Veterans Azeria Posted December 25, 2017 Veterans Share Posted December 25, 2017 Water: 16 Grass : 24 Dragon : 14 Electric : 19 Steel : 13 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 21 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 22 Flying : 18 Fairy: 1 Rock : 19 Poison : 18 Psychic : 20 Shinei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul25 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) Hurt Fairy, Heal Fight Water: 16 Grass : 24 Dragon : 14 Electric : 19 Steel : 13 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 22 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 22 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 18 Psychic : 20 Rip Fairy Edited December 25, 2017 by Paul25 Removed fairy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chim Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 There are too many Pika-clones. Hurt Electric, heal water. Water: 17 Grass : 24 Dragon : 14 Electric : 17 Steel : 13 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight 22 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 22 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 18 Psychic : 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUEnd Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Water: 17 Grass: 25 Dragon : 14 Electric : 17 Steel : 13 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight 22 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 22 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 18 Psychic :18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Awesome_One Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Hurt Steel & Heal Poison Water: 17 Grass : 25 Dragon : 14 Electric : 17 Steel : 11 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 22 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 22 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 19 Psychic : 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chim Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Uh Fairy was already out. And you missed like 3 other lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Awesome_One Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Chim My apologies. I have no idea how I missed those. I have corrected it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 So, Fairies are down, but Dragons are alive? Preposterous... Madness I say! Hurt Dragon, heal Bug. Water: 17 Grass : 25 Dragon : 12 Electric : 17 Steel : 11 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 22 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 23 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 19 Psychic : 18 @Awesome_One Please, fix your votes... See the one above you (@HUEnd's) and correct the neutral values... (the ones you didn't change re all wrong). (Damn, I'm sorry for the wrong tag @LykosHand... Still a tad sleepy!) PS. Mine is double-checked, so no errors have been passed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Why heal Water tho? It's the most toxic type in the game (most stall mons of any type, most badly designed mons, most annoying weather condition. It has it all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LykosHand Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Jess No problem xD Water: 17 Grass : 25 Dragon : 12 Electric : 17 Steel: 12 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 20 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 23 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 19 Psychic : 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverAngelus Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Heal Dragon, hurt Bug Water: 17 Grass : 25 Dragon : 13 Electric : 17 Steel: 12 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 20 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 21 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 19 Psychic : 18 Honestly, why does bug have that much? It's....preposterous. @Jess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @SilverHelio Maybe because it isn't choke full of forced-to-be-OP mons, like Dragon... LOL, by the way, I like how you promote the Xmas spirit by being resentful and practically seeking revenge for my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted December 25, 2017 Veterans Share Posted December 25, 2017 Tfw bug is a shit type but has a lot of OP mons and moves itself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Azeria Well, Mega Scizor and Volcarona I guess are very strong. But in no way it has more OP mons than Dragon has. And people killed Fairy types cause it is the only thing that made Dragons balanced. It's funny in my eyes that the very same people whine about Meta balance and want to even delete Fairy types! @Wolfox @seki108 Focus guys! We have to kill Dragon and avenge Fairies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Does bug have good mons? Hell yes. On the level of Dragon? Far from it. Some bugs are amazing but dragons have much more of that amazing. and can I just say that if Game Freak just kept control over how strong they made dragons Fairy never even had to have been a thing in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Wolfox Exactly! Dragons pre-Fairies was the closest thing to Gen I-Psychic when it comes to being overpowered. Hits neutrally everything apart from Steel? Check. Resists all basic types (grass, fire, electric, water)? Check. Gets hit super-effectively only by itself? Check. The only counter to Dragon was an even faster Dragon! Nice balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted December 25, 2017 Veterans Share Posted December 25, 2017 Heracross, Mega Pinsir, Scolipede, Pheromosa, Buzzwole, Base Scizor, bloody Quiver Dance, Mega Beedrill, Araquanid, Volcarona, Mega Scizor. The irony of this is that the 'OP' dragons are generally the Pseudos/Legendaries, so the number is actually just about even lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Azeria LOL, you count Heracross as OP... With its low speed and 4x weakness to one of the best offensive types, Flying... Scolipede is very OP too, with its shallow moveset and Baton Pass ban. Quiver Dance is equivalent to Dragon Dance, so don't whine about it... It just makes up for the (really low) base stats most bugs have. Only 1-2 of them can actually set up with it without getting OHKO'ed by a Rock coverage move. Which is much more frequent than the Ice/Fairy coverage Dragons need to get nullified with their crapload of key resistances. Yes, Mega Beedrill is very OP, with its paper thin defences. And Araquanid, wow, first ever Bug/Water type that actually resists Fire! Too OP for a type that had zero Water types for 6 generations... Let's count Dragons now. Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, Haxorus, Goodra, Kommo'o, Latias, Latios, Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem, Altaria, Zygarde, Noivern, Guzzlord, Naganadel, Drampa, Hydreigon, Giratina, Palkia, Dialga. Yes... About even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 And here's where the balance between Dragons and Bugs stops tho. Dragons have enough strong mons, bugs have a lot of strong mons. Where dragons outshine bugs is balance tho. Where things Like volc and sciz or amazingly strong, they all have some glaring weaknesses that greatly balance them out. like Scizor having an 8x weakness combined with decently low spdef and low speed (while it's also it's only weakness...) and volc is pretty fast and have a great set up move, rocks kinda send it home... Dragons really only fear one of their weaknesses, being fairy, while being able to deal with the other two with relevant ease. Ice is an extremely frail type, dragon beats itself and even fairy can be dealt with by the secondary types usually being good against the secondary types of the common fairies) @Jess you forgot to even count their mega's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 @Wolfox I didn't even mention Kingdra, Flygon, Turtonator, Mega Charizard X, Mega Sceptile and Dragalge, considering them the more "baalanced" Dragons! Imagine that! Now maybe we should compare the weakest Dragons, something like Tyrantrum, Haxorus or Altaria to something like Ariados, Masquerain or Beautifly.... Oh, I guess I'll have my Masquerain Quiver Dance and OHKO the... WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT GOT OUTSPED AND OHKO'ED?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I wouldn't call Haxorus one of the weakest, as it's pretty damn strong. Maybe Drudigon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Yes, Druddigon is quite bad, mostly thanks to its non-existant speed... I need not say any more, since my point has been made clear. Bugs are typically early-game, fast-evolution mons that help early and fall off soon, with few mentioned exceptions. Dragons are late game powerhouses with much better stats, much higher bulk and better resistances and unparalleled when it comes to brute force and offensive coverage. My final word will be one. Rayquaza.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted December 25, 2017 Veterans Share Posted December 25, 2017 Quote Tfw bug is a shit type but has a lot of OP mons and moves itself.. My original point: Bug in itself is a garbage type, that's always been the intention for it. The thing is that it's moves and Pokemon; especially the higher end ones are ridiculously strong; Spoiler Scizor is notorious for being a fan favourite, both for design and just how good and effective it is; and it does so with the 2 of the worst offensive typings in the game, just because of how versatile it's stats and moveset allow it to be, especially with Technician Bullet Punch often negating the fact that it's slow. Volcarona? A Pokemon -literally- only kept in check by stealth rocks. This thing is by far the best sweeper in the game, a single Quiver Dance being gotten off often marks the end since if it gets the opportunity to dance, it snowballs out of control. It's absolutely terrifying to face and there's a reason bug type teams often center themselves around it. It's a monster, plain and simple, and it does so with an absolutely garbage typing just because of how boosted it's movepool and stats are. Heracross? Just take a look at what this does to teams, between Flame Orb and Scarf sets both being incredibly threatening due to it's stats, they both also have very different checks/counters due to the formers raw initial power breaking past the latter's more bulky checks and vice versa. Moxie is a broken ability, which is very evident on this thing. Scolipede, a reminder that Speed Boost on a Pokemon with actual offensive and supportive prowess is incredibly threatening, getting stuff like Blaziken banned and Sharpedo, Scolipede and Yanmega moved up many tiers. It's moveset is hardly shallow when it gets all the coverage it needs to clean up teams like it's supposed to, with adequately high powered moves at that. Araquanid? Alright, tell me stuff like Huge Power, Water Bubble etc isn't insanely good, especially with it now having Sticky Web. Mega Beedrill's paper thin defenses are overshadowed by the fact that it's stats are incredibly lopsided along with Adaptabillity, doubled STAB power y'know. You can compare their weaker Pokemon but the difference their is that they in turn too serve entirely different purposes, with the weaker bug types often being early game Pokemon while weaker Dragons are often just your run of the mill ones. Ended up spoilering that out cuz Text Wall. Idk why I even went that ham on it, Dragon isn't even my favourite type, Ghost is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Volcarona? A Pokemon -literally- only kept in check by stealth rocks. OH NO! A mon blocked by the most common entry hazard that almost every team runs! It should be outlawed! Now, I know how strong volcarona is, but calling it "the best sweeper in the game" is a big overstatement. base 100 speed is high, especially with a quiver up. But then there's the fact that getting it out to get that quiver up isn't always a done deal. because the earlier mentiond rocks and there still being counters/checks to it regardless of the quiver. Most bugs (as I said earlier) have one or more glaring weaknesses. Araquanid's ability, for example, only works for one of it's stab types, and it's attack stats are nothing to write home about (also it's not the best sticky web user because of low speed). Heracross is an extremely strong mon, but suffers from the same issue Buzzwhole suffers from: speed. include to that a pretty fact type that blows it out of the water before it's even taking a bath and well, done. mega beedrill I won't say shit about because I've been on the bad end of that thing enough times. Scolipede as well, but I'll mention that without the set up it really doesn't do that much. Scizor, again I can;t say many bad things about it. hell it's the best fairy hunter in the damn game. but the issues it has are pretty glaring when he's faced with them. low speed and a huge weakness to any special fire type kinda blows it out of the water, or into the water? Now here's an issue I personally have with dragons: they got out of control. They were meant to be an extremely strong type from the get go, but GF just decided to not control it for a while by giving them extremely good secondary types (example is Kingdra, only weak to Dragon pre fairies and only weak to dragon and fairies from gen 6. You can not say that is not a bit too much) and only one type that actually resisted it in steel (which in turn did need a nerf, which thankfully it kinda got by letting ghost and dark of all things hit it neutral), so dragons needed a nerf badly. And while yes some types getting buffed to be stronger against dragons might have also been one way to do it, Fairies were the better Option IMO. And naming some bug types "OP" while not naming dragons who are at least equally strong is kinda unfair (looking at you chomp, looking at you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Water: 15 Grass : 25 Dragon : 13 Electric : 17 Steel: 13 Fire : 18 Ground : 21 Ice : 22 Fight : 20 Normal : 18 Ghost : 18 Dark : 19 Bug : 21 Flying : 18 Rock : 19 Poison : 19 Psychic : 18 Oh look, this turned into a debate over which type is the most OP/garbage... how unforeseen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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