Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 ...frankly, if we're still in situation 1 then I wouldn't be surprised if Nicki is a tailored maf too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nano4 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 can the tailor please make me appear as vigilante upon death please even if its fake ill have still lived part of my dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonDragon21 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, andracass said: If we leave Ame alive, it's practically guaranteed that they'll kill her tonight. If we leave her alive, we also give the Tailor the ability to give her a suit (give her another role) From what i see: we assume that Amber wasn't the bomb. Just like i said earlier, that maybe Amber was the real Vigilante and got a suit from the tailor to let him look like another role. 3 minutes ago, Amethyst said: u-um.. just to clarify, this whole time i thought the tailor role was a role that could be used each night.. is it a one time use role?? i wouldn't have known, since this is the first time i've played with this kind of role... i'm sorry if this is a stupid or obvious question.. I assumed you can use that ability every night, cause it was nowhere stated, that you can only use it once per game 56 minutes ago, Nano4 said: so what I've gathered from the posts are 1. I should get another gun tonight 2. I'm not very good at scum reading in forum settings 3. I'm gonna shoot someone I find suspicious anyway also remember that one member of the mafia is a fabricator, probably meaning they don't have a saboteur since that would be redundant and weird anyway give me my gun tonight and ill shoot a mafia a drug dealers promise is as good as a boy scouts Wouldn't it better to tell us who you are going to shoot. Cause after what just happened, i don't think anyone would give you a gun again for your randomshooting. It's not like you tried to differentiate, who might be the obvious suspicious characters now. 12 minutes ago, andracass said: So in an attempt to clarify my position, this is the chain of events that I'm pushing: N0: Mafia kills L'Belle. Vigilante kills no one. Alistair copies Ame. D1: Alistair is lynched and dies displaying Ame's role (vigilante). N1: Ame targets and kills Amber who then explodes; mafia targets ame; doctor protects ame and both kills fail. No other visits succeed on Amber. This is the only way that Amber can be the bomb and be killed without having anyone die (though it can be generalized so that the doctor only has to protect the person targeting the bomb, whether mafia or vigilante- Ame being the vigilante is still largely an assumption on my part). This would be the other chain of events: N0: Mafia kill fails. Vigilante kills L'Belle. D1: Alistair is lynched. N1: Amber is killed by the mafia. Nicki visits Amber. Neither visitor dies. (and, presumably) D2: Ame is lynched and shows up as a tailored role. The issue I see with this is that two people would have to have false roles- both Amber and Ame. Amber would have to be the actress and Ame would have to be tailored here, but if this is the case then a mafia member would have to have died last night. Thus either the mafia killed one of their own last night or this situation doesn't make sense. There are many other possibilities too. N0: Mafia kills L'Belle. Vigilante kills no one. Alistair (Actress) copies Ambers (Vigilante) role. D1: Alistair is lynched. N1: Tailor gives a bomb suit to Amber (Vigilante), Mafia kills Amber, Vigilante kills no one. D2: Ame can't be tailored and should show as her role if she gets lynched. And if we let her survive long enough the Tailor can just give her a suit covering her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, CrimsonDragon21 said: There are many other possibilities too. N0: Mafia kills L'Belle. Vigilante kills no one. Alistair (Actress) copies Ambers (Vigilante) role. D1: Alistair is lynched. N1: Tailor gives a bomb suit to Amber (Vigilante), Mafia kills Amber, Vigilante kills no one. D2: Ame can't be tailored and should show as her role if she gets lynched. This situation implies that the vigilante never shot, and that the tailor would give Amber a role that would immediately be proven false upon his death (since no one dies when they'd kill him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 If Nicki is telling the truth, it's clear than somebody has altered Amber's role display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonDragon21 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 minute ago, andracass said: This situation implies that the vigilante never shot, and that the tailor would give Amber a role that would immediately be proven false upon his death (since no one dies when they'd kill him). And thats what was discussed the whole time at the beginning of this dayphase. Even obvious things, look dubious when you are part of the uninformed majority. What i am saying is, with how much info we have right now, everything is possible. Also why does the Vigilante have to shoot, if he doesn't suspect anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 If someone dies as the vigilante, why wouldn't the actual vigilante shoot to prove they exist? 12 minutes ago, CrimsonDragon21 said: Even obvious things, look dubious when you are part of the uninformed majority. ...I don't see why a member of the town would ever say something like this. It's not helpful at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted March 4, 2019 Administrators Share Posted March 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, CrimsonDragon21 said: And thats what was discussed the whole time at the beginning of this dayphase. u-um.. was it?? because at the start of this dayphase you were saying things like this... 7 hours ago, CrimsonDragon21 said: All i did was speculate what could have possible, if Ali was indeed the actress. Additionally I was still convinced, that he was the real Vigilante, before Ames claim. t-that has nothing to do with amber being vigilante.. .so i know there's been a lot of new information and it's natural someone's stance would change.. b-but it feels like a way to just handwave the unlikelihood of this. ...and whether the vigilante was me or amber, there was definitely plenty of reason to suspect some people after alistair died claiming it..... l-like.. i don't really know what nicki is saying. i'm not trying to say she's lying, because i don't really know what happened.. but i definitely chose to visit amber with the intention of killing him last night. if i was roleblocked or something, i wasn't informed of it... so i don't really know how she could say that so confidently. i'm really confused... i'm sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, andracass said: If someone dies as the vigilante, why wouldn't the actual vigilante shoot to prove they exist? Because even if there were 2 dead people, we could never be sure whether one of them was killed by the vigilante or not. I mean, they could correspond to the maf kill + coyote, or maf kill + strongman... Not to mention that a random kill, even if it's to prove your innocence, is bad for town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 The N1 vigi kill wouldn't be random, though, since then you've had a chance to see how people acted during D1. And strongman doesn't kill separately from mafia. Other kill combinations technically exist, but given that no one had openly roleclaimed (other than nano) one could be reasonably certain that there'd be one vigi kill and one maf kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, andracass said: The N1 vigi kill wouldn't be random, though, since then you've had a chance to see how people acted during D1. And strongman doesn't kill separately from mafia. Other kill combinations technically exist, but given that no one had openly roleclaimed (other than nano) one could be reasonably certain that there'd be one vigi kill and one maf kill. I've played games in which the Strongman's only kill is independent from the factional kill. We don't know the mechanics in this case. @Bazaro, please? Anyway, the set of facts that best explain this conundrum involve Ame lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazaro Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Strongman and Mafia Kill are the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Alaris said: Anyway, the set of facts that best explain this conundrum involve Ame lying. I still think it's more likely that purp is lying, and I guess I don't see why it's less complicated if ame is lying, but I guess there's not much else I can say at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Simply because I'd see Nicki lying as a sloppy move, whereas Ame lying could've worked out if no-one else had visited Amber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 Why would ame's lying have worked, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Admittedly it wouldn't be a flawless strategy either but it could go like this: If Ame claimed vigi, we wouldn't lynch her at first because it's a rather useful role. If we asked her to prove it, she could simply use the factional mafia kill (so even watchers and trackers would believe it). If there were only one kill, she could've said that either the doc was protecting her or that the maf targeted a role protected by the doc or the jailer. These two roles would not claim easily, and the town would totally be in the dark regarding what's actually happening. She could even argue that the maf was playing mindgames on us by abstaining to kill so we end up lynching her. Nicki's claim on the other hand will readily be retaliated if Ame flips vigi. And she doesn't have much room to defend herself unless saying that Ame was tailored, which imo is unlikely. Anyway, one of the two is lying, so one of the two is maf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 4, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 4, 2019 Those roles would probably claim if they're not willing to risk losing the vigilante. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I wouldn't, and this is simply because imo the vigilante role hinges too much on sheer luck to the point that it can be detrimental to the town. I'm not a big fan of the role and I usually think that losing it is no big deal. And idk whether I'm the only one that thinks this or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted March 4, 2019 Administrators Share Posted March 4, 2019 i-if i've been tailored to look mafia then when i die it won't prove nicki wrong at all ... if she is mafia, nicki would know whether or not i've been tailored... so that's not really a threat for her.. and i know i am a detriment.. i mean, i killed an innocent last night after all. honesly, i don't value the role very highly.. it would be better on someone who actually knew the tells of the other players.. so i don't mind you getting rid of me for that reason, but... but i'm really concerned that if i flip mafia on a suit that it will lead you all down the wrong path for the rest of the game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nano4 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Amethyst said: i-if i've been tailored to look mafia then when i die it won't prove nicki wrong at all ... if she is mafia, nicki would know whether or not i've been tailored... so that's not really a threat for her.. and i know i am a detriment.. i mean, i killed an innocent last night after all. honesly, i don't value the role very highly.. it would be better on someone who actually knew the tells of the other players.. so i don't mind you getting rid of me for that reason, but... but i'm really concerned that if i flip mafia on a suit that it will lead you all down the wrong path for the rest of the game.. don't feel bad about killing an innocent, it leads to scum reads and less claim space I mean look at me I'm usually a HUGE detriment to town but you don't see me crying Edited March 4, 2019 by Nano4 forgot and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans andracass Posted March 5, 2019 Veterans Share Posted March 5, 2019 i don't think the roleplaying is helping right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickens Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Not even day 3 and we're 10 pages long. What a record 8 hours ago, Alaris said: I wouldn't, and this is simply because imo the vigilante role hinges too much on sheer luck to the point that it can be detrimental to the town. I'm not a big fan of the role and I usually think that losing it is no big deal. And idk whether I'm the only one that thinks this or not... Somebody please shoot Nano he is suspicious About the vigilante stuff, there's so much text!! Here's what I think about it, if you believe that Alistair if mafia then vote Ame, if you believe that ali is the real vigilante then vote Ame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace Stormkirk Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 since tailoring always stays and is repeatable i do believe mafia would be suiting themselves up as town then target town as mafia how was this not seen as op when being reviewed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I agree this is ridiculously OP. We will never know how many mafia are left, or the roles of ANYBODY. And I'm assuming the cop gets their report based on the alignment of the suit, not the real alignment of the player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonDragon21 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 17 hours ago, Amethyst said: u-um.. was it?? because at the start of this dayphase you were saying things like this... Well it started with discussing how Mafia didn't die and why Nano killed off Lia. It just took another turn after i mentioned going for the people who brought Ali to a lynch. And now we are here. Well with permanent suits and no confirmation of how many mafias are left. This makes this game a lot harder and more into scumreading over anything else. I am not sure if Cop reports will show the aligment based on the suits or their real alignment. @Bazaro Can you give us a confirmation on this? Also with that i don't think we can trust anyone who claims to be a Cop, cause with tailored roles, we can be fooled pretty easily. So i would rather love for Nicki to actually tell us how she knows exactly why Ame is lying. If she is actually mafia and gets her role tailored later into the cop, we are just following her blindly. [Eliminate] Nicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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