V13 Discussion Thread

[MhicKy]

(I ain't dead, just lurking)

I had this idea for a while but never actually posted here but what if we had a "balanced" setting were every Pokemon encountered, both wild and trained, would always have 31 IVs in all stats?
It's just my opinion but I think IVs are a massive waste of time.. I get the existence of EVs and Nature since they can dictate a Pokemon's build, EVs have a maximum limit in total and for each status which makes proper distribution important and Natures have both a pro and a con so choosing a Nature that would benefit a Pokemon without hindering them is a must but IVs are just dumb since you can get a Pokemon with 31 IVs in everything anyway, there's no limit, there's no pros and cons, you can just get everything perfect anyways it just takes a long a** time..

I just realized that I probably spent half the time I played this game just hatching eggs to get that Pokemon I needed just to clear one gym leader and never use it ever again (*cof cof* Steelix *cof cof*).. I feel like this is a must specially for games like Rejuvenation and Reborn were changing team composition depending on the gym leader is a common thing.

If anyone is up to making a mod like this that would be great too!

Edited December 26, 2020 by MhicKy

[ArcBolt27]

i mean there's a place in GDC  iirc that can do that for you but i can agree that an option would be nice especially for those that dont want to wait that long

[Matt.]

Regarding the mechanism by which players change their difficulty level: currently, players get one free change, and every change after costs a couple shards. After a certain point in the game, the player loses their ability to change their difficulty level (excluding Debug, but you know what I mean). 

 

Is there an overall benefit to this system over giving the player more freedom, or even ultimate freedom, i.e. allowing them to change their difficulty level for free nearly whenever they want (or just when they're in a Pokemon Center)? This is what I want to discuss, and I'm not sure that the answer is yes. 

 

It seems the main arguments for the current system are that we don't want to make things too easy for or spoil the player, we want the player to choose their difficulty level wisely and experience the consequences of their decisions, and by taking the difficulty changing mechanism away after a certain point, we want the player to stick with the difficulty level they chose and challenge them to complete the rest of the game that way. And I completely understand these arguments - I enjoy doing restrictive challenge runs and playing intentionally difficult games, and there definitely is such a thing as giving too much to the player.

 

It may be more helpful to look at the reverse question. Suppose that this whole time, players could change their difficulty level whenever they wanted for free, and this was the norm that everyone was used to. Then suppose that you asked everyone, "Would Rejuvenation be a better game if after your first change, you had to pay for it, and after a certain point you couldn't change your difficulty level anymore?" I suspect most people would say no. Of course, this is natural as obviously people don't like having capabilities taken from them, but isn't the ultimate goal to maximize playerbase enjoyment?

 

The motivation for this is that players quitting the game out of difficulty-related frustration is not ideal. Of course, you can't (and probably even shouldn't) cater to everyone. But would the player be hurt by being given additional freedom in changing their difficulty? I don't think so. If they wanted to challenge themselves, they would just not change their difficulty level. And is a player who never changes their difficulty hurt by other people having more freedom to change their difficulty? Again, I don't think so. 

 

Curious to see what others think about this subject. Regardless, thanks to the devs for all of the hard work - Rejuvenation is a fantastic game and I'm looking forward to V13! 

[MhicKy]

I wouldn't put this in the same category as difficulty since I just wish there was an option to disregard IVs..

Like I said above, I think they are a dumb waste of time.. Like, you could play whichever difficulty you want with or without the "balance setting" (THe name I used it) and I can guarantee you most people would use that setting if it was a thing, no one likes to waste hours to get that perfect IV pokemon just to have a shot at a gym and never use that pokemon ever again.. I had a couple like that, I said as a joke "*cof cof* Steelix *cof cof*" because I just used him ONCE at the FLying Gym and never bothered to use him ever again yet spent hours building him for the single purpose of changing the field in the very first turn, that was all..

Whether Jan decides to do this thing or not is up to him, it's his game and I am not imposing this but I wish someone out there made a mod for this in case he decides to rule against this idea, the only way is to use debug mode which I feel uncomfortable with.. This would also make Nuzlock more viable since the pokemons you catch on each route would already be up for competitive.

Edited December 28, 2020 by MhicKy

[SadMoney]

I wonder how level up movepools will be affected in V13. 

 

Most of the Gen8 movepools are bare bones, and lacking without TMs or RMs whatever you call them

[DBA]

3 hours ago, SadMoney said:

I wonder how level up movepools will be affected in V13. 

 

Most of the Gen8 movepools are bare bones, and lacking without TMs or RMs whatever you call them

They'll probably just add moves to the movepools. I doubt they'll remove any moves.

[MhicKy]

15 hours ago, DBA said:

They'll probably just add moves to the movepools. I doubt they'll remove any moves.

Yeah I think that's how they will do it, Gen8 is "meh" at best not only on movepools so..

[SadMoney]

I think the difficulty is fine the way it is

 

Theres 3 modes. Free switching between modes is just stupid. You already have multiple opportunities to figure out what you can handle throughout the game

 

[Ravi Kabir]

4 hours ago, SadMoney said:

I think the difficulty is fine the way it is

 

Theres 3 modes. Free switching between modes is just stupid. You already have multiple opportunities to figure out what you can handle throughout the game

 

Agreed

[Ravi Kabir]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:11 AM, MhicKy said:

f anyone is up to making a mod like this that would be great too!

Pretty sure you can edit a pokemon's stats (Evs, ivs, nature, levels, moves) using the debug menu.

[SadMoney]

I don't mind IV's. If you pick your strategy well, they become irrelevant. If you are really nitpicky, you can spend hours grinding up a pokemon if you wish.

 

Usually in a playthrough like this, you will have 12-20 pokemon on your squad trained up to handle any event. Get creative, dont just grind.

[MhicKy]

10 hours ago, Ravi Kabir said:

Pretty sure you can edit a pokemon's stats (Evs, ivs, nature, levels, moves) using the debug menu.

Well I said there that I feel uncomfortable using debug mode so yeah.. I usually play like that so I don't waste my time grinding eggs.. Also the debug mode is still kinda outdated.. I can only find the ones for V11 and it has some problems and crashes at some points, picking the Seviper Egg on Venam's Gym is an example of those..

 

9 hours ago, SadMoney said:

I don't mind IV's. If you pick your strategy well, they become irrelevant. If you are really nitpicky, you can spend hours grinding up a pokemon if you wish.

 

Usually in a playthrough like this, you will have 12-20 pokemon on your squad trained up to handle any event. Get creative, dont just grind.

IVs are irrelevant to begin with.. Since you can get ur Pokemon to have all of them on 31 without penalties or limits then it's just a massive waste of time.. Also, try getting through with a team with 0 IVs and see how irrelevant they are.. They do give a massive edge when it comes down to it.. Here, just as an example, a the Speed of a Lv100 Lucario with 0 IVs is 203 Speed while a 31 IVs is 306 according to Serebii.net, that is a MASSIVE difference but, in the end, it's just pointless grind for a better Pokemon.. Nature has balances and EVs have limits so they are fine in my books, specially since I always tend to have a Nidoking, a Pokemon that has both a S.Attacker and P.Attacker builds based on Nature and EVs distributed.

[SadMoney]

That's not how IVs work. 

 

The difference between a pokemon with 0 IVs in speed and 31 IVs in speed is exactly 31 at lvl 100.

 

You probably soft reset or catch 5-10 of each pokemon on your team to get decent IVs. That should take 5 mins tops. You should end up with 15 IVs in each stat on average. So that stat difference between a perfect IV pokemon will be miniscule for the majority of the game.

[MhicKy]

9 minutes ago, SadMoney said:

That's not how IVs work. 

 

The difference between a pokemon with 0 IVs in speed and 31 IVs in speed is exactly 31 at lvl 100.

 

You probably soft reset or catch 5-10 of each pokemon on your team to get decent IVs. That should take 5 mins tops. You should end up with 15 IVs in each stat on average. So that stat difference between a perfect IV pokemon will be miniscule for the majority of the game.

Hmm.. Maybe I was looking at EV calculations then.. It still is a pointless thing tho'.. And a 31 points difference is still a big thing..

Edited January 20, 2021 by MhicKy

[wcv]

16 hours ago, MhicKy said:

I can only find the ones for V11 and it has some problems and crashes at some points, picking the Seviper Egg on Venam's Gym is an example of those..

I don't think one exists. You can turn it on, but it requires being able to edit the scripts of the game. Also, turning on debug mode that way currently causes an issue where if you soft reset the game it will corrupt your data file and you have to unpack it again. I wouldn't really recommend it unless you specifically want to set up specific runs or similar. And even then its probably easier to ask someone to trade you an alternative starter or whatever.

 

The big point of IVs aren't final stats, since outside of an outright competitive environment like Showdown (where you can just set all of this anyway), the only real use for IVs is your Hidden Power typing. Which means that for a physical attacker they're basically irrelevant. And hidden power in Rejuvenation just cares if the value is odd or even, not what it is (this is untrue is Pokemon Reborn which uses the old formula). So long as you aren't just actively using say a physical attacker with 0 Attack and Speed IVs there's pretty much no difference. I tend to aim for somewhere over 15 in every relevant stat for Pokemon I'm not going to use hidden power on. Going higher will technically give you a more powerful Pokemon, but the difference is miniscule. Because of that, the actual play difference between a party of absolutely perfect Pokemon and one you are likely to catch (again, so long as you don't just go with the worst IVs you can find) isn't really significant.

 

My general point is that making IVs always be 31 wouldn't really change much, but would have the downside of making hidden power pretty much completely useless outside of a Pokemon that really wants Hidden Power Fairy. Or the entire Hidden Power mechanic would need to be overhauled.

 

 

[Ravi Kabir]

6 hours ago, wcv said:

I don't think one exists. You can turn it on, but it requires being able to edit the scripts of the game. Also, turning on debug mode that way currently causes an issue where if you soft reset the game it will corrupt your data file and you have to unpack it again. I wouldn't really recommend it unless you specifically want to set up specific runs or similar. And even then its probably easier to ask someone to trade you an alternative starter or whatever.

Soft resetting does indeed crash the game and requires you to reinstall the game, but i've never had my save files corrupt. Also, there's online trading in this game? Thats kinda dope, how do I access it?

[Nocturne93]

23 minutes ago, Ravi Kabir said:

Soft resetting does indeed crash the game and requires you to reinstall the game, but i've never had my save files corrupt. Also, there's online trading in this game? Thats kinda dope, how do I access it?

Online trading is available in Reborn, not in Rejuvenation sadly. I think Jan also mentioned trading/online functions won't be a part of Rejuvenation. 

[wcv]

1 hour ago, Ravi Kabir said:

i've never had my save files corrupt.

I was just talking about the game itself.

 

41 minutes ago, Nocturne93 said:

Online trading is available in Reborn, not in Rejuvenation sadly. I think Jan also mentioned trading/online functions won't be a part of Rejuvenation. 

Ah. I'll admit I never use online features, so had just thought there was.

[MhicKy]

Either way..
There's also the issue if the debug mode will even work on v13.. In Reborn they changed the engine already in order to fix battle animations and compatibility with MAC and such so I assume Jan will do the same for v13 which means that the v11 debug mode might not work anymore anyways.. 

In this topic, I also don't like how the other EV training rooms are locked via keycards with the AP system.. Usually I spend a good chunk of time in the beginning just running around to completed Tired Feet achievement and battling Pokemons that give the EV I need to farm the Tall Grass Battle achievement just so I can get, at least, the Attack or S.Attack Room Keycard but at this point I am nitpicking since I am glad there's at least a easy way to farm EVs in Rejuv..

[Alisae]

To my knowledge, Jan doesn't want the debug mode to honestly exist tbh. If it doesn't work honestly its not his problem.

[MhicKy]

1 hour ago, Alisae said:

To my knowledge, Jan doesn't want the debug mode to honestly exist tbh. If it doesn't work honestly its not his problem.

I know, hence why I was asking if anyone could make a mod to disregard IVs (or place every pokemon's IV to 31 by default) because I know Jan doesn't like people using debug mode, I myself feel uncomfortable using it but I do so I don't need to spend hours running back and forth in front of the daycare.. If all I needed to worry about was Nature and Ability that would cut a massive amoiunt of time.. 

I am not putting this on the shoulder of Jan, I know he doesn't want people using debug mode and I am not going to demand one from him, if I could I would make this mod myself but I no idea how to code so my only option is pleading someone that knows to do it for me "pretty please?" style.

[Baumina]

So, I couldn't help but be a bit shocked when I saw that the sidequests progress-bar vanished from the progress board.

Does anyone know, what happened?

 

[Reginald Sanshire]

23 minutes ago, Baumina said:

So, I couldn't help but be a bit shocked when I saw that the sidequests progress-bar vanished from the progress board.

Does anyone know, what happened?

 

Jan and the dev team decided to split V13 into two releases, with the second release being "additional content", including almost all of the new sidequests.

 

That may be why.

[Baumina]

Ah, that's a relief, thank you very much!

[MhicKy]

And even tho' he decided to split the content, v13 is still going to be the biggest version so far, just to put in perspective how massive this big boy is..

I believe the versions after it will be completed faster since this one had to include Gen8.. Assuming GameFreak doesn't add yet another DLC to SnS and add more Pokemons that is.. (I really hate SnS tho')