Theory Crafting Thread

[JK’S]

I just want to quote the light & dark prophecies again, and give my own theories on them.

 

Light Prophecy: 

“With death there is also life.
With life there is also death.

On darkest day, on the darkest night, tragedy shall befall the Earth.

All those caught in the lord’s shadow shall be drained and destroyed.

The world can be brought to peace again with four lights not born of man.

They shall preserve and save the land, and break down the establishment to single layer of sand.

Light shall once again be restored to the world. Prosperity and peace shall mesh in one giant swirl.

And the land shall be guided by a new light, the strongest of the four lights.

To rid this world of everlasting evil and blight.”

 

Dark Prophecy:

”With life there is also death.

With death there is also light.

On the darkest day of humanity, the world shall shake, houses will burn, people will be killed.

The land shall shift, and innocent beings shall fall between the crevices.

Four darknesses born from man shall reign supreme and create a world in their own likeness.

The balance of life and death shall be shattered. The balance between light and dark shall tip.

Snuffed out and destroyed forever. A world born out of hatred, evil, jealousy and prejudice.

Disaster shall be the only known hope in the creation of yet another world”

-These are straight from the hidden library.

 

Now, first off, let’s eliminate the fact that the MC doesn’t fall into this prophecy. Purely because they fall outside the boundaries of fate, which goes against the goal of the prophecy itself, to predict fate.

 

The 4 lights can obviously be thought to Melia, Erin, Allen and Alice. But c’mon now. This is Jan we’re talking about. It might be too obvious but let’s not eliminate the possibility.

 

I think the 4 lights could refer to characters we haven’t met yet in the story, because the only people not born of man I can think of are: (sorry if I get their names wrong) Aelita, Nymiera, Indriad ( I definitely forgot someone haven’t I?), but anyways besides those 7 characters I can’t think of anyone else, I don’t think it’s Maria/Marianette, because it’s stated many times that anathea is her mother, but the link between Melia and Maria can put that into confusion.

So my possible lights are: Aelita and Nymeria (we haven’t confirmed what happened to her after hiyoshi city, but it’s obvious she must be alive (or reincarnated, wink wink Alexandra) because she said we will meet her again, and 2 unknown characters, but again the possibility of the archtype siblings can’t be eliminated.

 

As for the darkness prophecy, what comes into my head is: Madame X, Indriaid, Crescent. I can’t think of a another possible one atm, but let me state I don’t think it’s Ren, even thought Madame X hinted that it might be him, because he still hasn’t fully aligned himself with Team Xen, and unless something major happens to him,I doubt he will.

Madame X is obvious I know, but I only think of her due to the undercity prophecy we get from the guru. I don’t have the quote sadly, but I can roughly guess which characters will be fighting.

If I remember correctly it says The MC, A girl with a soul as bright as Arceus’ light, One who fights for a lost loved one , and another one I can’t remember. We will fight against a women who wants to ensure that every life on the planet doesn’t past on, on top of castle unlike any other. I mean, c’mon, this is obviously referring to Madame X, but then again it’s really obvious. And we also can’t forgot that the Madame X on elycisa pyramid is different to the one we’ve met before. It isn’t confirmed but you can infer from her actions and dialogue she’s a little different. Indriad is one of them for obvious reasons, he’s already tried to destroy Aveium with his ‘Gift’. But what I want to know, is why hasn’t he tried to doing it again with Angie after fusing with her. He must already know that his gift didn’t work out as planned (R.I.P Vivian, we will always love you) so he can’t do it again? 
I think he might work with all the other darknesses to destroy Aevium and the world, but in what way I don’t know.

 

Now for crescent. I have no evidence to specify state that she’s 100% a darkness, but she’s always telling us to abandon our friends, obviously for her own personal goal, but after what Freya tells us, I think she might be being manipulated by Freya maybe, or being controlled. Sure, you can say that she’s in Nightmare city so she’s still alive, but to be fair Zetta is also there, and we all know what happened to him. So we can’t confirm that Crescent is 100% alive and well, but she’s too interesting of a character for her to die, so I doubt she’s dead, but she still might be being held captive or controlled by Freya, leading her to be a darkness maybe. That’s what I think anyways. 
 

Also another question I have, we know that Aevium had a calamity. But what type of calamity was it? But that I mean, what type of natural disaster, it’s called Storm-9 but I doubt a storm can spilt landmasses, so they’re must’ve been earthquakes or tsunami involved as well right?

 

[Supersneasel7]

Where was it stated that Indrad fused with Angie?

[JK’S]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:42 AM, Supersneasel7 said:

Where was it stated that Indrad fused with Angie?

There was a cutscene in the Church in Theolia a while after you beat Angie in Kristline town (I don’t remember what gym badge) but if you walked into a certain room, it was only for a couple of seconds, but you would see anju and Indriad, then Indriad ran into her, then  they fused, because Angie was there 

 

Skip to 41:42

[Tikkit]

I would like to add that Indriad can't be a darkness because he seems to be pretty heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, to be the other First Human in Nymeria's story. Meaning he wouldn't be born from man.

[JK’S]

20 hours ago, Tikkit said:

I would like to add that Indriad can't be a darkness because he seems to be pretty heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, to be the other First Human in Nymeria's story. Meaning he wouldn't be born from man.

There’s a good point I forgot about, I guess it can’t be Indriad. There is something I’d like to point out though regarding the darknesses. We are actually told the quality or type of darkness they are going to be at Blacksteeple Tower. If you talk to the Absol statue outside the Hidden Grove, it says:

”The shadows that shade the earth shall be known in the end.”

”The one of raw evil, the one of obsession, the one of betrayal, and the one of greed”

“These four shall see the world be lost forever”

Any theories on who fits the descriptions?

[TheHellHamster]

My first thought for Greed would be Thomas Blakeory Sr.

 

It is clear that he is born from man and has also done some shady things in order to obtain wealth and power, such as making a deal with Indriad to have his father murdered to get his inheritance and manipulating Hazuki to get access to her fortune.

 

Not only does he crave wealth, it also seems that might be trying to hoard information as well since the Blakeorys own (or at least heavily fund) both of the libraries in Aevium and when we visit the atheneum the only reason we learn any information is because of help from both the Puppetmaster and Thomas Jr. (Information that might not even be accurate mind you, seeing as it contradicts the Archive)

[Display name]

Hazuki might have tempered him a little bit honestly blakeory jr is the real jerk he probably is greed but nt in the monetary sense but a sense of rank prestige and power

[Tikkit]

I'm gonna have to nominate Ren for betrayal still. Regardless of his motives and regardless of whether he still wants it, he is pretty much a permanent member of Team Xen. Unless Madame X didn't take the precaution of putting the mark that allows her to snap someone out of existence on the one member of her organization who embodies betrayal.

[TheHellHamster]

For Raw Evil we know that it can't be Indriad, but what about his children? Specifically I'm talking about Geara and Melanie. These are the only two characters who have we have never seen care about anybody, even Indriad cared about Anathea and Madame X at least seems to believe that they are the greater good, but these two? They are pure evil.

 

Regarding Melanies 'born from man' status personally I think that she does, in fact, have biological parents, seeing as Maria is Indriad's and Anathea's daughter and come on, there has to be some connection between the archetype siblings and Maria and she even call out to 'Father' before summoning Yveltal (So probably Indriad)

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheHellHamster

[Tikkit]

The one problem I have with Melanie being it is that... She's pretty much permanently incapacitated. You can't really have her as this big bad ending the world when she's stuck inside of Melia's head.

[TheHellHamster]

Melanie has already been shown to be able manipulate Melia's emotions with Nim, so perhaps overlapping isn't a one-and-done thing. So even if you win the first mind battle, if you at any point have a weaker psyche than someone overlapped with you, maybe they can take control back?

 

Either way, the fact that they even bothered to show Melanie again makes me think that they are going to do something whether that be from inside Melia's head or not.

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheHellHamster

[Supersneasel7]

I feel like the darkness of betrayal is Nim/Lorna, since she betrayed her friends and even turned some of them to stone. Ren isn't really evil, just misguided, though I guess you can say the same for Nim. They were both manipulated by Crescent, yet Nim has done more evil things than Ren. The only problem I see with Nim being the darkness is that Damien claims she isn't human, and even calls her an "it", implying she is something akin to a demon. 

[TheHellHamster]

Maybe Betrayal could be Crescent. After all, she is the one who caused both Ren and Nim to betray us and has repeatedly tried to get us to abandon our friends. She also committed an act of betrayal herself when she left the Stormchasers.

 

For obsession, the only person I can think of besides Karen (A side quest character so probably not her) would be Angie, but I'm not too sure about that one.

Edited January 25, 2021 by TheHellHamster

[sparsyle]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:29 AM, \/agrant said:

doubt they knew that the mc was the interceptor

 

also: based off WLL, taelia has a strong reaction to nihilego, claiming (either her or cera) that it was the thing she saw "that day"

 

if "that day" is storm-9, does it mean nihilego caused s-9?

in which case could the:

- time traveling duo have been allied with indriad since then (in support of i forgot who's theory here)

- time traveling "duo" have more people (so it's not red haired/kieran only, which could make sense since they're connected to ultra beasts)

although i suppose a few questions turn up immediately, like how would vivian's blessing stop nihilego?

 

Spoiler

I do think that Nihilego was involved in Storm-9. When exploring the Badlands, and as you get further north in Hiyoshi City and closer towards the Ecylsia Pyramid, it is pointed out that it looks like the stone statues of people are "running from something." Since bombs are generally instantaneous, it wouldn't really make sense for them all to be running from that imo, and I think that if they were running from Nihilego it would really tie in the flashback Taelia had in WLL. 

 

My personal theory about the time travelling duo stems from what Erin said in Blakeory Athenaeum:

There were three things that stuck out to me while reading. The incident at the plant was caused by 10 individuals. All died at the site. Eight of them were unidentifiable, but for some strange reason, the ninth and tenth ones were. The ninth person was a woman named Freya. She was part of the International Police, and was discovered to be the reason the plant went under. Other than those two bits of information, I couldn’t find anything else on her.

 

A lot of people have been speculating that the red-haired girl is Freya. This kinda comes from Saki's story about the door in Aquamarine Cave.

Oh yeah after I got thrown off the boat I was found by this red-haired girl named, um... Actually, she never told me her name. We were able to find the door to this place, but then she disappeared... But then shortly after she appeared again, but she was in a totally different outfit! Then we were attacked by this huge blue whale and she was BAM and the whale was like ‘stop pls’ ... After she beat up the blue whale, she walked up to me in a kinda bitchy way. She said something like ‘Remember this name, Fre... Frey... Freid...’? Well, I forgot.

Saki's description matches up with her in both appearance and behavior. 

 

So what does this mean? I feel like the time traveling duo, Freya and Kieran, are part of the International Police, or at least were originally. This would explain their matching uniform-like outfits. It's possible that they have teamed up with Madame X in order to oppose Indriad's plan somehow. However, I think it is possible that they come from another dimension, the future (possibly another bad one), or are somehow related to the Garufan Civilization.

aside: While I originally thought that they might literally be from the Garufan Civlization (since they've been proved to be pretty high-tech), that theory was invalidated by the fact that Freya and Kieran don't fully understand the purpose behind the Eclysia Pyramid.

However, coming from the same time would match up with the fact that they both speak with weird sayings and use words that a lot of the characters can't relate to (i.e. Kieran explaining to Huey what an arc is).

 

I don't think that they are completely affiliated with Team Xen, however. While they appeared to be teaming up with Madame X in the latest chapter, previously Kieran had referred to Ren's Xen Uniform as "disgraceful" (back in Hiyoshi City). So I'm not entirely sure that they're fully allied as opposed to happening to have the same goals/intentions back at Eclysia, and working together in order to achieve them. Or Kieran was just fcking with Ren, that's also possible.

 

The other question is, why would Freya want "the maiden of reincarnation" dead (or at least, without a soul)? Perhaps, if she was a part of the International Police, she was attempting to assassinate her for crimes against time / human nature, or being dangerously powerful? It's still unclear. 

 

[\/agrant]

12 hours ago, sparsyle said:

 

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I do think that Nihilego was involved in Storm-9. When exploring the Badlands, and as you get further north in Hiyoshi City and closer towards the Ecylsia Pyramid, it is pointed out that it looks like the stone statues of people are "running from something." Since bombs are generally instantaneous, it wouldn't really make sense for them all to be running from that imo, and I think that if they were running from Nihilego it would really tie in the flashback Taelia had in WLL. 

 

My personal theory about the time travelling duo stems from what Erin said in Blakeory Athenaeum:

There were three things that stuck out to me while reading. The incident at the plant was caused by 10 individuals. All died at the site. Eight of them were unidentifiable, but for some strange reason, the ninth and tenth ones were. The ninth person was a woman named Freya. She was part of the International Police, and was discovered to be the reason the plant went under. Other than those two bits of information, I couldn’t find anything else on her.

 

A lot of people have been speculating that the red-haired girl is Freya. This kinda comes from Saki's story about the door in Aquamarine Cave.

Oh yeah after I got thrown off the boat I was found by this red-haired girl named, um... Actually, she never told me her name. We were able to find the door to this place, but then she disappeared... But then shortly after she appeared again, but she was in a totally different outfit! Then we were attacked by this huge blue whale and she was BAM and the whale was like ‘stop pls’ ... After she beat up the blue whale, she walked up to me in a kinda bitchy way. She said something like ‘Remember this name, Fre... Frey... Freid...’? Well, I forgot.

Saki's description matches up with her in both appearance and behavior. 

 

So what does this mean? I feel like the time traveling duo, Freya and Kieran, are part of the International Police, or at least were originally. This would explain their matching uniform-like outfits. It's possible that they have teamed up with Madame X in order to oppose Indriad's plan somehow. However, I think it is possible that they come from another dimension, the future (possibly another bad one), or are somehow related to the Garufan Civilization.

aside: While I originally thought that they might literally be from the Garufan Civlization (since they've been proved to be pretty high-tech), that theory was invalidated by the fact that Freya and Kieran don't fully understand the purpose behind the Eclysia Pyramid.

However, coming from the same time would match up with the fact that they both speak with weird sayings and use words that a lot of the characters can't relate to (i.e. Kieran explaining to Huey what an arc is).

 

I don't think that they are completely affiliated with Team Xen, however. While they appeared to be teaming up with Madame X in the latest chapter, previously Kieran had referred to Ren's Xen Uniform as "disgraceful" (back in Hiyoshi City). So I'm not entirely sure that they're fully allied as opposed to happening to have the same goals/intentions back at Eclysia, and working together in order to achieve them. Or Kieran was just fcking with Ren, that's also possible.

 

The other question is, why would Freya want "the maiden of reincarnation" dead (or at least, without a soul)? Perhaps, if she was a part of the International Police, she was attempting to assassinate her for crimes against time / human nature, or being dangerously powerful? It's still unclear. 

 

red haired time traveler (still don't feel like calling her freya lol) didn't want the maiden of reincarnation dead, her objective was to open amethyst cave. all the actions after that were to fuck with keta's mind, but taelia wasn't being targeted by her

[0 SPD Slowpoke]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:21 AM, nam23 said:

well damn you pull no punches

 

You certainly gives good argument for that old theory(it has never been a bad one but it sounds so easy it could be a red herring)

 

 

 

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When melia recollect having seen venam in the bad future before awakening her power, madame x makes a sarcasm about how it must be the power of friendship or similar crap

 

But then later when melia remember that comment she mocks it because madame x cannot see that her relationship with venam is more than friendship.If madame x was venam she would know that

 

But it s not a theory shattering point because

1) a melia turned madame x may not want to out herself

2)it s possible the madame x persona was made from a version of melia who doesn't know venam, or who never developped their relationship to romantic, or who never realized she liked women

 

 

Well yeah, poor Indriad was just trying to enjoy a nice day in his mansion and then Venam, of all the awful people, breaks into his house in the sewer to harass him. It's easy to see how Indriad would see the creation of humanity as a mistake just from looking at the main cast.

 

It also feels obvious that Madame X is a Melia without the PoWeR oF FrIeNdsHiP, which is probably part of why she's lost the power of the Archetype. Madame X talks about Amber as a 'brat in this timeline too' like she knew her personally enough to be annoyed by her, so in this timeline Melia probably acted like a normal human would to the antics of her 'friends' and abandoned them to eventually become Madame X.

[sparsyle]

7 hours ago, \/agrant said:

red haired time traveler (still don't feel like calling her freya lol) didn't want the maiden of reincarnation dead, her objective was to open amethyst cave. all the actions after that were to fuck with keta's mind, but taelia wasn't being targeted by her

 

Wasn't she the one who pushed Taelia and Nora off of the cliff?

[TheHellHamster]

Just now, sparsyle said:

 

Wasn't she the one who pushed Taelia and Nora off of the cliff?

That may be true but none of what she was doing there was actually done with that end goal in mind. I think she just saw an opportunity to further destroy Keta and so she took it.

[TheHellHamster]

So there is a theory that ever since her hospitalization, Risa Raider has been being impersonated by the Red Haired Time Traveler (Whom we shall refer to as 'Red') using her Beheeyem. The evidence to support this is that Risa was both able to suddenly recover from a terminal condition, and when fighting Aelita in Zone Zero, her Tuff Puff uses the stats and moveset of a Naganadel, one of Red's signiture pokemon.

 

However, I have one issue with theory, and that is that during ANA's sidequest we visit Pokestar Studios and encounter Risa. Yet, if she really were Red using Beheeyem then surely it shouldn't have affected ANA, as she is a robot.

 

It could be argued that perhaps ANA really did see Red there but didn't realise that she wasn't Risa as they have never met before. However, that wouldn't explain her encounters with Ren at Zone Zero while he is using his robot body. You might say that maybe Ren is still vulnerable since his consciousness is still in his robot body, however, I disagree, Beheeyem's pokedex entrie from Pokemon White states: 'It uses psychic power to control an opponent's brain and tamper with its memories'. This clearly shows that Beheeyem requires access to the target's brain in order to manipulate their memories, meaning that Ren should be unaffected.

[Display name]

Red's name is freya iirc

[TheHellHamster]

1 hour ago, Display name said:

Red's name is freya iirc

While that is very likely, I'm refraining from calling her that (outside of theories attempting to prove that it's her name) until we have actual confirmation.

[Display name]

oh okay

[Tikkit]

Soooo, uh, what was going on with that missing mother side quest? You'd think Cassandra would have higher priorities then caring about how an offshoot of a GDC business in East Gearen is doing. Or a few kids getting free haircuts.

[Nocturne93]

14 hours ago, Tikkit said:

Soooo, uh, what was going on with that missing mother side quest? You'd think Cassandra would have higher priorities then caring about how an offshoot of a GDC business in East Gearen is doing. Or a few kids getting free haircuts.

Those kids were probably poor or from less successful/wealthy families. Cassandra and the GDC government initially had plans to create a Reject District(if I remember correctly, this is mentioned in The Underground in GDC) for all 'unsuccessful' citizens. Cassandra wants to create a superficial utopia where everything looks perfect on the outside, so she can operate as a Team Xen admin behind the scenes without any suspicion.  She probably doesn't want any bad publicity about GDC businesses. 

[JK’S]

I don’t think many people noticed it, but in the bad future, when Madame X talks to the MC & Melia about the time diamond, she says that she used it save us from ‘Indriad’s bomb’ in the past, even though his name at the point in time was Vitus. Even Nymiera calls him Vitus and she’s known him the longest. Though we already knew about it, there’s obviously a connection between these two, because besides our MC, Venam and gardevoir, no one else calls him Indriad.

 

Any thoughts?