions till that damned Togekiss ran out of PPs. Aye, I lost that battle, and then bought a win. And 5 minutes after that humiliation, Inner Focus Crobat occurred to me. And that built character. Perseverance and humility. You made me zen, you bastards.

     

    Thank you.

     

    Now f*ck off.

    • Like 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 minutes ago, Fiasom said:

    Don't worry about Lin, he says.

     

    Dear devs, this game has been a test of character.

     

    Trust me, I've found it easier to deal with job rejections after getting my ass handed to me by Ciel 60 times in a row, after all the grinding, and learning how to IV breed, and not being able to even set up a field after carefully crafting the "winning" strategy throughout the 60 hours I played the game, and ended up having to resort spamming ultra potions till that damned Togekiss ran out of PPs. Aye, I lost that battle, and then bought a win. And 5 minutes after that humiliation, Inner Focus Crobat occurred to me. And that built character. Perseverance and humility. You made zen, you bastards.

     

    Thank you.

     

    Now f*ck off.

    #justrebornthings

    ...but in all seriousness i feel your pain so much. i struggled with serra so bad cause i couldn't break her field and barely managed to scrape by it.

     

    only to find that i had a jaw fossil in my bag, which would have given me a tyrantrum with access to stealth rocks and EQ with a couple rare candies (with common candies to bring it back to level cap).

     

    also found a synthetic seed, and in the mirror field, the seed boosts evasion by two stages.

     

    the amount of learning i got from that was life-changing.

    • Like 2
    • Hmm 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'm not afraid of a 100% win rate, trainer. Honestly, hell is she challenging better for me. However, I realize need to change my team, build around Blazekin as well as complemented the move set around her mons.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guys remember, Marcello said that Lin had a 99.7% win rate which he rounded so we still have a 0.3% (it's not a lot but it is something) chance of actually winning

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 hours ago, CrystalStar said:

    Guys remember, Marcello said that Lin had a 99.7% win rate which he rounded so we still have a 0.3% (it's not a lot but it is something) chance of actually winning

     


    Not quite. The statistic means that if you randomly choose the team of any enemy you have to fight at some point in the game, and then you play like the AI the Lin fight on Lin’s terms, you have a ~0.3% chance to win (although this looks like it could be sensitive to RNG). 
     

    But apparently players are expected to do better than the AI and they can bring their own teams. So that statistic does not really apply. 
     

     

    Speaking of analysis, here’s a question I was wondering about: are the trainers that beat the “best Leaders/E4 on their fields” the same each time or do they change significantly (or are there too little of them to actually change)? 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 11/2/2021 at 6:07 PM, Marcello said:

    Did we change the earlygame story a bit for E19 so they are no longer Gym Leaders because we all decided we really didn't like the contrived excuses to not give you a badge? Also yes.

    I wonder how the storyline will be changed regarding this, e.g. Corey's [spoiler], Aya's introduction and Kiki.

    On 11/2/2021 at 6:07 PM, Marcello said:

    Adrienn is powerful. Xe doesn't always come to mind as one of the game's most difficult gym leaders,

    I actually found xem to be the 2nd hardest out of all of them when I played 3 years ago. After many dozens of failed attempts with my main team (didn't have a good counter to Fairy types), I caught the event Beldum at Lv1 and trained it up all the way to a Lv80 Metagross just so I could beat xem. My top 3 hardest gym leaders were Shelly/Adrienn/Charlotte or maybe Titania. Luna was the easiest because my strong Infernape was good against her (still took 3 attempts). I found the gauntlets at Fiore Mansion and the Glass Workstation to be the hardest battles overall.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 hours ago, Rendolf said:

    Oh god I didn't want to click the bottom one because I knew exactly what it was gonna say, but I just had to see.

     

    Also I'm a little sad to hear that Corey and Kiki won't be gym leaders anymore (especially Corey since being a new leader is a big part of Aya's character, I can see how you can make it work for Kiki pretty well) but I'm sure you guys will make it all work nicely and make sense for the story.

    Following up on my other comment, I agree on Kiki, her role in the story as Sensei isn't really connected to her being a Gym Leader, they could even keep the battle with her as a requirement for the TM without it being a Gym battle. Samson's story isn't introduced until much later, and his vague background wouldn't really be affected by retconning him as having been part of Agate Circus from the beginning, instead of only having joined after Kiki's [spoiler]. As for Corey, story wise, I think it would take some more major changes to retcon him out of being a Gym Leader canonically. I think a much simpler and more consistent solution would be to have him still be a Gym Leader canonically, but have him refuse/not battle the player before [redacted]. Eliminating the battle with him would get rid of having to explain away not getting the badge without significantly affecting his or Aya's story otherwise. They could even keep the gym puzzle and sequence, and just have him ask you to follow him to the bridge when you get to him, without you battling him first.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well if you call this unproductive, then thank you for being so unproductive. I had an absolute blast reading this! Would genuinely love to see the whole spreadsheet

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    47 minutes ago, Shadow Angel said:

    As for Corey, story wise, I think it would take some more major changes to retcon him out of being a Gym Leader canonically. I think a much simpler and more consistent solution would be to have him still be a Gym Leader canonically, but have him refuse/not battle the player before [redacted]. Eliminating the battle with him would get rid of having to explain away not getting the badge without significantly affecting his or Aya's story otherwise. They could even keep the gym puzzle and sequence, and just have him ask you to follow him to the bridge when you get to him, without you battling him first.

    I do hope that his gym battle is still gonna take place, because as far as I remember his battle is the only major one that takes place on the Corrosive / Corrosive Mist Field. My speculation is that his battle will be restyled into a Meteor boss battle at the gym, and the disgraceful uncovering will take place in the gym instead of next to the Pulse machine. The subsequent event can happen like in the original script.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 hours ago, Marcello said:
    On 11/3/2021 at 1:06 AM, HelpMiiPlease said:

     

    Listen, I'm not gonna say that's the exact set her Hydreigon runs. But I'm also not gonna say that's NOT the exact set her Hydreigon runs.


    252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse ((640 BP) which is x4 BP for the field boost) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shuckle: 261-307 (106.9 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

     

    i fuckin hope that’s not the exact set her Hydreigon runs

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    That reminds me of something chasa posted earlier this year on discord only theirs list had elo ratings instead of winrate, unaltered lvls and ofc no E19 content. Iirc Solaris hit 1st place everywhere so him being in the 32nd position on this list is pretty good.

     

    Postgame consisting mostly of illegal bullshit shenanigans is everything I could've ever hoped for. Really excited to see how accurate are those juicy winrates.

     

    Ngl you got me good with Amaria. I'm a bit surprised to see Amy as the one that relies the most on her field because of how her own field can mess her up. I assume she used her stronger (megas) team variant?

     

    Also congrats to @Noivy for being the #1fairdoublebattle randome generic Victory Road trainer.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, Logan_the_balalaika said:

     

    Ngl you got me good with Amaria. I'm a bit surprised to see Amy as the one that relies the most on her field because of how her own field can mess her up.

    There aren't that many electric types that get around the speed penalty from her field, and all her teams have either two electric immunities or one immunity and two electric-neutral mons, so given that the NPC teams aren't directly targeting her weaknesses and the AI probably doesn't do as much as a player would to preserve counters when they do exist, the overall downside of her field is pretty small.  On the other hand, big speed and damage buffs + conditionally shutting down most physical attackers is a ton of upside, and the benefits affect a lot more teams than the weaknesses do.

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I assumed at first that the Double Battle stats would be slightly inflated for significant trainers because they'd have a relative advantage against all the fights with only 1 Pokemon, but I guess that wouldn't be true because a) they should generally already beat all the regular trainers with one mon if everything's set to 100 and b) there just aren't very many illegal/bullshit fights with only one Pokemon and often the whole point of them is that they have a strategy that either steamrolls you or gets steamrolled

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    ......Noel is one of the 'most universally experienced difficulty spikes in the game'? I don't think he's ever beaten me, or even come particularly close...he fights on a field that isn't particularly advantageous to his team, and normal types are kinda easy to dunk on.

    This isn't meant to be a #HumbleBrag or something, to be clear, because Marcello also says he has always found Aya really easy and she fucking DESTROYS me. It's interesting how different people's experiences can be!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    13 hours ago, HelpMiiPlease said:


    252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse ((640 BP) which is x4 BP for the field boost) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shuckle: 261-307 (106.9 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

     

    i fuckin hope that’s not the exact set her Hydreigon runs

    252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (640 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Blissey: 396-466 (55.4 - 65.2%)

     

    There's still hope. Fickle hope, but still. Hope you like tossing.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 hours ago, nguyengiangoc said:

    I do hope that his gym battle is still gonna take place, because as far as I remember his battle is the only major one that takes place on the Corrosive / Corrosive Mist Field. My speculation is that his battle will be restyled into a Meteor boss battle at the gym, and the disgraceful uncovering will take place in the gym instead of next to the Pulse machine. The subsequent event can happen like in the original script.

    Yeah I saw someone on the Discord suggest to still have the battle, and just have it not as a gym battle. That would make a lot of sense

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, laggless01 said:

    252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (640 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Blissey: 396-466 (55.4 - 65.2%)

     

    There's still hope. Fickle hope, but still. Hope you like tossing.


    252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (640 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 592-697 (82.9 - 97.6%) Hey you can tank it consistently  even without AV…

     

     unless it’s +spatk then 252+ SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (640 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 649-765 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO. But chansey doesn’t even need full investment to tank it 252+ SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (640 BP) vs. 116 HP / 140+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 568-669 (84.7 - 99.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 hours ago, Djiini said:

    ......Noel is one of the 'most universally experienced difficulty spikes in the game'? I don't think he's ever beaten me, or even come particularly close...he fights on a field that isn't particularly advantageous to his team, and normal types are kinda easy to dunk on.

    This isn't meant to be a #HumbleBrag or something, to be clear, because Marcello also says he has always found Aya really easy and she fucking DESTROYS me. It's interesting how different people's experiences can be!

     

    I completely understands what you mean with that. Honestly, i havent had too much trouble with Noel, mostly because of his 'all around team', but do you know with whom did i have a LOT of trouble? Charlotte and Amaria. These 2 gave me such a trouble! Mostly because im more into physical attacker (Amaria made me rethink that) and specially Charlotte with her multi hitting moves. So yeah, its more related to how do they exploit your team weaknessess.

     

    Still, i cant wait to play it from scratch all over again

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I just wanna point out how Serra's fieldless doubles winrate is very similar to her fieldless singles, despite not being a doubles trainer, just because of the sheer power of Aurora Veil

     

    Also this is one of the best posts I've ever seen but... just out of curiosity, which were some of the coolest upsets in the tournament?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    As someone who regularly played Reju's Intense Mode, I had the biggest smile on my face looking through this.

    Reborn's always felt not-as-severe as Intense, but I'm certainly looking forward to testing my mettle against the invincible Lin.

     

    The problem with Dark-types is the lack of immune Pokemon, of course, but... Sturdy + Metal Burst should do the job nicely enough to get rid of that nuclear bomb of a Hydreigon even if I can't figure anything else out.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    so if I were to say cheese the saphira and lin fights with a destiny bond speed boost mega sharpedo, would this be a new kind of bullshit way to win these fights?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    6 hours ago, Shogun said:

    so if I were to say cheese the saphira and lin fights with a destiny bond speed boost mega sharpedo, would this be a new kind of bullshit way to win these fights?

    Lin fight probably won't be able to be cheesed that way, assuming it takes place on the new world field.  Field halves speed of grounded pokemon, so even with the +1 from speed boost, mega sharpedo is likely slower than most of Lin's team.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, R.B said:

    Lin fight probably won't be able to be cheesed that way, assuming it takes place on the new world field.  Field halves speed of grounded pokemon, so even with the +1 from speed boost, mega sharpedo is likely slower than most of Lin's team.  

     

    Five Protect/Destiny Bond Speed Boost Sharpedo holding Air Balloon each. Then 1v1 whatever she sends last.

     

    If someone wants to cheese, there is always a way. Even if I'm more curious about non-cheese strategies that the community will find.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 hours ago, Vinc2612 said:

     

    Five Protect/Destiny Bond Speed Boost Sharpedo holding Air Balloon each. Then 1v1 whatever she sends last.

     

    If someone wants to cheese, there is always a way. Even if I'm more curious about non-cheese strategies that the community will find.

    In Rejuvenation V13, you can't use cheese moves like Destiny Bond in designated "boss" fights. Perhaps that could be implemented here?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 hours ago, Shadow Angel said:

    In Rejuvenation V13, you can't use cheese moves like Destiny Bond in designated "boss" fights. Perhaps that could be implemented here?

    Talking about Rejuvenation, is that the last episode?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    22 hours ago, SpenceMcFence said:

    Where did Ame (if she actually has a team) place on this list btw?

    Ame doesn't have a team we've ever faced in-game. We know she has an Alolan Ninetales from Episode 16, and it's possible to find an Absol who apparently used to have her as its trainer, but that's it.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    BRO THIS IS SUPER COOL! I love seeing stuff like this. Though it does make me curious, out of the 8 ( not counting Lin with her terrifying 100% win rate ) trainers who beat Saphira, did any of them beat ALL the gym leaders and or E4? I think it would be pretty wild/poetic if Lin was the ONLY in game trainer who could actually beat the Reborn League. I'm also curious where Ame's Dev team placed in the rankings. Since Lia was #1, I'd like to think Ame was #2, but I'd still like to know if you don't mind sharing. Also I think it would be pretty cool if, after Ep19 ( so we don't get spoiled on, like, who the E4 are and whatnot ) you posted the spreadsheets, so we could see exactly who beat who. This might've been " unproductive ", but it's super fun, and it got me even more terrified hyped for Ep19. Thanks for everything and keep up the great work.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.