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Theory Crafting Thread


enderowl

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On 8/25/2021 at 2:37 AM, eggon said:

My problem with those 2 characters is that they seem intended to play the role of a manipulative super powerful super knowledgeable villains, but we kinda already have that in Madame X. And sometimes the stuff that they do feel like a convenient way for the plot to progress instead of having an internal reasoning that makes sense and as a result complicates things in a way that no other plotline does imo. For example, it's suggested that Clear was the one who manipulated Nim and turned her into Lorna not Crescent. But why? They already can turn people into stone with the machine without Nim's help, or perhaps they are readying her to be the new Storm-9? But then why pose as Crescent? Not only does Nim not have any type of relationship to Crescent beforehand, Clear, either before or after, neutralized her so they didn't have much to gain by implicating her. She could've impersonated anyone else or even just wore a mask if she just wants to obfuscate the situation and it wouldn't play out that differently. This is one of those scenarios that I mentioned I felt was retconned at some point. Every other major plotline whether it's Team Xen, Garufa, Vitus, are really fun to explore for me in a way that this one just isn't because it kinda exist on it's own external to everything else except for when they are needed to manipulate some event in a certain way to create conflict.

I kinda want to talk about Crescent, since you've mentioned her in relation to Nim becoming Lorna

 

One thing that is interesting is how Crescent sends Jenner, Geara, Zetta into Nim's realm. I don't remember if it was stated whether Crescent knew the place she sent the 3 was inside Nim's realm or not, and thus in extension we don't know if she knew who/what Nim was beforehand. There actually isn't enough information to say that the Crescent who manipulated Nim into Lorna was Clear and not Crescent, even though it feels that way. 

 

And given that when MC, Aelita and Ren bump into Lorna for the first time in Zone Zero the only person who Lorna didn't want to fight and acknowledged in terms of trying  to save her in Valor Mountain was MC, which is something that the real Crescent would do. Of course this could've all happened after Crescent was knocked out on Route 7, but:

 

After the whole Valor Mt thing, you see Crescent in the Villa in Teila Resort again, who tells you she can't save you again (links with the Core, as it says there's not enough energy for another revive or something like that, and how Crescent has her lives shared with MC). The thing about this is, how would Clear and Kieran know about the Core or how the Interceptors work? There's just no way and surely the MC would be dead around that part of the story if they knew that already. So this has to be the real Crescent right? Crescent also says that she sent Adam, Valarie, Saki, Braixen, Aelita, Cella to the spiritual healer (located somewhere in GDC [Souta] ), which leads to that scene where Crescent encounters Kieran and Clear in Route 7. 

 

Of course, in the flashback, Crescent appears to fight Clear and Kieran after the Saki squad gets knocked out, so at least we know the Crescent at the villa was the real one, I think?

 

You see the cutscene of Crescent talking to Nim in Terajuma jungle after the Amber gym fight, in which Crescent "shows a bad future" of sorts to Nim and hence changes her appearance, telling her to "do something" (likely to turn specific people to stone). Of course, this stone thing is likely to power the Dream Machine, but all this time we assume the Crescent we know is on the good side.

 

The interesting part is how Crescent also has tried to manipulate Ren to join team Xen (surely this is the real Crescent, as this happens way before Clear and Kieran are even introduced). I'm not sure what her purpose was, especially since I don't see how Ren joining team Xen benefits her specifically. There is also a mention of how the Crescent Melia knew "went rogue" against the Storm Chasers at some point, which is likely her seeing the bad future where storm 9 hits Aevium (but this is never specified). If that's the case, then this sort of lines up with the same bad future she shows to Nim. 

 

Upon reading Melia's diary in the past, we can tell that Crescent wasn't "rogue" yet when Melia first joined the Storm Chasers, and that she was already sort of deceptive and ruthless, as she basically releases the Galvantula to fake Melia's death scene (this Galvantula is probably hers, as we see her throw a pokeball and Ren saying Galvantula were rare in Amethyst Cave I think).

 

This makes me to believe that Crescent is more likely on the evil side in terms of motivations (apart from not wanting to hurt MC, ofc) and that we can't definitively say that the Crescent who manipulated Nim wasn't the real deal and was just Clear. 

I know Crescent is captured and placed in the pod in the Dream machine, and says how she doesn't care about Nim and thought she was dead as soon as she fell in the lava, but this once again shows that she was somehow there to see Nim's death unfold and didn't decide to step in until after MC dies as well. 

 

We don't know Crescent's motives, and so she could easily be lying to Venam and the MC about her statements she said regarding Nim's death. 

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong about all of this as the Crescent that makes Nim Lorna in the Terajuma scene did not have her Gothitelle with her, which is something that she mostly always have out in most of her encounters from memory, so this could hint that this "Crescent" was Lorna. Idk though.

 

One other possibility is either Cosmia or Comet, but they seem to always work as a pair so its unlikely either. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

There actually isn't enough information to say that the Crescent who manipulated Nim into Lorna was Clear and not Crescent, even though it feels that way. 

Crescent said extremely directly that she was not involved in this. Considering her arrogance and overall character there is absolutely zero reason to doubt her words. It was 100% Clear. 
 

22 minutes ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

And given that when MC, Aelita and Ren bump into Lorna for the first time in Zone Zero the only person who Lorna didn't want to fight and acknowledged in terms of trying  to save her in Valor Mountain was MC, which is something that the real Crescent would do

It was just Clear's illusion, she can show visions to people very easily and manipulate truth, like she did in WLL. 
 

28 minutes ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

There is also a mention of how the Crescent Melia knew "went rogue" against the Storm Chasers at some point, which is likely her seeing the bad future where storm 9 hits Aevium (but this is never specified).

She did not went rogue "against" Storm Chasers, considering her main obsession and interest seems to be MC, either she learned how to bring us back via black box and went rogue to execute this plan, or learned that at some point Storm Chasers plan to hurt MC. 
 

31 minutes ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

This makes me to believe that Crescent is more likely on the evil side in terms of motivations

Just because she doesnt care about anyone but MC doesnt mean her motivations are anywhere evil, and she is most likely only on her and MC side. The only bad things she did were done to team Xen members, otherwise being very rude is not a crime. 


I think the Lorna sitiation is very clear, not sure if there is anything to discuss there. It's not exactly Metal Gear where Ocelot got like 15 allegiances. 

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Unrelated to the above discussions, for those who's played WLL, we see how the cloaked figure that killed Taelia and Nora was a Bisharp. Incidentally, we see Cassandra owning a Shadow Bisharp in her battle in the Pearl Route, and we now know that Deagan was given to the Hospital of Hope by Cassandra. I'm now wondering if Cassandra is helping Madame X directly, and knows about Kieran and Clear, as she knew Xara and Jean from a flashback. There is also the fact that her name isn't listed as a Team Xen Member which is kind of sus.

 

Just something interesting I wanted to point out

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32 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Crescent said extremely directly that she was not involved in this. Considering her arrogance and overall character there is absolutely zero reason to doubt her words. It was 100% Clear. 
 

It was just Clear's illusion, she can show visions to people very easily and manipulate truth, like she did in WLL. 
 

She did not went rogue "against" Storm Chasers, considering her main obsession and interest seems to be MC, either she learned how to bring us back via black box and went rogue to execute this plan, or learned that at some point Storm Chasers plan to hurt MC. 
 

Just because she doesnt care about anyone but MC doesnt mean her motivations are anywhere evil, and she is most likely only on her and MC side. The only bad things she did were done to team Xen members, otherwise being very rude is not a crime. 


I think the Lorna sitiation is very clear, not sure if there is anything to discuss there. It's not exactly Metal Gear where Ocelot got like 15 allegiances. 

ok yeah I probably overthought XD

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13 hours ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

and we now know that Deagan was given to the Hospital of Hope by Cassandra. I

I personally think she did this to make Tesla and amber suffer a bit, but there’s probably more to her doing that so I say with certainty.

 

13 hours ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

There is also the fact that her name isn't listed as a Team Xen Member which is kind of sus

This is because Cassandra is the Mayor of Grand dream City, which gives Team Xen and Madame X a lot of power, as an admin of their organisation is literally the political leader of the Capital of Aevium.

If someone like Ren (who only joined Team Xen a few months ago from where we are in the story) was able to access the database easily and could find her name, she would be put at risk. So they had to hide her identity.

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Another point I wanna bring up is Clear and Kieran. How and why do they have the power to time travel. Sure you can say Madame X can give them the time Crystal she has, but they come out of what looks like Ultra wormholes whenever they travel through time. I feel like the futuristic tech they use has something to do with.

Another random point & and fun fact: When we first meet Clear on the pyramid, correct me if I’m wrong, she said she was on a mission of a couple of days and I assume that mission was the WLL, so from her perspective, WLL happened a few hours ago?? I’m just guessing based of her interaction with Aelita when they meet.

 

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5 hours ago, JK’S said:

Another point I wanna bring up is Clear and Kieran. How and why do they have the power to time travel. Sure you can say Madame X can give them the time Crystal she has, but they come out of what looks like Ultra wormholes whenever they travel through time. I feel like the futuristic tech they use has something to do with.

Another random point & and fun fact: When we first meet Clear on the pyramid, correct me if I’m wrong, she said she was on a mission of a couple of days and I assume that mission was the WLL, so from her perspective, WLL happened a few hours ago?? I’m just guessing based of her interaction with Aelita when they meet.

 

well they can time travel so of course she can just travel to any time

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I actually have something on my mind for a long time and i havent seen any discussion about that. Unless i missed it. Who was this fake Talon from the hospital? Because we now know that ??? patient from Kanto was Deagan, who was alive at the time, and we confirmed everyone else. But then who was the patient under Talon's name with all the wrong info, and why he was in this list? 

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7 hours ago, Cyphre said:

I actually have something on my mind for a long time and i havent seen any discussion about that. Unless i missed it. Who was this fake Talon from the hospital? Because we now know that ??? patient from Kanto was Deagan, who was alive at the time, and we confirmed everyone else. But then who was the patient under Talon's name with all the wrong info, and why he was in this list? 

I actually completely forgot about talon. After everything in V12 he was kinda forgotten, with only slight mentions in v13. This is actually interesting, but I don’t think we have enough info about talon to make any sort of conclusion. All we know is that he’s the official flying gym leader, he attends axis high, and he’s good friends with Risa and Lavender.

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I don't remember if someone already talk about it, but, checking Battlers in the Graphics Folder of the game, I found that the Storm-9 we fought as Alexandra and Damien is a Xerneas's form. It's not the first time we saw Xerneas hiding something for the game:

Indeed:

-Xerneas was the Pokémon for the old logo of the game, plus the screen border and some wallpapers at the start of the application running;

-Xerneas appear as statue in Blacksteeple Castle(since V13);

-Nymiera has a statue of this mon in her house in Hiyoshi City;

-Yveltal was Madame X's Pokémon, despite she never use it from that moment and never quote it, even if she was near to be defeated in Eclypsia Pyramid. Then, this Pokémon was sent from "Father" to help Melanie in the ruined future. Maybe Nymiera is connected to Xerneas? Or maybe the Interceptor, but it's still difficult to understand if Xerneas will have a role in this game.

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On 8/27/2021 at 2:56 PM, Cyphre said:

Crescent said extremely directly that she was not involved in this. Considering her arrogance and overall character there is absolutely zero reason to doubt her words. It was 100% Clear. 
 

It was just Clear's illusion, she can show visions to people very easily and manipulate truth, like she did in WLL. 
 

She did not went rogue "against" Storm Chasers, considering her main obsession and interest seems to be MC, either she learned how to bring us back via black box and went rogue to execute this plan, or learned that at some point Storm Chasers plan to hurt MC. 
 

Just because she doesnt care about anyone but MC doesnt mean her motivations are anywhere evil, and she is most likely only on her and MC side. The only bad things she did were done to team Xen members, otherwise being very rude is not a crime. 


I think the Lorna sitiation is very clear, not sure if there is anything to discuss there. It's not exactly Metal Gear where Ocelot got like 15 allegiances. 

This is confirmed too thanks to Crescent's attitude towards MC: sometimes, like the time he/she/they died in Valor Mountain, she was like calm and not cold as ever. She implored us to stay away from the gang and dangers. The only reason why she went rogue against SC can be only something that involves us as MC. She is not evil, but only cold and rogue for some reasons that maybe we will know in future. She fights only for herself, MC and against Team Xen.

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  • 1 month later...

yeah its actually a possibility about the duo. my theory about amber and tesla place catching fire killing many people one could be some one who was dear to cassandra it might be a theory.Qns; do you know who maddie is ? its possible its madelis but confusing theory is if she is then why is she a fan of tesla and i think maddie could be someone else or at least the maddie knew venam's father

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then if she is then she should have been some kind of acquintance with tesla because venam father and tesla were friends but she is just shown as a fan of tesla.i thought cassandra and madelis were sibling or childhood friends to have some kind of grudge against tesla

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19 minutes ago, Ram Cxz 007 said:

then if she is then she should have been some kind of acquintance with tesla because venam father and tesla were friends but she is just shown as a fan of tesla.i thought cassandra and madelis were sibling or childhood friends to have some kind of grudge against tesla

Where the hell did you even get the idea someone have a grudge against Tesla or Amber?

Blakeory and von Brandt hate each other because of the misunderstanding of the true nature of a fire, Madelis is a straight up fangirl for Tesla, Kenneth was a close family friend for Tesla along with Venam's father, that's about it for relashionships between von Brandt family and others. 

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47 minutes ago, Eixenr said:

Cassandra clearly says she wants revenge over Tesla and Amber.

Don't remember where, but she says it.

I've rewatched it and yeah, that is true, my bad. She says that in her talk with Madelis when they talk about activating Xenpurgis. Been a while and it slipped my mind. 

 

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someone in goldeleaf mentioned seeing someone with black hair 

in the fire when wispy tower was burning

basically 

and only important ppl ith black hair are madame x and cassandra 

at least the ones who can reasonably do it

it could be madame x and the twist is it turns out madame x was the one who killed cassandras sig other yea

but i dont think jan would go down that route

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