ZEL

You could argue that he has no reason to exist without Eve and Lumi, but Zero's story, IMO, is about learning that he's not meant to be alone. Thus the focus is on his interactions with the girls. Who he is privately isn't the central part of his role. Beyond their work for Team Meteor, ZEL's story is about each other. It'd be like saying that Saphira is uremarkable because if you take away Laura and Charlotte, a good part of her purpose crumbles completely But personally there's a lot that I can interpret or directly conclude about him from what we've already seen. Wall of text time! (tl;dr me describing Zero as I perceive him in the game) Edit: (screw it, putting it in a spoiler because long) I don't know if any of that makes him interesting to you. That's, after all, personal preference. But I think he very much is a distinct character in his own merit who could both exist outside of ZEL and is important to make ZEL the characters they are. Certainly not someone void who could be replaced with just about anyone.

Well, what Hunter said is: "The next best characters - Dr. Connal, Zero, and Radomus, are characters that thrive on the theme of the unknown in various degrees" Which I'd guess means that what makes these characters interesting is the potential they have, rather than just what's already been shown of them. There's a lot of blanks for us to fill in, lots of what's currently left to our imagination. Once more I should probably not open my mouth too wide, because I've probably had one too many conversations with Ice to even be able to talk about Zero from a neutral standpoint, but what would make him intriguing could be the potential he has to grow as a character. Zero as far as the game has shown so far, is just your average grunt at first, yes. But the turning point is the moment he becomes part of ZEL, because it puts him in a situation that will inevitably force him to undergo character development for the worse or the better. Zero is unable to escape the consequences of his actions. Lumi's diary mentions that after the ZEL incident, the "voices" of Zero and Eve wouldn't stop. This implies that at least for a while, ZEL weren't able to ignore each others' thoughts and possibly to some extent emotions. (I assume they eventually learned how to blend each other out.) This is interesting because it forces Zero into the uncomfortable situation of very personally experiencing Eve and Lumi's reactions and thoughts. Until they learn to block out what the other is thinking, he has no choice but to get glimpses of their minds. And I don't think that the majority of people would be unaffected by something like this. There are so many ways how he could react to the new situation, each changing depending on the possibilities for his background story and eventual destination. Sharing a mind with Eve and Lumi has the potential to make him empathize with them on a new level and force him to feel remorse, could make him care about them (or rather, make them care about each other). Or it could foster hatred and resentment against them. But in any case, he won't be able to treat them neutrally any more. He can't run away from the situation, he can't avoid the consequences and responsibilities that come with it. And unlike characters like, say, Simon, Zero can't just go "well then I'll just leave it all behind". Meteor isn't gonna let Eve go, so ZEL are stuck there no matter how much Zero could potentially regret his actions. Zero is a character with lots of potential simply because of ZEL's character concept. My own predictions and expectations of what he will develop into aside, what makes him interesting is all the things he could be. ...That, and what made him memorable to me personally is the same as for the rest of ZEL - I just think their character dynamic is incredible, and their interactions all stand out to me as favourite parts of the game.

Ah, when you put it that way then I get what you mean. Compared to how much screen time he gets, his development seems too drawn-out and moves at a very slow pace, which I guess can be slightly jarring compared to some characters whose development happens much faster (like Cal). I didn't mind the slow pace as much with Cain as I did with Fern because Cain overall alludes to his story more often than Fern does, or at least in less ambiguous ways. But you're right in that for a character with this much screen time, more could have been used to build his story and not just his personality. Personality-wise Cain got great build-up. I guess it might me more that when I hear "strong character" in this context, I separate it a bit from "good character", because when people criticize a character for being "weak" it's often to say that they don't stand out/aren't memorable, and I think Cain does a good job at being memorable, likable and hard to replace. His writing has flaws, but he's not two-dimensional, which is what I think of when I hear "weak character".

This makes me really sad still, for the same reason that I actually smiled when I saw Hunter put Zero on the list of stronger male characters. I mean, it's no secret I love this trio dearly. ZEL's interactions are easily some of my favourite scenes in the game, as their character dynamic is amazing. But with all the potential that Zero has for backstory and development, so far he's just "that one jerk" and it's too easy to read him as a character who only exists so Eve and Lumi can have their backstory. Which is decidedly not the role he's supposed to have. I probably have a different view on him because I know a bunch of things about them as pre-game characters, but knowing what kind of character he was created to be / what his character development is intended to do, I love him because there's some of my favourite tropes in action. It's just a bit disappointing to me that rather than reading between the lines, I have to write between them myself. I'll have to hug give you a handshake for putting Zero and Sigmund there. But with Cain I have to somewhat disagree with you. Somewhat. One thing that's very notable for me is how the gym leader characters especially often end up with their "quirks" being laid on too thick, at least for my taste. Cain is an amazing character both in concept and development, hidden behind sometimes simply too many 'Bi Pan the way' jokes. I've noticed that a lot of criticism for his character is about how his tendency to make lewd jokes is overdone and that the constant references to his sexuality make him seem like that's all he is. But Cain is also an incredibly caring character who is never, ever seen hesitating to take action when someone is in need of help with the slight exception of not wanting to give you the Wasteland key. And given that this part concerns his biggest weakness -family- that's understandable. And yet he gives you the key eventually, because he knows you need it to save the kids. I also enjoyed the interactions between him and Aya, the whole part about them finally starting to talk out their issues with each other. Slowly, but they're getting there. And you can see that they actually care about each other. Cain's story of running away from a family he didn't feel accepted by is pretty important to me, and a story like this involves a lot of people having to confront themselves. Aya admitting that she should have treated Cain differently when he presumably came out, Cain coming to understand what running away did to the rest of his family, both of them having to overcome their spite/bitterness for each other. I have to agree with you on Fern, however, because while he's another character that I really like for where he came from and where he's headed, I felt that at several points his "arrogant asshat" thing was a little too much in my face. I can see his character development, but there's still scenes where it feels like Fern's appearances are pointless save for the fight and reminding you he exists, because his development is static in them. Hardy I can't agree or disagree on yet. I personally love what we've seen of him so far, maybe because I really do like characters who have this "good big brother" / "supportive friend" vibe. I adore how Hardy takes care of Aya, and when you compare how he confronts Fern about his asshattery to how he doesn't interrupt Cain and Aya's jabs at each other/arguments/bickering, he also clearly knows when it's necessary to be protective of her, and when she has to sit out an uncomfortable situation. I can''t judge his possible character development yet because the whole Tania situation still needs to be resolved better, but what I've seen of Hardy makes him a very likable and potentially admirable character.

Hm, the only thing that speaks against Hypno IMO is that it is said to hypnotize people using its pendulum, so I'd be inclined to believe that whatever Pokémon is stuck in the PULSE would be one that has a larger range/doesn't need the attention of the person. (Though in the anime it did use "sleep waves". But if we were to reference the anime, then we'd also have people acting like Pokémon in their hypnotized state.) I still feel like it'd be more likely to be pokémon less associated with having to directly confront the subject of the hypnosis.

Congrats, Viri! Y'know, I like listening to people's rambles about things, and yours ever so often end up being some of the most interesting. You're a pleasant person to converse with and I like seeing you around, even if we don't talk /that/ much (compared to others, at least, I guess). Here's to more of that!

Ody wanted this QB'd

Hey there, and... welcome back to Reborn? Welcome? Welcome to the forum part? Hi You seem like a nice person to talk to from what little experience I've made so far, so that's great~

I always manage to get sidetracked somehow. For example I'll be drawing, then look up something about the anatomy of whatever I'm drawing, and half an hour later I'm still sitting there, reading up on animal behavior. There's always the one or other thing that catches my eye and I just /have/ to learn more about it, even if it's completely irrelevant to my task. Also, people. It seems that whenever I actually have something to work on, suddenly I'll find myself messaged by at least five different people, see three group chats go crazy active, and am called over to a forum/showdown.

Ohshit, now there's TWO Dans! Reminds me, Dan Appreciation Week when? ...Err anyway, hi there, and welcome to Reborn c: I'd say our forum has a decent size for someone who's still trying to get into the feeling for it, so don't worry, it's not moving too fast, but also definitely not slow. Lurking for a bit can probably help, and if you're looking to just randomly chat with a bunch of us, you're welcome to join us on the showdown server. That said, you better enjoy your time here, because there's no escape from this little hellhole :')

I still cannot believe you made me say "Lin" and "hot" in the same sentence today and it had nothing to do with dropping her into an active volcano. Loving the Serra appreciation you've got going on, by the way. She really deserves it, such an underappreciated character! (Her dialogue is great ok?)

Oh I wasn't trying to make fun or anything, I hope it didn't come across that way ^^" I can believe that they're hard to draw - Zero is already androgynous enough physically (which I find pretty difficult to draw), and with ZEL's odd fashion choices it's a bit of a guessing game what they are even aiming for. I still don't understand their vest tbh (when my friend drew them I just told him that if he couldn't make sense of it either, anything black would look just as good :'D).

After what Ame said about how they have to somehow try and agree on a style that they all can tolerate, I am entirely convinced that this is what Zero sometimes thinks when he sees himself in the mirror. It's cute to see them with their team, by the way <3

I never even realized I haven't seen you on the forums so far, oml. Seen you on the server so much, though! I don't think we've ever talked much, but I've been readong along with your nuzlocke talk on more than one occasion c: You seem like a cool person is all I can say. Welcome to the forums, and don't worry, they're just as much a part of Hell as the server~

Frankfurt, huh? I almost got lost there once. For someone who lives in a big city I'm pretty awful at navigating them. But stupid jokes about your names aside, welcome to Reborn! I'll be the last person to tell you to change anything about your team, considering my own are pretty much built around the flawless, highly advanced concept of "idk I like this one, let's use it". I dragged a Noctowl around for 13 badges, I'm sure you'll do fine :') Anyway, enjoy your stay here!

It's 3am, I'm listening to stuff while aimlessly writing meaningless snippets for stories of mine, and I have an addition for this thread. Sorry for the revival, can't resist. Poets of the Fall - Change How I wish you'd only see how your own choices make your dream come out shining true, before it can leave you I wish that you could see how your own choices make your dream come out shining true all around you

What I learned from this is that Ice is a beautiful princess, that Cadence and Spike Dan and Ame saved the Crystal Empire Drool Planet, and that Jan is the worst meme yet. I am amazed.

I didn't use them at all, but I have to admit that's mostly because I don't like monkeys .-. Monkeys creep me out. Pansage is a bit cuter than the rest, but I never needed them for the gym, so I just dropped them into the box forever well ok no, until I needed them evolved to complete my dex.

Came here for the angry Zero you promised me, lost it at facepalming Solaris Please never stop, I need more of this all in my life (Now let me find the tumblr post because I was asleep and it's tragic I only got to see this now)

Oh dear lord, the Aussies are taking over, now there's another one of them ...Just kidding, of course. Welcome to the forums, enjoy your stay c: also, Goodra's the second cutest dragon, nice choice~

Happy Birthday, son! You're super fun to talk to/hang out with, as I already mentioned when I did that thing where I gushed about my friends here. But since it's your birthday, guess I'll repeat it because you deserve to hear it c: Honestly, you're a cheerful fella, and you always get a chuckle outta me somehow. Glad to have you around! Here's to a good year - enjoy your cake~

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HUGS I'm sure you can use some birthday hugs I'll give you birthday hugs hugs I'd bake a cake but I'm terrible at that so maybe better not. As my bro in law once said, coal can be bought in stores. I hope you have a great birthday <3

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SMOLKA UM I MEAN IKEA ERR AIKA I hope you'll have time to drop by more often soon again; really feels like the chat is missing something when you're not around. Bibs is taking good care of your typos while you're busy kicking school's ass, but we'll all be happy to have you back again. I hope you have a great birthday! You're a little less smol now c:

I will burn this field and nobody will be able to stop me. I don't need someone trapping my 'mons on there for a three turn trip to hell, no sir. [noises of excitement but also terror]

Heyyy, happy birthday, Colin! You're always a friendly face around the server, definitely feels odd when you're not around as much o: I hope you have a great birthday and lots of cake~