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  • Balancing conundrums


    Zumi
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    Well, here it is, the long awaited follow up to the balancing survey we held for Normal mode. Better strap in for a long read, as I’ve got quite a couple of things to talk about!

     

    I’ve been kinda putting off making a post about this because of the inevitable complaints we’re going to get bombarded with in the comments of people who refuse to look at things from our perspective, so before I talk about any of the preliminary changes we’ve come up with at this point, I want to make a few things absolutely clear to people as I don’t feel like having to repeat myself like a broken record in the comments.

     

    1. Yes, the overall difficulty will be toned down for the vanilla experience rather than being adjusted to make fights more difficult. We do not care if you don’t like these changes because “MUH CHALLENGE”, it is not our problem anymore. We want to give the player a smooth experience where you don’t have to get stuck on the same fight for hours on end, and with the current state of balancing it’s just not possible to give that experience. If you really want to continuously get pulped by every single fight in the game, there will be passwords added in either V13.5 or V14 that will manage difficulty on a smaller scale to make things harder or easier– please use those instead. The amount of challenge you give yourself is in your hands from this point forward, we’re not going to make things purposefully insanely difficult anymore as dealing with people getting mad at us for making things too hard is just… so not worth the time and energy. If you're an intense/veteran normal player and want to retain the challenge you enjoy, I suggest you make use of said passwords or look into difficulty mods instead—we're leaving intense in the hands of the community now instead.

    2. We are responding to data we’ve collected with the survey. We’ve had close to 350 responses to the survey! Sure, it's not the complete playerbase (it's impossible to collect the opinion of everyone anyways), but it's a much more reliable data source than smaller circles like rejuv gen and the likes are. As a result, it gave us a much better indication of what fights truly are troublesome and which ones are fine. Turns out that fights some people perceive as “too easy” has shown in the survey that they're actually a lot more challenging for people than we thought! From chapter 2 onwards, every chapter had at least one major fight that was giving people problems one way or another— yes, even fights that we as the devs were surprised that people were having trouble with. We are simply adjusting according to the averages and read through the notes people left to sift out what the sore spots were for those fights for most people.

    3. “But why aren’t you appealing to the audience that likes the challenge?!?!” I hate to break it to you, but that group of people is a small but vocal minority. And besides, no matter what we decide to change, someone will be pissed off and will disagree. Jan’s somewhat recent post on tumblr best explains how it is dealing with this, it always feels like a losing game trying to satisfy everyone. Balancing Pokémon—which is inherently unbalanced to begin with—in a way that it’s fair for everyone is a NIGHTMARE. So to answer your question, at this point we’re just trying to make it fun for the biggest group of people possible, which is a more casual playerbase. As such, we’re improving overall QOL by making fights not as difficult so the game feels more streamlined to get through.

    4. THESE CHANGES ARE PRELIMINARY, AND NOT ALL OF THE CHANGES WE'RE MAKING. Like I tried to explain in the comments about the boss bars in Jan's previous post on the dev blog, if something turns out to not work as well in practice, we will likely change them over the course of testing and see if things work better that way. If a fight is still too difficult, we'll likely make more changes to adjust accordingly. The stuff mentioned in the post is the changes we've made prior to testing, and which we'll have to try out to see if it works out.

     

    For now, I would appreciate it if people would hold their horses about yelling in the comments that they don't like the changes (regardless of whether they seem to make things easier or harder) because we've literally not even tested some of these in practice, thus we don't know for sure whether these changes will be definite or if they will receive further revisions. We're communicating this with you guys because we see value in being transparent about changes we make and being honest about what the current situation's like.

     

    Sorry if the game’s difficulty is not heading in the direction you want it to, but we've decided that we want to steer the game in the direction that's the most fun for the devs to work on as well, and specifically Jan's. He's the one who has to make the game, and in the end we've agreed that this is the healthiest for both us and the game in the long run. On top of that, I want to stress that just because we're very open about communicating to people about development and therefore are generally very much within reach of the playerbase, it does NOT mean people have the right to send us pointed or passive aggressive messages constantly telling us how you don't like certain things. This is not your game, and therefore these are not your decisions to make. Once again, if Jan (and subsequently the rest of the team) stops having fun, Rejuvenation stops being made. Please, we ask you to treat us with respect over this.

     

    ————————————————————————————————————————

     

    *cough*

     

    That being said and on a more positive note… Let’s move on to the actual changes, shall we? I'll put stuff for each individual thing that I'll cover in spoilers in the case people would rather not know about specific changes! New additions are marked in green, changes are marked in yellow and things that got removed are marked in red. The new additions are added on top of the existing field, so most of the changes do not fully replace what's already there, but instead will open up more avenues for the player to make use of when going into a fight.

     

    (Frozen) Dimensional field & Angie

    Spoiler

    This is probably one people were probably looking forward to as it pertains to everyone's favourite off-the-fucking-hinges ice lady, Angie!

     

    Though we do not have changes for her team right now, we're hoping that the changes and new additions to the dimensional fields give the player more breathing space, allow for thawing out the field without her freezing the normal field over straight away again and as a result make her less of a brick wall you're trying to break with a flimsy wooden stick. In attempt to even things out, we decided to nerf her offensively and make it so fire types no longer get crippled offensively by the field but get a defense nerf instead. To make up for fire moves no longer being weakened, ice types get a defense boost on the frozen field.

     

    Frozen Dimensional Field

    • Ice types have increased defenses by x1.2

    • Fire types have decreased defenses by x0.8

    • Fire types no longer have weakened offense

    • Ghost types have increased defenses by x1.2

    • Ice type attacks gain a x1.2 boost in power (down from x1.5)

    • Dark type attacks gain a x1.5 boost in power (up from x1.2)

    • Rage becomes a 60bp Dark Type attack that always raises Attack.

    • Dragon Rage deals 140 flat damage.

    • Berserk boosts Special Attack on entry.

    • Anger Point and Justified boost Attack on entry.

    • Unnerve drops the opponent's speed stat by 1 stage on entry

    • Pressure drops the opponent's defenses by 1 stage on entry

     

    Dimensional Field

    • Ghost types have increased defenses by x1.5

    • The following moves get a x1.5 increase in power:

      •         Outrage                 Thrash                  Stomping Tantrum 

      •         Lash Out                Freezing Glare          Roar of Time

      •         Fiery Wrath

    • Rage becomes a 60bp Dark Type attack that always raises Attack.

    • Dragon Rage deals 140 flat damage

    • Download changes the user's type every turn

    • Berserk boosts Special Attack on entry

    • Anger Point and Justified boost Attack on entry

    • Unnerve drops the opponent's speed stat by 1 stage on entry

    • Pressure drops the opponent's defenses by 1 stage on entry

    • Two uses of the following moves can turn this field into Frozen Dimensional (changed from one use):

      •         Blizzard        Sheer Cold        Cold Truth  

     

     

    Sky field & Souta

    Spoiler

    Ah yes. Sky grandpa. (Thanks to the person who wrote that in their survey response by the way, I'll never be able to stop saying that now ADHFDGBD)

     

    From the survey we've gathered that due to the way the field works and the elemental seed being rather broken on sky field, we needed to make some changes to the field in order to make his fight less "stall out tailwind for 8 turns" and more of a fight where you can get to work right away without having to bring a very specific team to combat his own. Next to that, this fight shares a similar predicament with Angie's that Souta kept changing back the field within one turn from the mountain field, which took the player two turns to set up. To counter this, Heavenly wing (Souta's signature move) will no longer change the field back to the sky field, and Smack down/Grav apple will now change the field within a single turn instead.

     

    Sky Field

    • Elemental Seed raises Defense and Special Defense (No longer activates tailwind)

    • These moves deal super-effective damage to Flying-types

      •         Bonemerang  

    • Pokemon with Long Reach gain a boost in power of x1.5 and also deal super-effective damage to Flying-types.

    • The following moves are boosted in power 1.5x:

      •         Dive

    • These moves will turn the field into Mountain Field (Down from 2 uses for Smack Down and Grav Apple)

      •         Gravity             Ingrain      

      •         Thousand Arrows    Grav Apple   

      •         Smack Down

     

    Haunted field & Narcissa

    Spoiler

    While Narcissa is not as much of a sore point as Angie and Souta are, her field can still make this fight a chokepoint for some. In order to make things more fair for the player, a couple more avenues have been opened up for people to change the field or to make use of bigger buffs on fire types. Alongside that, her Drifblim will no longer hold a seed that causes it to get a burn and her Chandelure has been changed to a Lampent in order to lower the total BST (because her Chandelure was Definitely Very Not Legitimate for at that level)

     

    Haunted Field

    • Ghost types deal neutral damage to Normal Type Pokemon (changed from super effective)

    • The following move(s) gets a x1.5 increase in power and gain the Ghost type (up from x1.3)

      •     Flame Burst        Inferno        Flame Charge        Fire Spin

    • The following moves can turn this field into a Blessed Field:
      •     Judgement    Sacred Fire
      •     Purify            Origin Pulse

     

     

    Bewitched woods & Flora/Florin

    Spoiler

    Long story short, this field needed a nerf. Steel/Poison types getting crippled way too hard by the field both offensively and defensively made the fights with Flora or Florin harder than they need to be, and therefore have received some slight buffs in order to even the playing field a bit more. So yes, hopefully now the "Balanced woods" moniker some people have given the field will be somewhat more accurate rather than a mockery!

     

    Bewitched Woods

    • Fairy type attacks now hit Steel type Pokemon for Super Effective damage. (No longer both Grass and Fairy)

    • Poison attacks deal neutral to Grass types. (No longer both Grass and Fairy)

    • The following moves accuracy has been increased to 85 (Down from 95):

      •      Poison Powder    Sleep Powder

      •      Grasswhistle       Stun Spore

     

     

    Some more minor but notable changes...

    Spoiler

    Crawli

    Spoiler

    The field for Crawli's fight will be changed to Swamp instead of Forest. Rain will also be removed.

     

    Amanda (West Gearen)

    Spoiler

    Hatterene's focus sash got dropped, giving an opening for players to knock it out before it can set up trick room.

     

    Pokemon/Event changes

    Spoiler
    • New Pokémon events in Gearen City
    • Route 2 gets a mystery egg
    • Crawli's reward for beating Rift Gyarados after beating Narcissa will be changed to a mystery egg
    • Qwilfish will now be available in the Gearen sewers with an Old Rod

     

     

    As mentioned before, these are preliminary and definitely not the only things we're looking at to change. Stuff like Geara's battles, boss battles and most other gym leaders that haven't been mentioned before are being looked at—with Saki's fight likely being redone from the ground up due to that the fight is fundamentally a pain in the ass and can't be fixed with just one or two minor changes. It's taking time as people are busy, but we're still working on them and hoping we can find a solution for making the fights more manageable than they are now.

     

    ————————————————————————————————————————

     

    That's all for now in regards to changes! We're adding more in the future and there'll probably be another post about it when the ideas have become more concrete, but that'll be a while away from now. For the time being, we'll keep working hard to make the game a better experience overall.

     

    What's next on the list to do? Well for me specifically, if you've seen my twitter last week or so, I'm working on fixing up the official artwork for almost all of the characters as I've come to realize I really should've utilized flipping the canvas more often to see if what I drew makes any proportional sense........... of which a lot I'm ashamed to say they did not. BUT I'M WORKING ON IT. Will it get a separate post detailing EVERYTHING? Probably not. But I'll be making a post when everything's been uploaded and fixed! Here's a couple of the more notable changes.

     

    FV48e43XEAkR0N6?format=jpg&name=900x900

    FV48j6aXgAIm8Lo?format=png&name=900x900

    FV48dK3WIAwW1x6?format=jpg&name=900x900FVpMNR9XsAIwrOC?format=png&name=900x900

     

    Oh, and I'm considering making completely new wallpapers with the character art that doesn't blast your eyes out at 2 am. But that's up in the air. we'll see.......................

     

    anyways this post has gone on for long enough. i'm done hogging the dev blog for today, so until next time!!! please don't kill me in the comments!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    o7

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    AWAAAAA ARTTTTT (and field changes pog)

    personally I think not having an intense mode is better, passwords to make that a thing sounds like a smart thing

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    Just wanna say that whatever changes are happening it's still your guys to command. We are just an audience so we can't make BIG BIG changes like you guys can, so whether it's big or small changes ya guys decide it's all yours and we have no right to complain, really. And idk about everyone else, but Rejuvenation (aside from reborn) made me see a LOT of things from a different perspective and made me learn things I wasn't aware of. So TLDR; small or big support is always from me with Rejuv til the end. Good luck devs! Can't wait for the surprises you have for us!

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    Considering that every single fight you mentioned is one thats given me a personal bad time I am fully welcoming these changes, (seriously felt so much relief about that focus sash removal) Thank you guys for working so hard!!

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    The field for Crawli's fight will be changed to Swamp instead of Forest. Rain will also be removed.


    I am very interested in seeing what swamp Crawli will look like. 
     

    Also on behalf of intense mode fans I would like to apologize for the toxic intense mode fans that have been mean to y’all. Please do whatever is best for you and the game.

    Edited by HelpMiiPlease
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    I welcome pretty much any changes made to the game, it'll all be worth it in the end.

     

    And the password system sounds interesting, that'll be pretty good for when people want something different in their new playthroughs

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    I’m going to assume there have been vocal and rude people harping on these points about difficulty, and that the arguing has happened for a while; because it’s very jarring as a casual player to be yelled at for enjoying the difficulty of the game…

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    Honestly as someone who is an avid intense player who lives for the beatdown and the challenge

     

    I genuinely can completely understand you here, your goals just don't align with the desire to make people suffer via battles 

     

    There's definitely an experience with the game you all have in mind and that's extremely respectable to try and give us! You always have to do your best to give an experience that you can enjoy as well as more people!

     

    Honestly keep up doing this, make whatever changes are necessary and most of all stay in the best headspace you can, game creation is a tiresome project and you all deserve the world for bringing this to me and letting me meet a lot of unforgettable people along the way!

     

    Stay truckin~

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    6 minutes ago, N V said:

    I’m going to assume there have been vocal and rude people harping on these points about difficulty, and that the arguing has happened for a while; because it’s very jarring as a casual player to be yelled at for enjoying the difficulty of the game…

     

    It's not aimed at the casual playerbase. We've repeatedly gotten passive aggressive or downright rude messages from people thinking they can tell us how we should be doing things (Jan in particular has gotten a LOT), and every time any changes were made based on feedback we'd still get shit for it no matter the change, so I decided it'd be best to put my foot down about this stuff up front before we get another slew of these kinds of messages.

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    Players who are better in Intense Mode in Pokemon Rejuvenation are getting harsher, more harsher, so harsh that they are losing their own control and because of that, accepting the reality is very hard to bear. I pity and feel so sorry to Jan for it. Yet, I'm not in the part of this protest.

     

    The field effects being updated are understandable. I would try to be careful about Frozen Dimensional Field if I chose to use Mono Fire team. Even so, my only favorite field will be always Holy Flame Field (the one I only posted), even if it isn't here. It's not like I'm suggesting it.

     

    Those updated designs matches better than we expected. There might be interesting to see the new ones if there is one.

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    12 minutes ago, Zumi said:

     

    It's not aimed at the casual playerbase. We've repeatedly gotten passive aggressive or downright rude messages from people thinking they can tell us how we should be doing things (Jan in particular has gotten a LOT), and every time any changes were made based on feedback we'd still get shit for it, so I decided it'd be best to put my foot down about this stuff up front before we get another slew of these kinds of messages.


    Sucks that y’all have been getting this kind of hate for such a high quality game. I hope that the whole situation gets better. I think almost all of us support all of you and whatever y’all end up doing with the game.

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    The updated character artworks look fantastic! 

    A password system to manage and customize the difficulty sounds more appealing than intense mode. Intense mode often felt a bit unfair, and it wasn't my cup of tea to begin with. 

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    Thank you so much about the nerf of the Sky Field !
    That was my main comment in the survey and really glad to see the changes, they seem really nice like that.

    V13.5 Hype !

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    Yeah I agree with Fal. While removing Intense mode and overall lowering the difficulty of the game will probably alleviate most of the harrassing in DMs, you're also blocking out a legitimate part of the playbase, throwing the baby out with the bathwater type deal. This became especially true with the wording in the survey, I obviously didn't fill it out because I am an intense mode player, but how it was presented felt very passive aggressive. The survey did make me reconsider whether or not I was going to keep playing rejuv, and not because of the difficulty changes. 

    There isn't much to linger on, I doubt there's anything anyone could say to make you guys change your mind on this. I am going to keep playing rejuv but it would have been more fun had intense been a thing.

    Edited by Diali
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    If I have to be honest, Intense Mode existed because of you devs: you created it, you can ""destroy it"" if it goes out of control. And I'm 100% in agree with you if you want to remove it. Players who wants so hard challenges are too difficult to please sometimes. For me, I can tell the game is already perfect with Casual and Normal and I'm pretty happy and satisfied with both. After all, Rejuvenation made me use Pokémon I almost never used in official games, like Cradily, Mismagius, Froslass with Cursed Body, Hariyama, Xatu, ... I actually re-evalutated in good ways many mons with Rejuv. And plus, the story is so efficient and perfect for creating thousand of theories, which I actually did some. I hope you'll still hiding the best for the game's lore in your "folders" because Chapter 15 was a bomb!

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    I think Falirion's points are completely valid and I fall into the group of people most affected by this change (i.e. people who only play on Intense mode). Despite this, I think removing Intense mode is absolutely the right decision.

     

    It is very unfortunate that you guys (Jan especially) have been receiving messages like that from others, especially considering the game is provided to us for free. I think (and would hope) those people make up the minority of our group. Falirion is right - I hope people in general don't assume every member of a certain group is terrible due to the existence of a few "bad apples" (applies to life in general, not just Pokemon).

     

    But again, I agree that removing Intense was the right decision. Zumi already boiled it down. Health and happiness takes priority, and the devs being excited to work on the game versus being annoying but slogging through it just to finish it would be apparent in the final product. Plus, the workload reduction could lead to other cool features being able to be implemented.

     

    I don't think my future enjoyment of the game will be reduced despite me enjoying the challenge of Intense and the more difficult "meme" or similar mods. As stated, there's the password system, and that's where I think there's a lot of room for potential and why I will still enjoy the game after Intense is gone. We can give opponents 252/31 in every stat, ourselves 0 IVs in every stat, and do additive or multiplicative enemy level adjustments. Sure, these on their own might not seem as "organic" as a traditional hard mode, but as I said there's a lot of potential for even more difficulty adjustment passwords and also more difficulty password packs aside from the existing "easymode" and "hardmode" passwords. I have some ideas for these but don't want to make this post longer than it already is.

     

    The last thing I want to say related to this is that I think it would be great if passwords were a bit more fleshed out to the player. Instead of "Would you like to enter any passwords?", it could say "There are many passwords you can enter to customize the game to your liking, including adding quality of life features and making the game easier or harder. Would you like to enter any passwords?". Then there would be 3 options of "Yes", "No", and "More Info", where "More Info" breaks the 4th wall and says "You can enter multiple passwords if you'd like, and you can enter passwords during the game. You can see a list of passwords at this site." This way it's clear what the passwords are for and that we have a lot of control over how we experience the game.

     

    As always, thanks to the devs for all of the hard work on the game and for regularly giving us updates! It's really appreciated, even if it doesn't seem like it sometimes.

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    Do what y'all think is best, that is really all we as the community can hope for. Some people will always complain, as I am sure y'all know, but I hope all that the people working on this incredible game can have just a fraction of the fun making the game that I had playing it! 

    Edited by Spurlingja
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    These changes so far are quite minor compared to what I had anticipated. Was doubly surprised and unsurprised to see Narcissa's name crop up on the list once I remembered the buff Haunted Field got in v13. It makes sense since she kind of existed in a state of limbo before where you could completely invalidate her fight by using Flash / Dazzling Gleam before and steamroll her on Blessed Field but would get pummelled without it. She was more frustrating this time around without the auto-win Blessed Field condition but Flash still ended up paying in dividends even though it only lasted 3 turns. You note "these moves temporarily get rid of the field" but don't outline for how long. Would be useful to know.

     

    Wanted to add that it feels like there's a lot vitriol being thrown around and it makes it feel pretty jarring to comment on things. As mentioned on the other post that I'm a lurker. I had no idea there was a survey until said post (Jan mentioned it had been posted a month ago but where?) or about the intended removal of shields (which had been posted to patreon). I have no idea what rejuv gen is. Is that the discord? I don't follow these circles. I only lurk these forums. I mention these things as an outsider to try and help understand where I'm coming from as a player. It makes me regret trying to stay up to date with these posts lately because it feels like every time I open them there's so much negativity in either the post or the comments being spread around from circles I've never even heard of. And I can't fully understand why as someone that loves the game regardless of its difficulty. It feels like even mundane comments get blown out of proportion and there's this divide in the community where if you have even slightly negative things to say you're publicly disregarded because you're unconditionally being associated with the people that go out of their way to harass the devs. Go figure; that's not a nice thing to do (it feels weird that this keeps needing to be repeated). But this gets treated like the norm even when it's not. Like there's this stigma surrounding anyone that plays on intense where they're bad people and their opinions don't matter

     

    Vocal minorities exist at both sides of the spectrum and it's strange to me that one side (casual players) is being taken under more consideration than the other (veterans). Like there's a sense of bias. Obviously at a certain point in time you just have to bite the bullet and accept you can't make everyone happy. This is something that the devs keep trying to impress they've done but it just keeps circling back over and over. Like it's impossible to move past the negativity which feels like the exception rather than the rule but just keeps getting hammered into over and over again. I liked intense and its removal feels like I got the short end of the stick because of other people but I can accept that even if I don't agree with or like it, because it's for the overall wellbeing of the devs and at the end of the day you're the ones making the game not me. And I'm okay with that. I can suck it up. But what's incredibly hurtful is that it feels like there's no avenue for me to have a voice. Because you've heard this a thousand times before from different people saying the same thing in a different way and it only adds to the frustration of hearing it over and over again. So I've been cut out and you don't want to hear it. To echo Falirion's sentiments, it feels like I'm being pushed away or that I'm not wanted when I want to be included but was never even given a chance to be.

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    Hey as an intense player. i was sort of growing to think the later battles in the game were a chore and had to get a specific team in order to counter them (so like souta, saki, keta reverend etc) there i didn't feel there were much ways to counter said field effects. for example. like bewitched field or forest field i couldn't come up with much strategies to counteract the field or change it completely. ik u dont take requests but i would personally love for you guys to implement more field changes for players to think outside the box there currently stuck in. or like make field overrides (like electric terrain or grassy terrain) completely override it instead of adding some effects to said field.

     

    thats just my opinion tho. that being said. THANK YOU OMG!! i love the more added mons at the start of the game. when i tell you i was getting bored of the same selection of pokemon at the begging. like my team *ALWAYS* had either a fletchling, one of the nidorans, a grass type like oddish/bellsprout, and a sweeper like bibarel/mightenea. it felt pretty samey so im sooo glad you changed that

     

    oh and made changes to the current fields cant wait to see how this changes the fights

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    As a normal player I am quite happy with the changes made, especially for Angie and Souta as I definitely had trouble against them. I can also understand the changes made for Narcissa and the forest field though I myself haven't had as much trouble as the former two. I do enjoy the changes for the Dimensional field as I can also see it as some help towards some of the rifts that people may have difficulties with. 

     

    The only changes I am a bit unsure of is the Frozen dimensional field completely removing the decrease in offense for Fire types as I feel that making the decrease for fire moves smaller is enough but I will have to see just how much of a difference the decreased defences make in the fight and I will most likely see that it would be too much to also have decreased offenses.  I can see dragon rage dealing 140 flat damage cheese the early game rifts for anyone picking charmander but having the option available isn't a problem. 

     

    I myself enjoy having to use different members to manage different fights but it can be annoying that a number of fights require very specific pokemon sometimes to win so I look forward to whatever changes that are coming forward. 

     

    As I mentioned in the last post this is your game at the end of the day and I will support whatever changes you believe are necessary to make the game enjoyable for all. I am excited for whatever you guys bring forward and I definitely look forward to having more mystery eggs in the beginning of the game. 

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    Quote
    • Crawli's reward for beating Rift Gyarados after beating Narcissa will be changed to a mystery egg

    Yo!

    Yo!

    Mystery Box I mean Egg 

    Mystery Egg

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    6 hours ago, Gengar768 said:

    but i would personally love for you guys to implement more field changes for players to think outside the box there currently stuck in. or like make field overrides (like electric terrain or grassy terrain) completely override it instead of adding some effects to said field.

    Okay i already said my piece on the main topic, but i see this one a lot and have to say something.
    More natural, built in, field changes, sure, gladly, it would be interesting
    Terrain moves and surge abilities overwriting field effects? hard no, and not because "but it would make things easier" or "it's so cheesy" (i still think the latter, couldn't really care less about the former)
    From a design perspective terrain overwriting fields unconditionally is frankly speaking bad, it basically ruins the field system as a whole. some will say that reborn has it that way and it's fine, but i don't like reborn having it that way either AND reborn doesn't have early terrain surges, they have tapus in late postgame.
    But other field changes exist, so what is the difference?
    well with the built in field changes to a field, there is actual counterplay to be had (from both sides) usually anyway. With terrains overwriting fields it's just someone (usually the player) clicking a button (and sometimes not even that, with a terrain surge) to ignore the entirety of the field system, you will never fight on a different field than your chosen terrain again if you bring a terrain surge (and grookey is a starter). It's honestly to a point that one might aswell not even have fields at all. From a design perspective Terrains outright overwriting fields just breaks the entire mechanic. If people don't want to play with field effects, i'd suggest having a password that disables fields entirely (outside of terrain overlays so those moves and abilities still do something), it essentially does the same thing without making the player bring specific mons.
    Additionally the terrain overlays make it so that terrain moves are usable in general play for their effects without feeling like you just completly cheesed whatever you were battling.
    That's just my 2 cents though

     

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    Is it too late to respond to the balance survey? I still haven’t completed V13 but probably only several weeks away, and I was planning to respond once I finished

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    • Veterans
    1 hour ago, Shadow Angel said:

    Is it too late to respond to the balance survey? I still haven’t completed V13 but probably only several weeks away, and I was planning to respond once I finished

     

    Sorry but yes! We've closed the survey so we'll be using the data we've collected in order to adjust stuff where necessary. The survey was up for about a little less than one and a half month so it felt that it'd be a good time to close it at this point.

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    Players when I shove 30 dimensional rifts down their throats (suddenly it's no longer fun to be entitled and harass people about a game they don't even own)

    boss baby crying Blank Template - Imgflip

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    18 hours ago, Falirion said:

    now i will say this
    i disagree and am mildly insulted at the insinuation that all people that play (played) and liked intense mode are "birds of a feather" if you will, so no, i do not feel intense mode players as a whole have to apologize for anything, the people that were hounding jan, zumi and other devs have to apologize or realize they are not wanted, and i refuse to have intense players be put into the same box with them thank you very much.

     My bad, I should have clarified that I meant the more toxic Intense mode players.

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    I'm pretty sure the guys who obsess and harass are a just small minority.

    So let's not "muh challenge" or disrespect the entirety of the intense players because it's unfair. As unfair as intense mode! top quality entertainment

     

    But a lot of legit intense players are losing the mode they like. I feel like being optimistic is the best thing to do because:

    The team has openly talked about passwords and they are trustworthy you know?

    The community has created intense modes in the past and can do it again.

    Best case scenario imo is getting two intense modes. Worst case is one. But getting none just feels such an impossible outcome to me.

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     So when are these changes going to be added ? because it wasn't mentioned anywhere … And yeah, I know you did say that some of them haven't been tested out yet. So I am just asking in curiosity.

     

    (if it is mentioned, I will feel really stupid, I had to read this article 10 times before I typed the above question ).

     

     

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    A fan of these changes! Now finally people will no longer be required to plan for Flora and Souta in advance.

    Great work as always, although sad to see you wont be handling Intense any more. 

    The person who made the Saki and Souta fights on Intense is a genius.

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    I am SO glad that Crawli, Angie, Souta, and Saki are getting changes. These fights in particular are so nuts, especially Saki since you end up having to do mental gymnastics in order to figure out what's going on. ok so there is wonder room and glitch field and seed and UMD uses the... defense stat but its a special move it was just a pain honestly. I know you didn't reveal everything and I put this in my survey as well so I hope it comes up later, the main 2 other fights that need nerfs IMO is the 2 rift gardevoir fights and Hazuki. I am curious as to how Crawli's fight will work, since reading up on Swamp field it doesn't provide any real buffs to the pokemon or moves he uses. And without rain I almost wonder if it will end up being TOO easy, but we'll see. Bug types are fickle and easily fall from OP to easy.

     

    And for what it's worth: I think leaving intense to the community is the right descion. Have a balanced gameplay expierence and for the hardcore people, leave that to the community. That's how it works for desolation and reborn afaik, and they have better "balancing" than rejuv, even though I would say that the other parts of rejuv are better. The intense community is big, I'm sure they'll figure out how to make things to the general liking of their community. 

     

    6 hours ago, SUSPAIMON said:

     So when are these changes going to be added ? because it wasn't mentioned anywhere … And yeah, I know you did say that some of them haven't been tested out yet. So I am just asking in curiosity.

     

    (if it is mentioned, I will feel really stupid, I had to read this article 10 times before I typed the above question ).

     

     

    Zumi mentioned it is V13.5 for these changes, and passwords will be either V13.5 or V14.

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    Can we move Torkoal back to pre-crawli then?

    If you want a more casual experience then it's fine to let things be good. Torkoal was always a nice addition when ya got it and Torkoal is always like super fun to use. Especially with the amount of double battles present within that period of the game.
    Also you got Torkoal + Venusaur at the same time which is always a super fun combination to use and I thought it was cool that you could get both of those mons pretty early on through a part of the game has a lot of doubles.

    You're also removing the rain in Crawli's gym so like, please I am begging you as a long time player just let me have some fun with my torkoal. I always thought the torkoal was pushed back because it was good at removing the rain and angie.

     

    I don't think it really made a whole lot of sense to make the AI be able to set up their field easier than you can break it. I thought in reborn the philosophy was always to try to find a way to use the field to turn it into something in your advantage. Either way the thing with Souta taking 2 turns to remove it when he just clicks one move to undo all of your work that was obnoxious.


    Saki being reworked is good, that fight was obnoxious.

    I hope the infamous G and Z fight on Valor Mountain doesn't receive too many changes, I like that fight being a bit hard relative to what's going on and considering it's kind of like the climax of that arc.

     

    Really I think Reborn is like the gold standard for a hard pokemon game that's also balanced I think decently well.

    I love your video game keep up the good work!

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    Ok, serious, after so many years playing a freaking FREE GAME there's still some douches complaining about minor stuff like difficulty and balancing? If you are one of theses guys, UNINSTALL THE FREAKING GAME. Devs, continue with the good work, thanks for being here. I love rejuv and looking foward to the results.

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    Zumi, Jan y'all and the dev team are amazing people.

    I find it funny how some people forget y'all make this game for FREE out of love for pokemon and instead resort  to harassing you

    to make the game to cater to their tastes.

    Personally I think your game was amazing enough without needing much changes, but the efforts you have undertaken to balance

    the game's difficulty is amazing. I love all of them. 

    Playing rejuvenation makes me feel like i'm playing a $200 pokemon game. idc if people think i'm weird for saying this. I just feel it's that good. Keep rocking y'all.
    You are amazing. you will make it through this.

    I am so excited for  the grand finale of the rejuvenation main story. Love it. 
    Hungry for more.!!!

    Best of luck Zumi and team.!

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    I don't really mind the difficulty being toned down since I re-played this game 6x already and I know that there are some parts that are just huge sudden walls, I always dread having to re-do the Gaera x Zetta fight at Mount Valor since the deck is ridiculously stacked in their favor with their team comp, the field and the fact we can't rely on Melia's AI that much, Souta is another one that is kinda of annoying to get through and, a lot of the times, forces me to completely change my entire team just to beat him, so I get that some people might find this game too difficult to enjoy, specially if they don't understand the IVs/EVs mechanics all that well.

    All I really want now is the same password system Reborn has so I can use the one that makes all Pokemons have 31IVs so I won't have to force myself to either breed one pokemon for hours or succumb to using debug mode for the convenience.

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    Damn anju's artwork makes her look more older and related to kriess i like that lol, will her outfit be also changed?. and lavendar looks a lot younger and friendlier

     

    i have 2 question though:

    1. regarding the game engine, will it be changed as well? because the engine reborn is using rn is making it load up a lot faster (in seconds) while rejuvenation loads up in 1-2 minutes as someone who mods the game, this is kinda annoying because i have to continuously restart the game and it takes so much time for it to start. (really minor but yeah)

    2. I think jan said in one of his posts that he will add intense again when the game is on its final-semi final version, is it set in stone or intense mode is really not coming back? i am not an avid intense player but i like the difficulty but honestly, you all do what's convenient for you. it will be easier for you while being a lot quicker to just remove the intense mode entirely 

     

    Really glad i am part of this community, and i can't wait to see what you all have in store!

     

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    • Veterans
    18 hours ago, TypeNull87 said:

    Wait so to be clear here only Normal mode and easy mode will be around hard mode is gone right?

     

    Yes! Though casual is getting renamed to Story mode instead. This really will be for players who just want to go through the game for the story with as little hindrance as possible, so it'll have a HUGE difficulty decrease in comparison to Normal mode.

     

    17 hours ago, SUSPAIMON said:

     So when are these changes going to be added ? because it wasn't mentioned anywhere … And yeah, I know you did say that some of them haven't been tested out yet. So I am just asking in curiosity.

     

    These changes will be added in the coming update, 13.5.

     

    2 hours ago, MhicKy said:

    All I really want now is the same password system Reborn has so I can use the one that makes all Pokemons have 31IVs so I won't have to force myself to either breed one pokemon for hours or succumb to using debug mode for the convenience.

     

    That's what we're aiming for! I'd imagine we don't share all of the same passwords but a lot of the ones in Reborn will likely be in rejuv as well i.e. the IV passwords and the like.

     

    20 minutes ago, OrangeOrb said:

    1. regarding the game engine, will it be changed as well? because the engine reborn is using rn is making it load up a lot faster (in seconds) while rejuvenation loads up in 1-2 minutes as someone who mods the game, this is kinda annoying because i have to continuously restart the game and it takes so much time for it to start. (really minor but yeah)

    2. I think jan said in one of his posts that he will add intense again when the game is on its final-semi final version, is it set in stone or intense mode is really not coming back? i am not an avid intense player but i like the difficulty but honestly, you all do what's convenient for you. it will be easier for you while being a lot quicker to just remove the intense mode entirely

     

    In regards to question one, as Rejuvenation will be sharing most of its scripts with Reborn (and Desolation as well thanks to Cass' efforts) it'll likely carry over a ton of the optimizations as well, which should hopefully alleviate loading speed issues. As for question two, this is definitely not a decision that's been set in stone yet. Jan said it's a possibility, not a guarantee! It's probably best to not get your hopes up in that regards anyways as there's currently basically no desire to officially pick up and resume work on Intense again.

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    I'm sure by this point the majority realizes the devs know what they're doing. What's challenging is fairly subjective anyway, so when in doubt the more accessible the better, I'd say. 

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    Wow, what a post. Ok lets do this.

    To difficulty:

    I can live with this easily. I like a decent challenge, not something that breaks my spirit and outside of a few fights in the V13 content...

    Spoiler

    Angie double fight and the Reshiram boss fight

    ...I found Normal mode to be just perfect all around. Zumi says there will be passwords to keep it roughly at that level and that is more than enough for me.

     

    Field changes:

    Well, I guess it depends on the team changes related to theses fields. I would keep the rain with Crawly to keep fire mons under control a bit more, but I trust you guys fully.

     

    Changes:

    The coolest fights in this game are the double battles, and the trickroom fights even more. Finding ways to kill the tr-setters before they can is quite fun for me, but not necessarily for others, so I get the sash drop.

     

    More Gearen event encounters is wonderful to see!

    More mystery-eggs are lovely! I personally hope they have different tables to avoid duplicates.

    Old Rod Qillfish is back, ayyyy~! (prospectively)

     

    Art;

    <3<3<3<3<3

     

    Thank you for the post Zumi! ^.^

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    At first I really hated the difficulty for normal mode but it changed once I became invested in the story, That's when I started to take it seriously where I try to make my teams weaknesses cover each other and use the fields for my advantages rather than just bulldozing it and hope for a crit or miss. Even if I lose multiple times, that feeling of satisfaction of beating your opponent and moving on with the story makes me more encouraged and motivated for the upcoming battles and building up my teams composition.

     

     

    It's thanks to rejuv and reborn that I started to liked playing competitive and difficult pokemon games like Radical Red and Emerald Kaizo.

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    Pretty happy with the change personally, and very happy that you still give a way for people to crank up the difficulty a bit more with passwords, as i like the challenge myself, else i'll just look into mods, sure some devoted folks will do them eventually.

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    After playing around with Reborn's passwords, I've come to realise that they make for a much better difficulty slider than meets the eye (Hell, I managed to use a LEDIAN of all things somewhat reliably thanks to the password system), and it saves y'all quite a lot of balancing work. I'm happy to hear these news.

     

    That aside, how easy is casual (or I guess story) mode going to be? Are you aiming for vanilla games difficulty?

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    Pretty happy with most of the changes said here, altho weirdly enough, with the changes to crawli's fight and it not having rain anymore, i wouldn't be surprised if that fight got harder, considering castform using sunny day and lobbing out weatherballs in the rainbow field isn't avaiable anymore,

    More mystery eggs is allways cool.

    Now i'm just waiting on more info about the Rift Battles and stuff because that's still the change that makes me scared for what's to come

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    Hmm... Not gonna lie, I am not a big fan of this comment section.  It does appear that this split with the fans has become toxic.  As I feel I must repeat this for clarity, I do not play intense, I play normal mode.  The changes currently announced do not sound so bad, so I will have to wait and see how things play out. 

    In regards to the fans.  Now correct me if I am wrong, but based on what Zumi said, it sounds like the devs are getting barraged by both "make this game easier" and "keep the challenge" players.  This constant back and forth makes it difficult for the devs to find ways to balance the game which leads to stress and demotivation.  Understandable.  But this means the complaining/critiquing is on both sides so I find it rather hypocritical only one side is being called out and demonized here.  Critique is critique.  It is not easy, it is not fun, but it is there to (hopefully) make the final product better by letting the creators know about problems from ALL perspectives, not just one.  With this feedback, the creators will do what they believe is best, which I am happy to wait for.  However, with things being made slightly easier, and with no further information on the password system and what that implies, it can feel like the "keep the challenge" players lost the war here. 

    Now nobody here is condoning harassing the devs and it is clear the devs do not want a split in this fanbase.  But quite a few of these comments feel as if they are 'kicking someone while they are down'.  It feels as if the "keep the challenge" side of the fanbase is getting targeted and attacked.  With that I would like to circle back around to the hypocrisy I mentioned earlier.  Both sides made critiques.  One side gets called out for a small few making harsh comments / harassing the devs.  The devs are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are forced to make a decision.  The "winning" side proceeds to make harsh comments / harass the "losing" side.  It is not a good look. 

    I stopped being a lurker because I really like this game and I was happy to give my opinion when the devs asked in a few threads.  But if this is what the fanbase has to offer, I might go back to lurking again.

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    Rejuvenation is My Favourite Game 

    i just play because for the Story AND Seeing funny Moments 

    And trust me 

    you Guys are doing a Wonderful Work 

    You Guys Have the Right to Decide what the game Has to be 

    Still, Do your Best and don t fotget to take some rest if you are tired 

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    The changes are welcome and I think passwords are an excellent idea, as they can give us players more options beyond a subjective difficult setting. Well done, and I'm sorry that people are being shitty to you guys

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    As a player of both reborn and rejuvenation I can say passwords are a wonderful idea they will help the player in hard situations. I'm happy to hear that the battles against Angie, Saki and Sota will be edited they were extremely difficult. The battle against Flora/Florin is manageable it's mostly just the putting my team to sleep all the time that makes it annoying. I hope that people stop being mean in comments and I look forward to all wonderful ideas the team has in the next update.

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    As someone who fucking loves the absurd challenge of intense mode, 1: It's your game guys, change it in the direction you want to change it. 2: Other intense mode lovers like me can suck it up. I play the game primarly cause the story is fucking awesome compared to many other fan games. I mean, seriously I love this game because of that. 

    Oh and 3: Also for you intense mode lovers, there is certain to be a mod for it moving into the game future, so just look for that you bloody dorks. The dev's don't want to keep making it, don't bash them for it. Seriously. 

     

    On direct note for this post: That crawli change is gonna be a huge change imo but I love it since that field is only used in one area and sparingly. 

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    Sounds like striking a good balance to me. I do enjoy the challenge but didn't enjoy getting completely walled on certain fights. Souta was especially demotivating and pulled me out of the story completely. Tyranitar w/ Smack Down was borderline useless and my perspective on the game changed from "tough but fair" to "arbitrarily difficult". I resigned myself to cheesing the fight instead.

     

    Looking through those changes, I think you're hitting the right areas. The main problem for me was that some fights required too narrow of a strategy to win legitimately. Smack Down taking 2 turns in a Sky Field made it basically useless so I gave up trying. I didn't even bother using my Fire pokemon against Crawley (Bug) and Angie (Ice) because they made Fire types more of a hindrance. IMO, if your Fire pokemon are a hindrance against both the Bug and Ice leaders then it's not really "challenging", it's just anti-fun. Happy to see it change.

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    Wonder if this new mystery egg for route 2 (not sure if the route 2 egg and Crawli reward egg are one and the same, so I'll just assume it is until further information) is in addition to the mystery egg you would get for trading the phantump egg or if that's being moved to the route 2 reward. Because I don't know about you, but the chance for two mystery eggs (especially if it's generous and has a smaller pool of chances i.e, pokemon like togepi and whatnot being more common. Since there's no legit way on getting said pokemon as of right now) sounds pretty neat.

     

    Other than that the updates look pretty good. There's likely more on the way, but the sky grampa stuff I'm glad about. Having tried the smack down stratagy only for it to fail kinda blows (though I'd sooner use perish song if push comes to shove) but I could at least get it. Gym leader signature moves gotta cover weaknesses and stratagies trainers could employ, but there's also a point where it becomes too much.

     

    Regardless I wish the team the best of luck when it comes to these balance changes!

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    • Veterans
    1 hour ago, VMeemes said:

    Wonder if this new mystery egg for route 2 (not sure if the route 2 egg and Crawli reward egg are one and the same, so I'll just assume it is until further information) is in addition to the mystery egg you would get for trading the phantump egg or if that's being moved to the route 2 reward. Because I don't know about you, but the chance for two mystery eggs (especially if it's generous and has a smaller pool of chances i.e, pokemon like togepi and whatnot being more common. Since there's no legit way on getting said pokemon as of right now) sounds pretty neat.

     

    The egg on route 2 and the reward for Crawli's stuff are two completely different new eggs, the mystery egg on route 3 is staying in place.

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    Oh cool! Yeah I didn't know that at the time so I took guesses. Three mystery eggs though. Sounds awesome, even if we currently don't know if either of the new eggs are also randomized. Slight shame with the Crawli egg (due to people likely already completing the event), but so it goes. The route 2 egg is pretty good though, since barring late game stuff it'll always remain the same. Regardless thanks for the unexpected answer!

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    Tbh I like the changes and I found them quite reasonable to be honest (Angie and anemo grandpa were horrible for me). Specially, I really like the new ways of changing the fields because I think that makes battles more interesting, since you can take different approaches when you make your strategy.

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  • Old Content:

    #################### | Map Updates (70%)

    #################### | Script Updates (20%)

    #################### | Misc (75%)

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    #################### | Total (55%)

     

    New Content: 

    #################### | Story (45%)

    #################### | Sidequests (10%)

    #################### | Scripting (0%)

    --------------------------------------------------

    #################### | Total (18%)

     

    Gen 8 DLC:

    #################### | Battle Sprites (80%)

    #################### | Moves (50%)

    #################### | Items (100%)

    #################### | Rosters (100%)

    #################### | Encounters (100%)

    --------------------------------------------------

    #################### | Total (93%)

    --------------------------------------------------

    #################### |V13.5 Total Completion (55%)

     

    aBkfBc8.png

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