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Theory Crafting Thread


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31 minutes ago, SmK said:

I finished V13 like 4 days ago, and something about Erin strucked me.

Let me explain (+ I don't know if someone already talked about it in this thread):

 

I think that some of you remember those words : "Maria, No matter what happens. Don't you dare lose hope. Don't lose who you are and don't you dare forget what's about to happen. You understand?" or something like that, those words come from Madame X during the prologue, right before Marianette gets sacrificed.

 

Well, in Erin's cold truth  (or door? don't recall the exact name, it's when Cera shows something to Erin), Erin says those exact words to Maria.

 

 

image.thumb.png.4bac69e0b7ef046e02cc129f4d97628a.png

 

And the fact that Erin and Madame X both carry a sword could confirm this ?

This is getting interesting...

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So I have a theory about relationship between Maria and Melia.

 

I feel like Melia is a wish of Maria's Archetype. We know Archetype can grant any wish and Archetype can be drained from host. Archetype was drained from Maria and was used to wish for Melia and probably as a side effect of being formed by a drained Archetype Melia got Genesis Syndrome. 

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On 8/4/2021 at 8:10 AM, Yahiro said:

So I have a theory about relationship between Maria and Melia.

 

I feel like Melia is a wish of Maria's Archetype. We know Archetype can grant any wish and Archetype can be drained from host. Archetype was drained from Maria and was used to wish for Melia and probably as a side effect of being formed by a drained Archetype Melia got Genesis Syndrome. 

If this true it would make sense, I’m like 80% Melia and Maria are NOT the same person, based on the fact Melia spent 3 years in the past, of which Maria  was very much alive and present. And yet she didn’t show any type of or signs universal deletion, because if she and Maria were the same, one of them would be deleted. 
It’s possible spacea and timepa gave Melia some sort of protection against this,but the only known method to stop universal deletion without overlapping is the time gear amulets, which Melia did not have before the bad future arc.

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7 hours ago, CandyRock said:
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yeah its possible that mc and crescent were an item in the past since crescent says in her book (school of nightmares) that she is  very jealous of Aevis's and (Aevia's?) relationship. though i am not sure what she means by that (like are they in love or?)

 

Spoiler

For more answers, I think we need to dig more into the past, to discover more truth about MC and Crescent, because we know that this is not her real name and not why se was putted in a class with only members with "A" as first letter of their names. How maybe our MC bonded with Crescent (yellow text color in game "You're my best friend, Crescent" ) and (only Intense Mode) he/she/they have a Mystical Pokémon (Aevis has Keldeo, which greatly makes sense for what he told to us in Nightmare Realm and for his behaviour). We just met our past counterpart and we got the power of the Interceptium-Z and Interceptor's form (it's like Super Saiyan) and we saw that Crescent is really important for our character's development (which I really like this fact). I hope more of this in the next version.

 

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39 minutes ago, CandyRock said:
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apparently acording to (tv tropes? i don't remember where i read this) crescent calls mc "my beloved". yeah i also want more of crescent she is such a great character. also can you redirect me to thread about mc's mythical pokemon? this is really interesting as it alludes to the mc getting that specific pokemon as a part of the story

 

Spoiler

I didn't remember the thing "my beloved" told from her...interesting...this makes sense for each time she begs (coldy, too...) MC to stay away from some dangers.

 

About characters's team...there is two and more topics about them, one is "Host Fight" just search...the other is "[SPOILERS] New teams for..."

 

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3 hours ago, S7rife said:
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I didn't remember the thing "my beloved" told from her...interesting...this makes sense for each time she begs (coldy, too...) MC to stay away from some dangers.

 

About characters's team...there is two and more topics about them, one is "Host Fight" just search...the other is "[SPOILERS] New teams for..."

 

 

Spoiler

It's something really easy to miss if you weren't paying attention, she says it when she defeats Clear and Kieran and steals the 3 black boxes. Of course at the moment I wasn't 100% sure (more like only 80% sure) if she was talking about the MC, but after seeing what she uses one of the black boxes for I think it's a safe guess to say that she was talking about us.

 

image.thumb.png.deebdb4ab6236cbf7d9bbe39cfcf72c3.png

 

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4 minutes ago, Enkhidu said:

 

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It's something really easy to miss if you weren't paying attention, she says it when she defeats Clear and Kieran and steals the 3 black boxes. Of course at the moment I wasn't 100% sure (more like only 80% sure) if she was talking about the MC, but after seeing what she uses one of the black boxes for I think it's a safe guess to say that she was talking about us.

 

image.thumb.png.deebdb4ab6236cbf7d9bbe39cfcf72c3.png

 

Spoiler

Like you said, she picked 3 boxes. 2 are sure Nancy and MC. Maybe the third is the one which Ren gives to us in Alamissa. Or maybe the one used for our "first death" in Valor Summit. But obliviously, she means us.

 

Now talking about MC's deaths, in Zenith, the computer (start chapter 15) said that our body got "3 deaths": I recognized only two (lava and Decimation in ruined present). Is the third one turned into stone or whatever in the past?

 

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13 minutes ago, S7rife said:
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Like you said, she picked 3 boxes. 2 are sure Nancy and MC. Maybe the third is the one which Ren gives to us in Alamissa. Or maybe the one used for our "first death" in Valor Summit. But obliviously, she means us.

 

Now talking about MC's deaths, in Zenith, the computer (start chapter 15) said that our body got "3 deaths": I recognized only two (lava and Decimation in ruined present). Is the third one turned into stone or whatever in the past?

 

The third dead is in the past where indriads maid wants to blow up kygaeren City.

We survive this bec of the power of the interceptor and then madame x turns back the time so that we can stop the bomb from exploding bec she knows we are important in the future

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2 hours ago, Kikss said:

The third dead is in the past where indriads maid wants to blow up kygaeren City.

We survive this bec of the power of the interceptor and then madame x turns back the time so that we can stop the bomb from exploding bec she knows we are important in the future

Spoiler

I forgot about it, I though it was only Madame X's intervention, not Interceptor's power.

 

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Hey all so I just finished my V13 run from the start and I took notes of important plot points and hidden info from side quest stuff.

 

In particular I wanted to share something I found in regards to that Madame X armour factory under Amethyst Cave

 

When you first meet Alexandra  (known as April or Krystal back then) at Amythest Cave, she tells you to figure out a way to open the door to get the Solrock Lunatone fusion thing.

 

When you work your way through the panels you end up fighting SECS that controlled a Regirock and Registeel (both shiny). The interesting thing is once you beat the battles it says both regi's moved back into their caves or something along those lines. The SEC's here for one don't have personality like the one we see in the Nightmare Realm or Caratos, and they  say the following "Users J and X not detected, attack mode will now commence". This  J and X HAS to be Jean and Xara right?  

 

See the issue with this is, we're not told anything about whether Xara/Jean or Clear/Kieran are involved in anything under Amethyst Cave, and how these robots got the Regis is also a I have no idea moment. I'm actually assuming that the regis that the SECS were using are the real ones, and that the Protectors of Aevium haven't 'caught' them but can just summon them to fight alongside with (kinda like how Saki took control of Registeel  in the nightmare realm against Hazuki)

 

Now onto the Madame X armour

When you first activate it, you see  a red looking time crystal onto the converyer belt, and then the message of WARNING, VITAL COMPONENT CORE#1 MISSING - 10 sec before automatic completion. Then you get a white suit/statue? of Madame X's armour. 

 

There's literally no instance in the game where anything could replace this 'vital component' except for what I think are 2 things:

1. Black shard crystal, and maybe the red time crystal looking thing is a crimson quartz? but then what's the other 'missing component'?

2. One of those mysterious black boxes (or as the Axis High nightmare students call them, brains...)

 

Again, there is so little information, and we still don't know the purpose of this armour factory or what that red time crystal even is. But Kieran/Clear or Xara/Jean definitely is involved here somehow,  and are likely allies of some sort.

I mean, we never got an explanation to why they paired up with Madame X on Eclysia Pyramid anyways right? How and when they teamed up is completely unknown but this bit of random info may be a link to the 2 party's relationship?

 

Another speculative thing I wanted to point out is that the gems used on Blacksteeple  to power up those sygil things are mostly purple, so likely are related to Amethyst Cave? During this arc, there is a mention of harvesting energy  via battles, and how dying gives more energy than normal? I believe this is some form of life or soul energy or malice energy of something that is related to the Ligosomnia Machine, as the machine required energy to sustain it right? Perhaps Madame X already was working with Kieran and Clear at this point of the game, who knows honestly?

 

We don't have a lot on the  purpose of collecting this negative/life/soul energy but if you think of that armour  factory in Amethyst Cave, well... where is it built near? A goddamn Grave Yard, which is full of spirits/death/etc you get my point. 

 

Although  the Puppet Master is now  gone, I do believe there will be a future version in which that armour factory may be fully explored, because there is so many questions surrounding it. The fact that the armour can be reproduced could also suggest multiple Madame X's in our current dimension, so Madame X may not just be the 1 person. This may also tie in with how the Puppet Master says Madame X is undefeatable (because there's not only 1, there's heaps?) or why Madame X decides to save us in Kugeran explosion despite being the MC's enemy? 

 

I'm going on a rant by now but tldr: Amethyst Cave is still very SUS and is linked to Xara/Jean or Clear/Kieran. We just need more info...

 

 

 

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On 7/28/2021 at 9:56 AM, Dausk said:

Yeah, I was just stating that I'm skeptical of the idea of Indriad fusing with Anju to form Angie because Geara shared the same aura simultaneously. Do we know who burned down the Wispy Tower?

Didn't Narcissa in her performance  story telling mention a black hair woman or something standing  on top of the tower as it burned down? I  vaguely remember  something like this right before her gym battle

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52 minutes ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

Didn't Narcissa in her performance  story telling mention a black hair woman or something standing  on top of the tower as it burned down? I  vaguely remember  something like this right before her gym battle

She supposedly wore a black dress too. I'm wondering this because whoever it was was most certainly targeting Indriad; and this is the point where he disappears in the present. There aren't too many characters that fit this description.

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On 8/11/2021 at 4:45 PM, CandyRock said:
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How is madame x able to intercept fate something that only Cresent, Variya and the Puppet master were

 able to do?, how does she know of spacea of tiempa?, why does she have a time diamond?, why is she so kind to maria but cold towards everyone else? what is her identity?, why does rune/puppet master regard her as invincible when she was fearless against clear and kieren? what is she after, is it the energy that naveed mention that is harvested from humans, is that why she wants to kill everyone, to harvest that energy? what would she do with it anyways? why is she after the archetype if thats the case? and why do clear-kieren and madame x's goal clash a lot but they still work together? surely harming everyone isn't madame x's only intentions there has to be another reason why, right? 

 

Clear and kieren: who is thier master? who is eden? was she supposed to be an alternate version of Risa Brunnete? why are they hell bent on resetting the world if they don't have the same goals as xara and jean?

 

Variya: who is she, a supervisor? is she the one who built the obelisk with nymeria? is she the 3rd piece of the original deity just like adrest? if so then why does adrest refer to her as "mother"?

 

Anju and Vitus (and Nymeria): what is essence, why does vitus need it? did they fuse into anju or was anju brainwashed? why does anju say that she has to save someone when we meet her at the back of indriads mansion? what happened during the battle for hiyoshi city? what is nymeria's fate? what about the strange house in kugearen (the house in which we recieve the weird diary)?

some questions i thought were interesting to think about 🤔 also sorry for my grammar its 4am in the morning and i can't go to sleep

 

Also one thing about this Indriad's essence is very interesting. In the battle against Geara in Saki's gym,  Geara's sprite no long has this spirit thing next to him anymore. I'm not sure if this is because Natasia didn't find all 1000 pieces of him, or because his soul got tore up he lost whatever that spirit thing was?

He  also mentions how he 'lost his rage' after you beat him, suggesting that whatever possessed him was the one that gave him all of these negative emotions?

 

We'll have to see whatever the hell it is Damien collected after the Indriad spirit cutscene in Anju's estate. I still lowkey believe Nim is straightup Nymiera but somehow manipulated by Indriad, but who knows

 

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3 hours ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

 

Also one thing about this Indriad's essence is very interesting. In the battle against Geara in Saki's gym,  Geara's sprite no long has this spirit thing next to him anymore. I'm not sure if this is because Natasia didn't find all 1000 pieces of him, or because his soul got tore up he lost whatever that spirit thing was?

He  also mentions how he 'lost his rage' after you beat him, suggesting that whatever possessed him was the one that gave him all of these negative emotions?

 

We'll have to see whatever the hell it is Damien collected after the Indriad spirit cutscene in Anju's estate. I still lowkey believe Nim is straightup Nymiera but somehow manipulated by Indriad, but who knows

 

Regarding the essence Damien collected. If you speak to one of the villagers who are in the same room as cresecent in the base in sashila, he says that they ‘detected traces of Nihilego poison and that the substance is somewhat of a parasite’. But we still have no full conclusion on what the substance is, but there’s an obvious link to storm-9 and indriad.

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14 hours ago, JK’S said:

Regarding the essence Damien collected. If you speak to one of the villagers who are in the same room as cresecent in the base in sashila, he says that they ‘detected traces of Nihilego poison and that the substance is somewhat of a parasite’. But we still have no full conclusion on what the substance is, but there’s an obvious link to storm-9 and indriad.

Oh wow! That's really cool! I never knew about this. Guess this links to how Nihilego can brainwash people

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I am 100% certain that Madame X is another version of Erin in the same way that Melia is another version of Maria. For the devs to use the exact same quote for two characters and highlight it? There's no other reason.

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14 hours ago, eggon said:

I am 100% certain that Madame X is another version of Erin in the same way that Melia is another version of Maria. For the devs to use the exact same quote for two characters and highlight it? There's no other reason.

Madame X and Erin also share some personality traits. Both are stoic, determined and quite cynical. Could be a coincidence, but it could also point to them being related or different versions of each other. 

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I do not know if this has been said before, but in the backstory about the champion in ch15, we see some of the Elite 8. One of them is Dylan from the Ana sidequest!

 

 Guess he was not kidding when he said he was strong lol. I just noticed this detail on my new save file, completely missed it the first time. 

 

He is partially hidden by the text box. 

Dylan.png

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By the way does anyone know what happens when you play through the school of nightmares if you use the code to play as Ana's sprite in the beginning? It seems that the scene in the Interceptor's nightmare realm changes a bit based on the sprite you chose, so it would be interesting to see what happens if you play as Ana seeing as she normally doesn't appear in the scene.

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Another topic I just found out and wanna bring up:

After finishing V13 story, if you go to the Obelisk and speak to Melia. She says that the obelisk has been calling out to her, and a voice said to her ‘Not yet’ when she tried to to touch the Obeslisk pad. There’s definitely a link between the Archetype and the Interceptor/ The Core, and I feel like Garufa Inc. has the answer to this.

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39 minutes ago, eggon said:

By the way does anyone know what happens when you play through the school of nightmares if you use the code to play as Ana's sprite in the beginning? It seems that the scene in the Interceptor's nightmare realm changes a bit based on the sprite you chose, so it would be interesting to see what happens if you play as Ana seeing as she normally doesn't appear in the scene.

Haven’t seen it myself so I don’t know, but I have a feeling her nano drive sprite would activate. But I’m not sure 

Edit: I just realised you were talking about the Nightmare realm and not the transformation scene so never mind 

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Ok, so I have a few of theories about how the world has been reset before.
First, the Eclysia Pyramid. Because of some explaining from Kieran, we know that this is an ark, a vehicle used for a purpose of preserving and protecting a group of people.  My theory is that it came from the world where Garufa Inc. was created. As it was implied in flashbacks and in a journal entry in the old building in the 3rd Layer, this world was ending. To save themselves, they built the pyramid, which they most likely used in conjunction with Amethyst Grotto to escape their demise by resetting the world, and using the ark, they kept themselves safe from the reset.

 

In addition to this, I want to talk about Adrest. There are two different regarding this character. 1. He is one of the parts that made up the initial deity, who was found by Nymiera and was sealed inside the Amethyst Grotto, waiting to be reawakened when he is needed. 2. He is the son of Variya, the blonde woman seen in flashbacks, and is also seen alongside her in said flashbacks. So this is where it connects to the previous theory. What if, when the world was reset, the one who was sent to Amethyst Grotto to reset it was the human Adrest, who the had the soul/deity Adrest inhabit his body because he was the one who reset it. And then, when the world starts anew, this human Adrest is also the one we see protecting Nymiera in the past.

 

I also had a theory about the Nymiera in Zeight. My idea is that she was created in the 3rd Layer world, and was most probably based of off legends of Nymiera that were passed down in that world. And that this AI-Nymiera can interact with the future iterations of human Nymiera when the world is reset.

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On 8/21/2021 at 5:11 PM, Mageknight said:

Ok, so I have a few of theories about how the world has been reset before.
First, the Eclysia Pyramid. Because of some explaining from Kieran, we know that this is an ark, a vehicle used for a purpose of preserving and protecting a group of people.  My theory is that it came from the world where Garufa Inc. was created. As it was implied in flashbacks and in a journal entry in the old building in the 3rd Layer, this world was ending. To save themselves, they built the pyramid, which they most likely used in conjunction with Amethyst Grotto to escape their demise by resetting the world, and using the ark, they kept themselves safe from the reset.

 

In addition to this, I want to talk about Adrest. There are two different regarding this character. 1. He is one of the parts that made up the initial deity, who was found by Nymiera and was sealed inside the Amethyst Grotto, waiting to be reawakened when he is needed. 2. He is the son of Variya, the blonde woman seen in flashbacks, and is also seen alongside her in said flashbacks. So this is where it connects to the previous theory. What if, when the world was reset, the one who was sent to Amethyst Grotto to reset it was the human Adrest, who the had the soul/deity Adrest inhabit his body because he was the one who reset it. And then, when the world starts anew, this human Adrest is also the one we see protecting Nymiera in the past.

 

I also had a theory about the Nymiera in Zeight. My idea is that she was created in the 3rd Layer world, and was most probably based of off legends of Nymiera that were passed down in that world. And that this AI-Nymiera can interact with the future iterations of human Nymiera when the world is reset.

So what you're saying is that the in the previous world where the Garufa civilization was founded, all the legends of the creation of the world is the same as the world we inhabit in and therefore Nymiera was also a mythical figure and was also one of the first humans? So they were way ahead of the current world before being reset, but then why is their stuff still here? I guess human Adrest found soul Adrest when he was resetting the world in the grotto? And how is Variya still able to interact with MC (turning them into the interceptor) after the world was reset and is somehow powerful enough to edit the world so now "we" are them instead of Aevia/Avis/Alain/etc?

 

Another really confusing character is Ana, at a first glance, she is clearly related to the group of friends whose souls became the MC. But the android Ana that we meet seems to have memories from the previous world where pokemon are extinct. If the world was reset and I mean literally reset, would that imply that events happened in the same way in both iterations? The meteor hitting the god deity and splitting in 3, the creation of the 4 siblings using the Archetype, the group of friends getting attacked by Nihilego  (why did this happen btw did the storm just create them out of nowhere), how many of these events happened in the previous world if it happened at all? It's all very confusing and though I do believe the devs had an outline or an idea of the big picture of the story from the start, I think it's pretty clear sometimes stories take a life of their own and it's why it becomes so convoluted at times, especially after so many rewrites. For example, Kanon's story feels a lot like it got retconned at some point.

 

Imho as of right now at least the explanation for the existence of Clear and Kieran is a somewhat unsatisfying. They claim to be from another dimension which I assume isn't the same as claiming that they are from the previous world. If this is true then that creates another layer to the fabric of reality of the world. They seem to almost be omniscient and is working towards destroying everything, why don't they just kill all of us at the start of the game? They clearly knew of our importance to the grand scheme at least from way back during the events in Terajuma (and they have a gun). Why are they doing this? Out of all the characters that we know why did it have to be Jean and Xara that turned into these people? The Jean and Xara of our dimension doesn't seem to share the same traits (except for intelligence maybe). So far at least, I feel like they complicate the story too much, they know too much, and they feel like an easy source of conflict whenever the story needs one instead of being natural manipulative antagonists. And they exist on top of another extremely powerful antagonist in the form of Madame X (who also know a lot) and Madame X has the luxury of being built up much early on in the game.

 

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7 hours ago, eggon said:

So what you're saying is that the in the previous world where the Garufa civilization was founded, all the legends of the creation of the world is the same as the world we inhabit in and therefore Nymiera was also a mythical figure and was also one of the first humans? So they were way ahead of the current world before being reset, but then why is their stuff still here? I guess human Adrest found soul Adrest when he was resetting the world in the grotto? And how is Variya still able to interact with MC (turning them into the interceptor) after the world was reset and is somehow powerful enough to edit the world so now "we" are them instead of Aevia/Avis/Alain/etc?

I'll admit, it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the previous world had the same legends and history, but it would be a bit convoluted if each world was that different from each other, rather than each world being the same, just with alterations caused by the nature of the reset or because of the actions of those who survived.

 

I think that when the world is reset, it doesn't erase the old world, but instead the old world is pushed down into the earth, and the new world is formed above that.

 

I don't know a thing about who Variya is, or why she appears when someone goes super. My best guess is that she's like Mom in Zeight and is just a cyberghost who guides people from beyond the grave.

7 hours ago, eggon said:

Another really confusing character is Ana, at a first glance, she is clearly related to the group of friends whose souls became the MC. But the android Ana that we meet seems to have memories from the previous world where pokemon are extinct. If the world was reset and I mean literally reset, would that imply that events happened in the same way in both iterations? The meteor hitting the god deity and splitting in 3, the creation of the 4 siblings using the Archetype, the group of friends getting attacked by Nihilego  (why did this happen btw did the storm just create them out of nowhere), how many of these events happened in the previous world if it happened at all? It's all very confusing and though I do believe the devs had an outline or an idea of the big picture of the story from the start, I think it's pretty clear sometimes stories take a life of their own and it's why it becomes so convoluted at times, especially after so many rewrites. For example, Kanon's story feels a lot like it got retconned at some point.

I had an idea that Ana is from this world, but her Nano Drive isn't and is instead from the previous world, but it was damaged at some point or another.

 

7 hours ago, eggon said:

Imho as of right now at least the explanation for the existence of Clear and Kieran is a somewhat unsatisfying. They claim to be from another dimension which I assume isn't the same as claiming that they are from the previous world. If this is true then that creates another layer to the fabric of reality of the world. They seem to almost be omniscient and is working towards destroying everything, why don't they just kill all of us at the start of the game? They clearly knew of our importance to the grand scheme at least from way back during the events in Terajuma (and they have a gun). Why are they doing this? Out of all the characters that we know why did it have to be Jean and Xara that turned into these people? The Jean and Xara of our dimension doesn't seem to share the same traits (except for intelligence maybe). So far at least, I feel like they complicate the story too much, they know too much, and they feel like an easy source of conflict whenever the story needs one instead of being natural manipulative antagonists. And they exist on top of another extremely powerful antagonist in the form of Madame X (who also know a lot) and Madame X has the luxury of being built up much early on in the game.

First of all, it is explained that they aren't alternate versions of Xara and Jean, but android duplicates made by someone from an alternate dimension/timeline who based them off of the Xara and Jean of their world. I will agree that their existence does complicate the story a lot, with what their able to do, and what they have been doing. But it seems that their plan is to manipulate events to cause the destruction of this world, for whatever reason. 

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15 hours ago, Mageknight said:

First of all, it is explained that they aren't alternate versions of Xara and Jean, but android duplicates made by someone from an alternate dimension/timeline who based them off of the Xara and Jean of their world. I will agree that their existence does complicate the story a lot, with what their able to do, and what they have been doing. But it seems that their plan is to manipulate events to cause the destruction of this world, for whatever reason. 

My problem with those 2 characters is that they seem intended to play the role of a manipulative super powerful super knowledgeable villains, but we kinda already have that in Madame X. And sometimes the stuff that they do feel like a convenient way for the plot to progress instead of having an internal reasoning that makes sense and as a result complicates things in a way that no other plotline does imo. For example, it's suggested that Clear was the one who manipulated Nim and turned her into Lorna not Crescent. But why? They already can turn people into stone with the machine without Nim's help, or perhaps they are readying her to be the new Storm-9? But then why pose as Crescent? Not only does Nim not have any type of relationship to Crescent beforehand, Clear, either before or after, neutralized her so they didn't have much to gain by implicating her. She could've impersonated anyone else or even just wore a mask if she just wants to obfuscate the situation and it wouldn't play out that differently. This is one of those scenarios that I mentioned I felt was retconned at some point. Every other major plotline whether it's Team Xen, Garufa, Vitus, are really fun to explore for me in a way that this one just isn't because it kinda exist on it's own external to everything else except for when they are needed to manipulate some event in a certain way to create conflict.

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