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  • Battle Tower V1.0


    andracass

    holy shit it's done

    like we haven't bugtested it yet so there's probably some kinks to work out

    but gosh.

    been working on this thing for five months

    oh, right, post. sorry. *ahem

     

    hi there i am cass and today i'd like to tell you about how i built a tower.

    it is a long story. 

    (editor's note: so there's basically two parts to this- there's the story part where I talk about the development of the tower, and there's the part where I talk about the tower itself and what exactly you get to do in it. i am very worried that the first part is boring. thus, i would like to direct those who want to get to the good stuff down to where I say "it's time for the good stuff". there are some line breaks near it. you can find it. i believe in you.)

    you may recall my original Postgame Announcement where I said this: "this FITE will include a Battle Tower- style system. i'd be more specific about it but, uh, we, kinda, sorta, maybe, uh, like, y'know, don't....know what we're doing for it?" 

    you see, this was around the time that i was finishing off some of the theme team and boss rush trainers and had taken exactly one glance into the default essentials implementation to see what exactly it was that I had to work with.

    now, there are a lot of files that define pokemon sets and trainers for various battle tower rulesets. there's, like, the fancy cup, the pika cup, the little cup, the pokecup. no one cares about those, though. the Big files are bttrainers and btpokemon. bttrainers is what defines the actual people that you fight. btpokemon is what defines the pokemon that they use. each trainer has a list of sets that they can pull from btpokemon- for example, default trainer zero is defined to pull from sets 0-65.

    this probably all sounds pretty fine so far, right? well.

    the first set from btpokemon is this:

    SUNKERN;LAXINCENSE;RELAXED;HP,SA;MEGADRAIN,HELPINGHAND,SUNNYDAY,LIGHTSCREEN

    you might notice a few issues.

    the first is that there's not a great way to define forms and abilities.

    the second is that a lax incense is kind of an annoying cheese item. 

    the third is that it's a fucking sunkern.

    sunkern.

    this is not a one-off thing. sets 11 and 12 are:

    SILCOON;LAXINCENSE;BASHFUL;HP,SD;HARDEN,,,
    CASCOON;LAXINCENSE;BASHFUL;HP,SD;HARDEN,,,

    has anyone ever woken up in the morning and thought "hello yes I am a Real Person and I definitely want to fight a Silcoon and a Cascoon"

    no.

    now, the default sets are organized roughly in order of difficulty. so, sure, you might assume, the lower sets are horrifically disgustingly bad, but they must get better eventually! there are 882 sets, after all!

    well, here's set 854:

    DRAGONITE;CHESTOBERRY;ADAMANT;HP,DEF,SD;HYPERBEAM,THUNDERWAVE,DRAGONDANCE,REST
    first of all, this set is kind of silly. who uses hyperbeam as an actual serious move? let alone the only way to deal damage. but then, you see dragon dance. dragon dance is a good move, right? boosts attack and speed! great for sweeping!

    but the only attacking move is Hyper Beam, which is a special attack. so dragon dance doesn't even help!

    but then.

    the realization hits.

    it doesn't work now.

    but it used to.

    because all of these movesets

    are for gen 3

    irl pic of me upon realizing this:

    p64T1nw.jpg

    like omg it's like these were made out of pure, concentrated, ass.

    so even if we were okay with godawful pokemon, the mechanical changes since gen 3 limits the sets so severely that even the hardest sets would be a cakewalk. that'd be unacceptable for any game, but y'all are playing reborn. y'all have beaten shelly. you're here for a challenge. you do not want to fight a dragonite that uses fucking hyper beam.

    thus, btpokemon had to be remade from scratch.

    so i sat down. for months. going through pokemon by pokemon, moveset by moveset. it was grueling. i've almost memorized every single pokemon's smogon tier. eventually i had to enlist the help of ame's patreon so i didn't die under the monotony of the whole thing. they cranked out ~500 sets which, combined with 1000+ that I had written, reached a total of almost 1600 sets. and these sets are good. I cut a lot of sets that were really similar to each other, there aren't any sets that use bullshit items like bright powder or quick claw, and there aren't any sets that just kind of sit there and harden until they get killed. these sets are made to kill you and kill you good. and, honestly? it's probably still on the lower end of what we could put out. there's probably more creative sets, especially towards the end, that i just missed out of exhaustion. i could've probably drawn from a wider pool of items. hell, we don't even have z-moves and megas implemented. (hey, that's why this is v1.0, y'know.) 

    but 1600 is a lot. if a trainer could pick any set with the only limitation being that you can't pick the same species twice, you would have 203,114,206,600 ways to fight that trainer. and yes, that trainer does exist! it's a clown.

    if each trainer was allowed to have four pokemon, the number of possibilities would increase to over 160 trillionTRILLION. gosh, look at all of that content.

    speaking of content: trainers.

    the original trainer system, as i mentioned earlier, draws sets based on their line number in the PBS. this is a good method for picking and choosing your sets very specifically. however, it has a pretty key flaw. as I mentioned earlier, we could easily put out more sets. and i definitely plan to. but if we do, where would we put them? want to organize by difficulty? sorry, fucko. the moment you change a single line, you have to change every line after that for every trainer. it's a goddamn nightmare. to fix this, Nerd Captain Marc of the Cello wrote up some scripts to change how trainers drew set from by line number to by pokemon species.

    and it was a miracle.

    now, all the trainers from before were coded for sets made in gen 3, and we have massively expanded the set list from there. constructing sets based around individual trainers would have taken a lot of decision making on each individual pokemon they should be able to use. in order to make set creation easier, i extracted some data from btpokemon. i grabbed the number, species, types, total number of sets, and added a value for the relative difficulty of every single pokemon on the list and threw it all in a spreadsheet. i added some checks to eliminate pokemon of certain types, and used the sheet to manipulate the list into only spitting out pokemon that matched certain types and only pokemon of a certain difficulty level.

    after this i could whip out trainer sets like they were nothing

    see this trainer here?

    unknown.png

    had to type in six words and click maybe 10 things and boom. four lines of pokemon.

    there's still a few problems with this method. it doesn't really play nicely with alolan forms with completely different types. if i make a mistake somewhere on the spreadsheet, i have to correct it 20 times. the difficulty could probably be stratified a little better. but, like, this is still definitely the preferred way to have to remake 300 trainers.

    next time this will absolutely be handled by a script. i'll just have to plug in some types and difficulties and boom. every trainer completed while i sit and play more three houses. what a good game.

     

    so. it's time for the good stuff.

     

    you, dear player, will find the battle tower on the upper level of the nightclub. it's a little more like a battle arena than a battle tower, but, y'know, details.

    currently, the tower is only setup for singles. the sets are specialized for singles, the scripts function with singles, and we really have no idea how well anything works with doubles. it's ok, that's why this is v1.0.

    but it's okay because boom:

    unknown.png

    it's an actual arena and not just some fuckin floor of a tower. we got seats. we got colors.

    and we got

     

    bosses.

    (also please excuse the text we're still working on it)

    that's right, kids. every seventh battler is not a randomly generated trainer, but a precoded, randomly chosen boss.

    i won't spoil the list of bosses for you. 

    but you saw which one i fought up there, right?

    we live in a world where they are in the boss list.

    anything can happen.

     

    ...well, not anything. 

    there are simply some toys you just aren't allowed to bring into the battle tower:

    • pokemon with a base stat of 671 or higher
    • kyogre and groudon 
    • mega evolutions
    • z-crystals
    • terrain change abilities
    • the ability power construct
    • the ability beast boost

    other things are cool though. feel free to bring marshadow in with you. idc.

    you'll also have the option to fight with or without fields. fields would be randomly generated with each trainer, throwing yet another layer of RNG into the mix. we understand you might not be into that. so we won't make you deal with it.

     

    ...so imma be honest here, i've spent so much time on the battle tower and on pokemon and on bosses and on trainers and on this post that i literally don't know what to talk about anymore. so the rest of this post is just going to be an ongoing Q & A. feel free to drop a question in the comments! i'll respond there too, and then copy my answer into here. i'll also add in questions and answers that i think of along the way.

     

    Q & A:

     

    Q: Cass, do you plan to add in Gen 8 when it comes out?
    A:  fuck no. i am not redoing all of this because some new move came out and fucking broke everything. 

     

    Q: Okay, sure, but would you consider adding minor things like moveset changes?

    A: so our current position is that, for all intents and purposes, gen 8 will have no impact on the gameplay at all. only doing a partial implementation of the new mechanics and movesets would be confusing to players since you'd never know if something was included or not, and a complete implementation would add a lot of work to e19. and, like, i'm sure y'all actually wanna play this some day. it also gives a slight advantage to the pokemon that are in swsh over the ones that aren't.

    so, y'know, maybe when the gen 4 remakes come out and they have all the pokemon in it. kinda like in the GBA days.

     

    Q: Madame Meganium is a boss!? Gosh, who else are you going to have there!?

    A: mr bigglesworth

     

    Q: Which Patreon submission made you groan the loudest, but you still put it in?
    A: toss up between

    MUK;BLACKSLUDGE;CALM;HP,SD;MINIMIZE,MEANLOOK,MUDSLAP,TOXIC;0;2

    and 

    LAPRAS;CHESTOBERRY;CALM;HP,SD;SHEERCOLD,FISSURE,HORNDRILL,REST;0;1
     

    Q: Are y'all gonna incorporate items or some other kinda rewards into the battle tower?

    A: you bet we are. we just...haven't gotten that far into thinking about it yet.

     

    Q: Does Madame Meganium's ownership of other Pokémon count as slavery?

    A: no. they are a team united behind the common cause of kicking your ass.

     

    Q: Aside from battle tower, battle factory is probably my favorite format in the battle frontier so will that ever be implemented considering all the new sets you created?

    A: so i mentioned that it took a lot of work to get the battle tower functioning despite the basic framework being there.

    battle factory does not even have a framework to start off with.

    we also think it'd be cool

    but it'd be so much additional work that it's not really worthwhile.

     

    Q: Just so I'm absolutely clear on restrictions, the Mega-Z Ring is pretty much disabled during Battle Tower matches for BOTH the player AND the AI correct? Meaning no Mega Evolution for either side and no Z-Moves for either side?

    A: okay, this is a good question and i should've said this earlier: z-crystals and megas do not work with team generation. they are banned for you mainly because they aren't an option for the generated trainers.

    Q: I know it will take still a lot of time but will there be a lvl cap for the pokemon for example 50 or 100? 

    A: both of those will be the level cap.

     

    Q: Will it only be 6vs6 or will we be able to choose the number of pokemon we want to battle against for example 3vs3?

    A: the battles will also be 3v3 only since a.) making the battles too long would make the climb to get to a boss significantly more difficult, and b.) if we did 6v6 i'd feel legally obligated to tell you how many combinations there were- and the 4v4 calculation literally took an entire day. 6v6 would take three years to calculate.

    Q: Why does Madame Meganium wear specs?

    A: madame meganium is a professional who requires glasses to read small print.

     

    Q: Also, what how can a tower/arena fit on top of such a smol building?

    A: it goes down instead of up. it's like an inverse tower.

     

    Q: How did you manage to get bosses added in? 

    A: Script Maniac Nerdcello whipped out some cool new methods to get that shit up and running.

     

    Q: What kind of things will we get from the battle tower?
    A: good things. like that stuff earlier in the game where you were all like "man i so wish i had more of those" yeah well you're gonna get more of those k

     

    Q: Are the battle tower bosses only fightable in the battle tower?
    A: yes. 

    Edited by andracass

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    Just now, smeargletail said:

    will people get their wills crushed by rng?

     

    Also happy for you Cass hope you partied after this whole ordeal.

     

    god i hope so

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    Quote

    pokemon with a base stat of 671 or higher

    Does this include mega forms BST?

     

    Which patreon sbumitted set made you groan the loudest and yet you still put it in?

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    13 minutes ago, Aegisth said:

    Does this include mega forms BST?

     

    Which patreon sbumitted set made you groan the loudest and yet you still put it in?

    megas are banned 😕

     

    and:
    MUK;BLACKSLUDGE;CALM;HP,SD;MINIMIZE,MEANLOOK,MUDSLAP,TOXIC;0;2

     

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    2 minutes ago, HippoSheep said:

    Watch as Sapphira's dragonite has hyper beam and they make some adjustments to her field and it tears us a new one 🙂

    no

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    Haha, wow, that Muk do... this is amazing and y'all are amazing. 

    Sorry if this has been said somewhere and I missed it, but are y'all gonna incorporate items or some other kinda rewards into the battle tower, or since this is the postgame it just about testing our skillz? 

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    so megas and z-moves are not okay but marshadow  jirachi and shaymin-sky are?  i feel this whole banning thing needs to be looked at a bit more.

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    21 minutes ago, Dante52 said:

    Sorry if this has been said somewhere and I missed it, but are y'all gonna incorporate items or some other kinda rewards into the battle tower, or since this is the postgame it just about testing our skillz? 

    we haven't even gotten there yet, but there'll be rewards. 

    5 minutes ago, DemICE said:

    so megas and z-moves are not okay but marshadow  jirachi and shaymin-sky are?  i feel this whole banning thing needs to be looked at a bit more.

    this is less of a balancing issue and more of an implementation issue.

    it's why i say it's not a thing in this version.

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    1 minute ago, Winter said:

    Does Madame Meganium's ownership of other Pokémon count as slavery?

    they would be friends battling with each other and meganium would be a coach

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    wow this is extremely impressive! i have super fond memories of emerald's battle frontier as a wee lad so am definitely looking forward to this. aside from battle tower, battle factory is probably my favorite format in the battle frontier so will that ever be implemented considering all the new sets you created? i don't want to put anymore work on your plate than you already have but it would be cool if that would be possible in the foreseeable future, though i am unsure the exact scope in which that would comprise of.

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    Just so I'm absolutely clear on restrictions, the Mega-Z Ring is pretty much disabled during Battle Tower matches for BOTH the player AND the AI correct? Meaning no Mega Evolution for either side and no Z-Moves for either side?

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    Nice cant wait for it.

    I know it will take still a lot of time but will there be a lvl cap for the pokemon for example 50 or 100? Will it only be 6vs6 or will we be able to choose the number of pokemon we want to battle against for example 3vs3?

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    Why does Madame Meganium wear specs? Also, what how can a tower/arena fit on top of such a smol building?

    congo on completing the framework of da Battle Tower that will ultimately lead to the demise of every single Reborn player 

     

     

     

     

    Edited by Lorane2234
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    8 hours ago, Winter said:

    Does Madame Meganium's ownership of other Pokémon count as slavery?

    no. they are united behind the common cause of kicking your ass.

    6 hours ago, bloo123 said:

     aside from battle tower, battle factory is probably my favorite format in the battle frontier so will that ever be implemented considering all the new sets you created?

    so i mentioned that it took a lot of work to get the battle tower functioning despite the basic framework being there.

    battle factory does not even have a framework to start off with.

    we also think it'd be cool

    but it'd be so much additional work that it's not really worthwhile.

    4 hours ago, Shuyin178 said:

    Just so I'm absolutely clear on restrictions, the Mega-Z Ring is pretty much disabled during Battle Tower matches for BOTH the player AND the AI correct? Meaning no Mega Evolution for either side and no Z-Moves for either side?

    okay, this is a good question and i should've said this earlier: z-crystals and megas do not work with team generation. they are banned for you mainly because they aren't an option for the generated trainers.

     

    2 hours ago, Mia789 said:

    Nice cant wait for it.

    I know it will take still a lot of time but will there be a lvl cap for the pokemon for example 50 or 100? Will it only be 6vs6 or will we be able to choose the number of pokemon we want to battle against for example 3vs3?

    level cap is 50 or 100. the battles will also be 3v3 only since a.) making the battles too long would make the climb to get to a boss significantly more difficult, and b.) if we did 6v6 i'd feel legally obligated to tell you how many combinations there were- and the 4v4 calculation literally took an entire day. 6v6 would take three years to calculate.

     

    1 hour ago, Lorane2234 said:

    Why does Madame Meganium wear specs? Also, what how can a tower/arena fit on top of such a smol building?

    madame meganium is a professional who requires glasses to read small print.

    and the tower goes down. it's like an inverse tower.

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    You said you're not adding Gen 8, but what about 9 & 10 when they come out? /s Seriously though, THANK YOU for all the incredibly hard/tedious work you and the rest of the dev team are putting into this phenomenal game. We all appreciate the hell out of it! 

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    I have 2 questions regarding the rewards:

     

    Question 1:

    Are players obtaining something like battle points for winning, which they can exchange for the rewards they like, or willl you use some other system?

     

    You know, like Battle Tower, Battle Resort, Battle Tree (or whatever) would do in the official games....

     

    Question 2:

    Will Choice Scarf, Choice Band and Choice Specs be among the items you can obtain as a reward?

     

    Would be nice if you could put those 3 items on the list of rewards.

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    "you, dear player, will find the battle tower on the upper level of the nightclub. "

     

    But the tower goes down?

     

    If it starts on the upper level, then we better be able to see level 2 from the first floor 😜

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    The post game just keep looking better and better!

    Thank you, and everyone else working on the game for putting so much hard work into it!

     

    Now to wait patiently until the time finally comes where my soul can be completely decimated by a battle tower once again...

    The excitement is real 😃

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    Hmmm...I suppose what I would suggest as rewards is stuff people normally would spend hours to grind for anyways. That was the general idea for the OG battle tower but it was flawed as they only had vitamins which only went so high. Towers are generally given the purpose of easy grinding and the postgame is doomed to be grind heavy...I think you see where I'm going.

     

    Now the real question I have is if the bosses are going to be tower exclusive. I assume so but I am asking just in case.

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    1 hour ago, Commander said:

    Hmmm...I suppose what I would suggest as rewards is stuff people normally would spend hours to grind for anyways. That was the general idea for the OG battle tower but it was flawed as they only had vitamins which only went so high. Towers are generally given the purpose of easy grinding and the postgame is doomed to be grind heavy...I think you see where I'm going.

     

    Now the real question I have is if the bosses are going to be tower exclusive. I assume so but I am asking just in case.

    You could give for example packs of Wings (e.g. 40x Genius Wings, 128x Muscle Wings...) as initial rewards. That should help a bit. Basically items that help finetunig EV's or aid in breeding initially, and perhaps the higher-up bosses could give items like the Red Orb?

     

    You could even start a quest through there for Mega Ray, by rewarding an item that (after some stuff) makes the Move Tutor able to teach Dragon Ascent to Ray. Just a suggestion, tho 😅

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    On 11/10/2019 at 1:13 AM, ShogokiX said:

    I have 2 questions regarding the rewards:

     

    Question 1:

    Are players obtaining something like battle points for winning, which they can exchange for the rewards they like, or willl you use some other system?

     

    You know, like Battle Tower, Battle Resort, Battle Tree (or whatever) would do in the official games....

     

    Question 2:

    Will Choice Scarf, Choice Band and Choice Specs be among the items you can obtain as a reward?

     

    Would be nice if you could put those 3 items on the list of rewards.

    1. uhhhh that's a great question. I think we'll do something like the point system? but right now it's hard to say for certain. 

    usually how this goes is that we start working on something and think of stuff along the way.

    2. yup. expect assloads of stuff like that.

    12 hours ago, Commander said:

    Hmmm...I suppose what I would suggest as rewards is stuff people normally would spend hours to grind for anyways. That was the general idea for the OG battle tower but it was flawed as they only had vitamins which only went so high. Towers are generally given the purpose of easy grinding and the postgame is doomed to be grind heavy...I think you see where I'm going.

     

    Now the real question I have is if the bosses are going to be tower exclusive. I assume so but I am asking just in case.

    yeah, they'll be tower exclusive.

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    tl;dr but couldn't you have just recycled and modified Showdown's random battle sets? Those are simple enough for the AI to use, at least with a bit of modification.

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    3 hours ago, princessyiris said:

    tl;dr but couldn't you have just recycled and modified Showdown's random battle sets? Those are simple enough for the AI to use, at least with a bit of modification.

    What if I told you that would most likely would have been more time consuming. You have to read all of those sets then convert them into a readable format to implement into the game. Showdown is kind of almost worthless for game team building imo

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    7 hours ago, princessyiris said:

    tl;dr but couldn't you have just recycled and modified Showdown's random battle sets? Those are simple enough for the AI to use, at least with a bit of modification.

    i think this comment just kicked me in the face

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    Whoever thought of that Lapras build is pure evil. Also for rewards, how about giving out Pokemon with normally unobtainable moves and abilities, like a Chimchar with Ice Punch or a Slaking with Clear Body. ANd maybe throw in some HM replacers like the Golden items in Rejuvenation

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    I can agree on the golden items as an optional set of key items so you don't have to use HM slaves. But the obvious question would be: WHERE do you put those? Or rather: HOW do you obtain them? Reborn does not have this achievent system Rejuvenation has going. I liked how Sun/Moon dealt with that, so you won't need HM slaves any more, but i didn't like the fact that some HMs were no longer available as TMs...

     

    As for Pokémon with moves or abilities they couldn't ever get otherwise: Well, there is no Ash Cap Pikachu and no Battle Bond Greninja, and for a reason i would say....So i don't think you would get some Hackmons with moves or abilities they shouldn't have.

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    Would a Polar Bear's tongue be blue if a Polar Bear could lick ice too, or would a Polar Bear be disappointed through and through because a Polar Bear's tongue wasn't blue too?

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    ARE YOU GOING TO ADD GEN 8???

     

    Just kidding. But I'm wondering: some pokemon may learn moves they previously didn't have access to. For example... (tiny swsh spoiler)

    Spoiler

    Blastoise now learns shell smash by leveling and Gothitelle now learns fake out by breeding

    Those moves would be added to the learnset of the pokemon?

     

    And another question: has gen 8 happened for what concerns the story? Like you know cameos, or just mentions like Steven in Reborn now. Or even side quests who knows but I don't think so

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    For the Golden Items idea (or whatever she wants to call it) they can just be given to us after some tough battles in the Battle Tower. Or maybe bought for AP

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    10 hours ago, fireflame said:

    For the Golden Items idea (or whatever she wants to call it) they can just be given to us after some tough battles in the Battle Tower. Or maybe bought for AP

    there'll already be the easy hms password option, so that'll make this somewhat redundant.

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    12 minutes ago, andracass said:

    there'll already be the easy hms password option, so that'll make this somewhat redundant.

    Yeah, about those passwords, there is one question i have, or rather a suggestion i want to make.

     

    As far as i get it from Ame's post about those passwords you can only enter those when starting a new game, and the only one you can disable is nuzlocke, after you lose that is.

    So here is my question/suggestion:

    Would it be possible to add an NPC to the Grand Hall where you can enable new passwords, or disable currently used passwords at will? Of course this needs to work only for passwords that don't change the game too much. "hardcap" and "easyhms" for example should easily be able to be activated or deactivated at any point during the game. "monotype" and "randomizer" for example would be passwords you can't activate or deactivate after you started the game, because they change the game too much.

     

    Would be nice if you told me how you feel about this idea.

    Edited by ShogokiX

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    On 11/15/2019 at 5:47 AM, Lorisaur said:

    ARE YOU GOING TO ADD GEN 8???

     

    Just kidding. But I'm wondering: some pokemon may learn moves they previously didn't have access to. For example... (tiny swsh spoiler)

      Reveal hidden contents

    Blastoise now learns shell smash by leveling and Gothitelle now learns fake out by breeding

    Those moves would be added to the learnset of the pokemon?

     

    And another question: has gen 8 happened for what concerns the story? Like you know cameos, or just mentions like Steven in Reborn now. Or even side quests who knows but I don't think so

    oh hi sorry you also have a question

    so our current position is that, for all intents and purposes, gen 8 will not impact the mechanics at all. only doing a partial implementation of the new mechanics and movesets would be confusing to players since you'd never know if something was included or not, and a complete implementation would add a lot of work to e19. and, like, i'm sure y'all actually wanna play this some day.

    2 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

    Yeah, about those passwords, there is one question i have, or rather a suggestion i want to make.

     

    As far as i get it from Ame's post about those passwords you can only enter those when starting a new game, and the only one you can disable is nuzlocke, after you lose that is.

    So here is my question/suggestion:

    Would it be possible to add an NPC to the Grand Hall where you can enable new passwords, or disable currently used passwords at will? Of course this needs to work only for passwords that don't change the game too much. "hardcap" and "easyhms" for example should easily be able to be activated or deactivated at any point during the game. "monotype" and "randomizer" for example would be passwords you can't activate or deactivate after you started the game, because they change the game too much.

     

    Would be nice if you told me how you feel about this idea.

    so i had a similar thought right when i posted that.

    there could be a password changer in the nightclub.

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    4 hours ago, andracass said:

    so i had a similar thought right when i posted that.

    there could be a password changer in the nightclub.

    Why in the nightclub though? Isn't the nightclub supposed to be locked until you are champ? Putting that NPC into the Grand Hall (and Agathe Circus) would make much more sense, because it would allow you to enable or disable passwords at any point in the game. 

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    2 hours ago, ShogokiX said:

    Why in the nightclub though? Isn't the nightclub supposed to be locked until you are champ? Putting that NPC into the Grand Hall (and Agathe Circus) would make much more sense, because it would allow you to enable or disable passwords at any point in the game. 

    Putting the Password changer any earlier would likely ruin the point of having the challenge-based ones in the first place, where as sticking it in a postgame area instead frees up a lot of space for the player to work with in the grind-happy Battle Tower (which, for the record, frequently made people train up whole new teams just for it back in the day anyway). This seems like a reasonable move to me.

     

    At least, that's my interpretation of the situation.

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    Question:

    Why not just release the final episode? I wanna see how the story ends. The post game could be released incrementally as things develop?

     

    Comment:

    I never played any of the battle tower or its spin offs because once there are no new pokemon, story or maps to discover, the whole thing boils down to mindless grinding (which, to my horror, I have discovered is the single defining characteristic of Reborn - once you know what the story is, the amount of grinding necessary to beat the rather frequent bosses simply aint worth its time - and I have had to come to terms with giving up on replaying the game). No rewarding discovery for massive loss of time. I just wanna see how the story ends. Perhaps catch the legendaries as there seems to be some story in it, but I don't care one bit for the nightclub. I'll check it out, get my ass kicked invariably in the first battle (cause I can't be f*ed to master competitive strats) and never visit it again.

     

    Ciel was one of the hardest bosses to beat for me (till an inner focus crobat occurred to me), but beating her wasn't the high point of the game (arguably it was one of the lowest points), it was the shock of seeing Ame's head getting ripped off. What made reborn great in the first place was its story, not its difficulty. Make Reborn great again. Please?

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    7 hours ago, Fiasom said:

    Question:

    Why not just release the final episode? I wanna see how the story ends. The post game could be released incrementally as things develop?

    Just look at what happened when pokemon Uranium was released as a full game and that will answer your question

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    19 hours ago, Fiasom said:
    Question:

    Why not just release the final episode? I wanna see how the story ends. The post game could be released incrementally as things develop?

    Pretty sure the way they are doing it right now is the best way possible. It wouldn't be great if they released episode 19 early without post game and Nintendo (or whoever), just shot em down, making them take everything down. The only thing you can hope for is something to go wrong and they just release episode 19 with only the story. Unless that happens, you gotta wait for it like the rest of us.

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    On 11/20/2019 at 2:02 AM, Fiasom said:

    Question:

    Why not just release the final episode? I wanna see how the story ends. The post game could be released incrementally as things develop?

     

    Comment:

    I never played any of the battle tower or its spin offs because once there are no new pokemon, story or maps to discover, the whole thing boils down to mindless grinding (which, to my horror, I have discovered is the single defining characteristic of Reborn - once you know what the story is, the amount of grinding necessary to beat the rather frequent bosses simply aint worth its time - and I have had to come to terms with giving up on replaying the game). No rewarding discovery for massive loss of time. I just wanna see how the story ends. Perhaps catch the legendaries as there seems to be some story in it, but I don't care one bit for the nightclub. I'll check it out, get my ass kicked invariably in the first battle (cause I can't be f*ed to master competitive strats) and never visit it again.

     

    Ciel was one of the hardest bosses to beat for me (till an inner focus crobat occurred to me), but beating her wasn't the high point of the game (arguably it was one of the lowest points), it was the shock of seeing Ame's head getting ripped off. What made reborn great in the first place was its story, not its difficulty. Make Reborn great again. Please?

    They completed EP19 early because if the big N discovered Reborn they could still be able to release it quickly and hand out a "complete" game of sorts, but I think it's a good idea not to just release it and the postgame separatedly because, well, postgame also has its lore, its story and sidequests (like every legendary ever), and also places like the nightclub people might be discouraged to wait to if they already had the game up until Elite 4.

     

    Plus, yeah, the story is great, but without its difficulty Reborn wouldn't be Reborn. And it IS great.

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    I'd Like to request adding in a Battle Roulette like the one in Platinum's Battle Frontier, you can stop it whenever you want but if you get on a streak where too many positive traits then Terra shows up and flips the panel to give you a negative trait. T'would be an epic thing.

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    Would it be possible to make it so the tower's trainers can have shiny pokemon? Also, is there a secret thing that happens at the end? can you reach the bottom of the rewot (inverse Tower)? Is there a hidden boss who will kick my ass, perhaps even kick their own ass, and will do so via any means possible? Thanks for the update, I know it's still a long way off, but it's all so exciting!

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    4 hours ago, Med Down said:

    Is there a hidden boss who will kick my ass, perhaps even kick their own ass, and will do so via any means possible?

    yes

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    Ooh, nice. It's cool that Pokemon Essentials gives you the scaffolding for something like this, even if the provided sets are... questionable. One question that I thought of while reading this:

     

    You definitely plan to have rewards, and I remember an earlier post of yours mentioned that you planned on having them be nice. To that, do you plan on having some of the rewards be one-off for the first time then something more generic and repeatable (like Candies) after? For example, there's still a glaring amount of TMs that simply aren't in the game (Ice Beam pls), and I imagine you'd want them all to be available in some way eventually. Of course, if they're just all going to be found in the copious amount of Legendary quests that could also work. There might also be some other cool items to put there, but I'm not creative today.

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    5 hours ago, Shadowsoftime99 said:

    Ooh, nice. It's cool that Pokemon Essentials gives you the scaffolding for something like this, even if the provided sets are... questionable.

    so this is a bold statement. 

    the thing about essentials is that it barely works. when it works, it tends not to work well. captain marc of the cello has really duct taped the system together, i had to add in some functionality so that we could customize forms and abilities, there's just these massive chunks of code in base essentials that literally does nothing...

    it's like trying to build an amusement park from a swingset.

    5 hours ago, Shadowsoftime99 said:

    You definitely plan to have rewards, and I remember an earlier post of yours mentioned that you planned on having them be nice. To that, do you plan on having some of the rewards be one-off for the first time then something more generic and repeatable (like Candies) after? For example, there's still a glaring amount of TMs that simply aren't in the game (Ice Beam pls), and I imagine you'd want them all to be available in some way eventually. Of course, if they're just all going to be found in the copious amount of Legendary quests that could also work. There might also be some other cool items to put there, but I'm not creative today.

    all tms, zmoves, and megastones will be available by the champion. don't you worry about that ice beam.

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    1 hour ago, andracass said:

    all tms, zmoves, and megastones will be available by the champion. don't you worry about that ice beam.

    My Lunatone expresses its deep gratitude for you managing to fit all of those items into before-post-game.

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    On 11/28/2019 at 5:31 AM, andracass said:

    all tms, zmoves, and megastones will be available by the champion. don't you worry about that ice beam.

    I remember that either you or Ame also said that the TMs will be shuffled around a little. This basicly means that not only will all TMs be available before fighting the champ, but you will also find them in new/different places than in EP18, or am i misunderstanding something?

     

    Does that also affect the TMs you'll get from gym leaders after defeating them?

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    My first reaction was: wow, that's really amazing work. I'm dreading it, as I've never really managed well on Battle Towers (although that's more child me speaking, I still managed quite well more lately in the PWT -- I'm realizing now I'm wayy too outmoded).

     

    My second reaction was: omg, I'm sure one feels so good (well, both good and mildly frustrated) when designing the scripts.

     

    My latest reaction is: wait, how can the computation of the number of possible teams be so ludicrously long?

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    36 minutes ago, Mindlack said:

    My latest reaction is: wait, how can the computation of the number of possible teams be so ludicrously long?

    ooh, okay, I'm all over this one.

    so: basically, each team draws from a certain pool of pokemon. say we've got six pokemon in that pool (and for simplicity, say they're just pokemon a,b,c,d,e, and f) and then those pokemon all have three movesets each. if you're going to fight a team that includes pokemon a, d, and f, you already have 27 different ways to fight that team given the different moveset combinations. on top of that, there are 20 different possible combinations for a three pokemon team of the six pokemon. so, in total, just from this situation alone, there's 540 combinations of teams.

     

    this calculation is basically a little bit messier for all of the pokemon in the bttrainers file, but there's basically a script that just runs through every combination of pokemon on a team, and then all the different movesets for the pokemon on those teams.

    Now, if you're making three mom teams, the calculation doesn't take too long, but if you're making four mom teams...

    there's, uh, 1,471,429,260 combos.

    and then they all have to get added together.

    takes a while.

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    10 hours ago, andracass said:

    ooh, okay, I'm all over this one.

    so: basically, each team draws from a certain pool of pokemon. say we've got six pokemon in that pool (and for simplicity, say they're just pokemon a,b,c,d,e, and f) and then those pokemon all have three movesets each. if you're going to fight a team that includes pokemon a, d, and f, you already have 27 different ways to fight that team given the different moveset combinations. on top of that, there are 20 different possible combinations for a three pokemon team of the six pokemon. so, in total, just from this situation alone, there's 540 combinations of teams.

     

    this calculation is basically a little bit messier for all of the pokemon in the bttrainers file, but there's basically a script that just runs through every combination of pokemon on a team, and then all the different movesets for the pokemon on those teams.

    Now, if you're making three mom teams, the calculation doesn't take too long, but if you're making four mom teams...

    there's, uh, 1,471,429,260 combos.

    and then they all have to get added together.

    takes a while.


     

    Right. I can see that iterating through combinations of 6 Pokemon among 432 takes a long while... 

     

    But I don’t think that you actually need this ludicrously huge iteration. You could just say that, given a specific Pokemon (let’s call it Toxapex), the number of possible 6-mon teams is: ( number of possible 6-mon teams without Toxapex) + ( number of allowed sets for Toxapex ) * (number of 5-mon teams without Toxapex). So you could compute the number recursively, in time proportional to the number of Pokemon. 

     

    Of course, the method is rather crude and would require sophistication if some Pokemon, or (more complicated) movesets were programmed to never appear together. Given how thorough the dev team seems, it looks quite possible. But I think there would be a way to still manage the recursion. 
     

     

    BTW, I’m probably missing something but I can’t understand your 200 billion figure for 3-mon teams. Indeed, a rash estimate (taking 2000 sets without restrictions) gives “only” 2000^3=8 billion possible teams. So what is the factor I didn’t take into account? 

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  • E19-Main Scoreboard


    Mapping - #################### | 100%

    Eventing - #################### | 100%

    Story ------ #################### | 100%


    Total ------ #################### | 100%


    E19-Post Scoreboard

     

    Cresselia - ###̳̓###########̳̓###### | 100%

    Regis ------#################### | 100%

    Dogs ------- #################### | 100%

    Spirits ----- #########̖̳̇̌########### | 100%

    Birds ------- #################### | 100%

    Genies ----- #################### | 25%

    Mapping - #################### | 70%

    Eventing - #################### | 5%

    Story ------ #################### | 0%

    Musketeers - ################## | 100%

    Mapping - #################### | 100%

    Eventing#################### | 100%

    Story ------ #################### | 100%

    Regigigas - #################### | 12%

    Mapping - #################### | 35%

    Eventing - #################### | 0%

    Story ------ #################### | 0%

    Celebi ------ #################### | 0%

    Meloetta -- #################### | 0%

    Victini ------ #################### | 0%

    Volcanion - #################### | 0%

    Hoopa ----- #################### | 0%

    Zeraora ---- #################### | 0%

    Magearna - #################### | 0%

    Jirachi ------ #################### | 0%

    Tapus ------ #################### | 0%

    Diancie --- #################### | 0%

    Heatran -- #################### | 0%

    Genesect - #################### | 0%

    Lati@s ----- #################### | 0%

    Manaphy- #################### | 0%

    Darkrai --- #################### | 0%

    Marshadow - ################## | 0%

    Shaymin -- #################### | 0%

    Mew? ------ #################### | 0%

    Dialga/Palkia - #################| 0%

    Groudon/Kyogre - ############## | 0%

    Lugia/Ho-oh - ################# | 0%

    Tau Trio --- #################### | 0%

    Xerneas/Yveltal - ############### | 0%

    Lunala/Solgaleo - ############### | 0%

    Deoxys ----- #################### | 0%

    Giratina --- #################### | 0%

    Rayquaza - #################### | 0%

    Zygarde- #################### | 0%

    Necrozma- #################### | 0%

    Mewtwo- #################### | 0%

    Arceus

    M#̵̤̪̰̺́̑̊̿̽ppping - #̧̠̋̈#̳̓#̮̜̘̤͈̑̽̋̕̚#̵̨̤̪̰̺̳́̑̊̿̽#̵́̑#̞̿̏̾͟͢#̱͡##͉͈̆̐̽͜#̲̤̗̃͛̈́͘͜͜͡#̢̝͍͉̍̐̍͊͘͢#̨̖̳̭͔̇̄͒́͋#̡̫̃̿̕͟#X###̞̿̏̾͟͢## | ?%

    tnevE? - #C###̞̿̏̾͟͢##nO########Y#### | H%

    StoR

     

    Legendary Quest Subtotal:

    ######################### |13%


    General ----- #################### | 75%

    Boss Rush ---#################### | 90%

    Theme ------- #################### | 85%

    FITE etc. ----- #################### | 75%

    Fwends -------- #################### | 0%

     

    Nightclub Subtotal:

    ######################### | 65%


    Animations - #################### | 66

    Bug Score --- 360

    Misc. --------- #################### | 645%

    Difficulties -- ########## | 3100/4200

    grunts remaining: <40?


    EPISODE 19 TOTAL:

    ######################̖̳̇̌#####################̖̳̇̌#########################################################| 48%

    current estimated release date: ask ur mom lol


    dark is, like, half  60% done

    (updated 2/19)

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