Did a fresh v13 start and I see noone mentioning these scenes

[Lucifer Morningstar]

21 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Based on what? Where did 75 years of existential age came from? What was the family and girl in the prologue? The one in the cliff mansion and then in some castle? And then third one in Theolia estate, Marianette. 

The girl in the prologue as well as the girl in the Kugearan arc are established as Maria, it's this same girl whom Indraid and Indraid alone addresses as Marionette. I believe he even says something in the prologue like "Your name is no longer Maria".

 

The Maria in the prologue is frightened when the maids repeatedly call out to 'Marionette' and tries to shout in protest, "My name is Maria" and the Marionette in the Crysolia Manor arc remembers that her name is Maria after giving us our third badge.  

When we first enter the manor in this arc Indraid also establishes that he recognizes us, clearly this is from our venture to Kugearen for the first Gardevoir event. 

 

Think about it, a girl who ends up getting sacrificed is addressed as what a string puppet is called. Sounds like depersonalizing to me. 

[Cyphre]

1 minute ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

The girl in the prologue as well as the girl in the Kugearan arc are established as Maria, it's this same girl whom Indraid and Indraid alone addresses as Marionette. 

Which Maria and Marianette? From which time, from which world, parallel or not? Since she woke up in front of a mirror, was any of this illusion, was it real? Because Anathea clearly got shanked and sacrificed in the prologue in the seaside mansion and then also killed in Theolia mansion, meaning those were 2 different Anatheas. It is more than likely we have seen 4 different versions, one from sea mansion, one from another castle, Marianette, and then Melia. 
 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

2 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Which Maria and Marianette? From which time, from which world, parallel or not? Since she woke up in front of a mirror, was any of this illusion, was it real? Because Anathea clearly got shanked and sacrificed in the prologue in the seaside mansion and then also killed in Theolia mansion, meaning those were 2 different Anatheas. It is more than likely we have seen 4 different versions, one from sea mansion, one from another castle, Marianette, and then Melia. 
 

 

We didn't actually see Anathea's death in the prologue. The Tangrowth attack from the Kugearen arc happened outside the front door and the prologue is Maria's perspective so she would not have seen it. 

We see Anathea on the ritual table but not if she was alive when she was placed there. 

 

Even if we have seen parallel Marias it still doesn't guarantee that Marionette is a 3rd person. Marionette could still be 2 different names for the same person in all universes. 

Indraid clearly told her in the prologue, "Your name is no longer Maria". 

[Cyphre]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

Even if we have seen parallel Marias it still doesn't guarantee that Marionette is a 3rd person. Marionette could still be 2 different names for the same person in all universes. 

Indraid clearly told her in the prologue, "Your name is no longer Maria". 

It also easily could be 4 different people from different worlds, resets, timelines, times e.t.c. 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

5 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

It also easily could be 4 different people from different worlds, resets, timelines, times e.t.c. 

 

I've never denied that I'm just saying that's not what I believe. 

 

Also consider this, we affected the events whilst we were participating in the Theolias' lives in Kugearen.

I believe it was Gardevior who set up the Shiftery attack on Anathea intending her murder, she seemed rather uncomfortable and eager to get us out of the manor when she found out we'd saved Anathea and Venom worked up the police at the manor door. 

 

Perhaps we changed what occurred in the prologue. 

[Cyphre]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

I believe it was Gardevior who set up the Shiftery attack on Anathea intending her murder, she seemed rather uncomfortable and eager to get us out of the manor when she found out we'd saved Anathea and Venom worked up the police at the manor door. 

Well yeah, thats an established fact for years. 
 

3 minutes ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

Perhaps we changed what occurred in the prologue. 

This was an entirely different manor. Maybe timeline. Maybe world. Its just wild speculation at this point, so im stopping here.


My point is it's impossible to arrive to one answer at this time about all the Melias/Marianettas. 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

1 minute ago, Cyphre said:

My point is it's impossible to arrive to one answer at this time about all the Melias/Marianettas. 

 

I never tried to arrive at an answer, just offer my theories. 

 

I'll admit that the most likely scenario given what we find out in chapter 15 is that the prologue and the events we were involved in with the Theolias were at least two different resets. 

[kithas]

6 minutes ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

 

I never tried to arrive at an answer, just offer my theories. 

 

I'll admit that the most likely scenario given what we find out in chapter 15 is that the prologue and the events we were involved in with the Theolias were at least two different resets. 

But both places have a connection with this timeline: we found Chrisolia Manor in the past, in Kugearen, inhabited by the Theolias (in the "present", as Chrisolia Hotel, by the way) and the house from the prologue/dead scene with Crescent, we find it in Zorrialyn's coast, also decrepit and old, also with the Theolias' portrait.

The mansion from the sewers (Marianette's) and the one from the past (Maria's) have different insides, but it could be easily explained as gameplay or something like that.

[SoulN7]

8 hours ago, kithas said:

But both places have a connection with this timeline: we found Chrisolia Manor in the past, in Kugearen, inhabited by the Theolias (in the "present", as Chrisolia Hotel, by the way) and the house from the prologue/dead scene with Crescent, we find it in Zorrialyn's coast, also decrepit and old, also with the Theolias' portrait.

The mansion from the sewers (Marianette's) and the one from the past (Maria's) have different insides, but it could be easily explained as gameplay or something like that.

I never understood why that house is so important. In the real world, it's just an old house, but with the portrait there, still unknown why. In "dreams", it is said that it is like "our soul's reflection" (pure heart maybe?).

And this location appeared twice, so the two times when MC died (not counting Madame X's intervention in the past). But why that place, of all? 

[SharlaSmith44]

10 hours ago, S7rife said:

I never understood why that house is so important. In the real world, it's just an old house, but with the portrait there, still unknown why. In "dreams", it is said that it is like "our soul's reflection" (pure heart maybe?).

And this location appeared twice, so the two times when MC died (not counting Madame X's intervention in the past). But why that place, of all? 

The details of the house show it's the house from the prologue. Which, to me, only raises more questions. Like how is there when we know the manor still exists [it was converted into the hotel]? Is it from a reset? If so, how is it there still?

[Bok_Choy777]

I'd like to add to this discussion.  I'm gonna dump a lot of info here  and maybe we can all piece something together. I do believe in the alt universe theory but we just don't know where in the timeline all of this happens.

 

In the beginning of the prologue, you can find a book as Maria that says Kugeran City is under construction or "is near completion" or something like that. If we assume this is in the same timeline as the main story and not an alt universe, then this should've been before the family even moved to Marble Mansion. When talking to Indriad as Maria, he says "Oh hello, Marian-" (Marianette) but cuts off and says "Maria", which means that he already had planned out all of the events that will follow. 

 

From the flashback of Anathea talking to the witch about the love spell, we know that she was already aware of Indriad's abuse on her, but in this scene she has black hair. I assume she hasn't had kids yet in this scene, so we assume she hasn't had kids yet. The black hair was also recorded in past Hiyoshi hospital records as she had a key shaped scar (Archetype removal probably). Now it is possible that her hair was dyed black as Archetype drainage doesn't remove the user still having access to its power and some features due to having the Archetype stay permanent, such as the blonde hair. Anyways its weird to say her black hair (archetype removed) was before her 4 kids since in Erin's flashback Anathea had blonde hair. Like why would Indriad re-inject the Archetype in??? Makes no sense really. So possibly its just a hair dye and maybe the witch was located near Hiyoshi city (pure speculation soz)

 

You'd think that the time line doesn't make sense since in the prologue Maria was treated as the only child, despite the fact we know this would've happened after Erin Alice Allen were thrown into the unknown dimension. The fact there's no black Gardevoir here also suggests the prologue happened after the events of Marble Mansion. So once again this contradicts the book in the prologue that says Kugearan was still being built.

 

Thinking of it this way, it logically doesn't add up for the prologue to be after the Marble Mansion events (since Anathea is already dead), or for the prologue to be before the Marble Mansion events (why is only Maria here?), making the prologue either an alternative reality/dream etc. The Mariannete Mansion is also completely different in layout to the Marble Mansion, and seems to be larger in size overall, with more gates, more garden, etc. Indirad in this Mansion also recognised the player, which means it is possibly consistent with the past (but that doesn't make sense because we know the Chrysola hotel is now what stands upon the Marble Mansion),  so again the Mariannete Mansion where we get our 3rd  gym badge is 100% from an alternative universe. The fact the gym badge had the same chip and was registered as a normal badge fits well with this theory.

 

Now the most intriguing part of all of this is that you find a book about "How to stop child abuse" or something similar in the hut during the blacksteeple arc, which had the name Anathea written on it. Currently, there is no evidence from the game that can link this book being at this location to any other plot point. Sure, this means that this book would've been in Anathea's possession while the children were with them (or just Maria), but then why is it near Blacksteeple? Especially since Anathea already died, and honestly from the  past arcs there's a very low chance she would've made it there herself. Well, unless its another alternative universe situation. We know that there is a second Blacksteeple Castle in the sky near the one we've been too, protected by a barrier. Perhaps this is a way to an alternative dimension? (Speculation again)

 

From Rune, we learn about Anathea and the witch. (this means it could've happened in any timeline or alt universe)

From us, we learn about Anathea's records in Hiyoshi hospital (she was admitted earlier than when the MC fainted), so Anathea has been out alone by herself. But isn't Hiyoshi far from Kugearan? How'd she get there without a boat like Anju's? This part I think is the missing link (because this must've happened in the MC's timeline)

Prologue: Anathea was alive but then we don't know what happened to her right before she was  brought to the  altar by Indriad

Past Marble Mansion: She must've met the MC and Venam after witnessing Erin Alice  Allen thrown into the unknown dimension, then dies

Book in Blacksteeple hut: No link to any of above events

 

One thing I find interesting is in the prologue, Indirad sacrificing Anathea and Maria was for them to "avoid  the calamity", so this could be signifying a world reset or an alternative universe travel.

Maria staring at the mirror remembering what just happened to her could also be one of those moments like Mosely where she remembers the events that occured in the alternative version of her in another universe. Same thing could be said about  Mariannette remembering her identity as Maria, although I guess that whole are was in an alternative universe so idek anymore haha

 

The main question that still exists, is even if there were alternative universes, how do characters from those realities impact on the one MC's currently in? Maybe the soul stone relates somehow? Maybe the memory overlapping thing like Mosely? Maybe realities taking over others (such as Mariannette Mansion tress and bushes materialising in Gearan City during the arc)? Could you overlap with characters like this? Imagine if  Melia came with Venam and MC to the mansion, what would she remember? 

 

Another thing is Indriad has never seen Melia. HMMM I wonder how both would react? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BJ7171]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:44 PM, JK’S said:

I want to know why variya chose Crescent to co-host. I understand that was our closest friend at the time the contract was made, but surely there were better options.

I also really wanna know what actually happened to the A-class, the backstory we get in v13 is a distorted version of what actually happened, because of what crescent did to Eden

 

Could someone pls explain the MCs relationship with eden? I don't rly understand it.

[kithas]

From what I know Eden was Clear and Kieran's boss, who was destroyed by Crescent. I don't thint the MC has any relationship with them. 

Regarding Anthea, we've seen her die twice: one in the Zorrialyn house and one in the Manor. And in both times we've seen a relationship between Maria and Marianette: in the prologue, and in Kugearen-the manor in the sewers. It seems like Indriad was trying to harvest the Archetype from Maria (after banishing her three siblings) and changing to an Alternative Universe/World Reset when failing. 

[Cyphre]

21 minutes ago, kithas said:

From what I know Eden was Clear and Kieran's boss

"Boss"? Unless i misremember something, they only called him the third guy. 

[Tomek]

11 hours ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

I'd like to add to this discussion.  I'm gonna dump a lot of info here  and maybe we can all piece something together. I do believe in the alt universe theory but we just don't know where in the timeline all of this happens.

 

In the beginning of the prologue, you can find a book as Maria that says Kugeran City is under construction or "is near completion" or something like that. If we assume this is in the same timeline as the main story and not an alt universe, then this should've been before the family even moved to Marble Mansion. When talking to Indriad as Maria, he says "Oh hello, Marian-" (Marianette) but cuts off and says "Maria", which means that he already had planned out all of the events that will follow. 

 

From the flashback of Anathea talking to the witch about the love spell, we know that she was already aware of Indriad's abuse on her, but in this scene she has black hair. I assume she hasn't had kids yet in this scene, so we assume she hasn't had kids yet. The black hair was also recorded in past Hiyoshi hospital records as she had a key shaped scar (Archetype removal probably). Now it is possible that her hair was dyed black as Archetype drainage doesn't remove the user still having access to its power and some features due to having the Archetype stay permanent, such as the blonde hair. Anyways its weird to say her black hair (archetype removed) was before her 4 kids since in Erin's flashback Anathea had blonde hair. Like why would Indriad re-inject the Archetype in??? Makes no sense really. So possibly its just a hair dye and maybe the witch was located near Hiyoshi city (pure speculation soz)

 

You'd think that the time line doesn't make sense since in the prologue Maria was treated as the only child, despite the fact we know this would've happened after Erin Alice Allen were thrown into the unknown dimension. The fact there's no black Gardevoir here also suggests the prologue happened after the events of Marble Mansion. So once again this contradicts the book in the prologue that says Kugearan was still being built.

 

Thinking of it this way, it logically doesn't add up for the prologue to be after the Marble Mansion events (since Anathea is already dead), or for the prologue to be before the Marble Mansion events (why is only Maria here?), making the prologue either an alternative reality/dream etc. The Mariannete Mansion is also completely different in layout to the Marble Mansion, and seems to be larger in size overall, with more gates, more garden, etc. Indirad in this Mansion also recognised the player, which means it is possibly consistent with the past (but that doesn't make sense because we know the Chrysola hotel is now what stands upon the Marble Mansion),  so again the Mariannete Mansion where we get our 3rd  gym badge is 100% from an alternative universe. The fact the gym badge had the same chip and was registered as a normal badge fits well with this theory.

 

Now the most intriguing part of all of this is that you find a book about "How to stop child abuse" or something similar in the hut during the blacksteeple arc, which had the name Anathea written on it. Currently, there is no evidence from the game that can link this book being at this location to any other plot point. Sure, this means that this book would've been in Anathea's possession while the children were with them (or just Maria), but then why is it near Blacksteeple? Especially since Anathea already died, and honestly from the  past arcs there's a very low chance she would've made it there herself. Well, unless its another alternative universe situation. We know that there is a second Blacksteeple Castle in the sky near the one we've been too, protected by a barrier. Perhaps this is a way to an alternative dimension? (Speculation again)

 

From Rune, we learn about Anathea and the witch. (this means it could've happened in any timeline or alt universe)

From us, we learn about Anathea's records in Hiyoshi hospital (she was admitted earlier than when the MC fainted), so Anathea has been out alone by herself. But isn't Hiyoshi far from Kugearan? How'd she get there without a boat like Anju's? This part I think is the missing link (because this must've happened in the MC's timeline)

Prologue: Anathea was alive but then we don't know what happened to her right before she was  brought to the  altar by Indriad

Past Marble Mansion: She must've met the MC and Venam after witnessing Erin Alice  Allen thrown into the unknown dimension, then dies

Book in Blacksteeple hut: No link to any of above events

 

One thing I find interesting is in the prologue, Indirad sacrificing Anathea and Maria was for them to "avoid  the calamity", so this could be signifying a world reset or an alternative universe travel.

Maria staring at the mirror remembering what just happened to her could also be one of those moments like Mosely where she remembers the events that occured in the alternative version of her in another universe. Same thing could be said about  Mariannette remembering her identity as Maria, although I guess that whole are was in an alternative universe so idek anymore haha

 

The main question that still exists, is even if there were alternative universes, how do characters from those realities impact on the one MC's currently in? Maybe the soul stone relates somehow? Maybe the memory overlapping thing like Mosely? Maybe realities taking over others (such as Mariannette Mansion tress and bushes materialising in Gearan City during the arc)? Could you overlap with characters like this? Imagine if  Melia came with Venam and MC to the mansion, what would she remember? 

 

Another thing is Indriad has never seen Melia. HMMM I wonder how both would react? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a theory that world didnt reset 1 but 2 times because MC has Adrest with him and doesnt remember the reset. So MC might do 1st reset but 2nd reset could be done by someone like Madame X or Kieran and Clears boss cause they know everything. Also i just remembered the scene in Blakeory Atheneum where Erin asks Melia that if she is sure that she is simply traveling to past with time crystals? hmmm 

[SoulN7]

15 hours ago, Bok_Choy777 said:

I'd like to add to this discussion.  I'm gonna dump a lot of info here  and maybe we can all piece something together. I do believe in the alt universe theory but we just don't know where in the timeline all of this happens.

 

In the beginning of the prologue, you can find a book as Maria that says Kugeran City is under construction or "is near completion" or something like that. If we assume this is in the same timeline as the main story and not an alt universe, then this should've been before the family even moved to Marble Mansion. When talking to Indriad as Maria, he says "Oh hello, Marian-" (Marianette) but cuts off and says "Maria", which means that he already had planned out all of the events that will follow. 

 

From the flashback of Anathea talking to the witch about the love spell, we know that she was already aware of Indriad's abuse on her, but in this scene she has black hair. I assume she hasn't had kids yet in this scene, so we assume she hasn't had kids yet. The black hair was also recorded in past Hiyoshi hospital records as she had a key shaped scar (Archetype removal probably). Now it is possible that her hair was dyed black as Archetype drainage doesn't remove the user still having access to its power and some features due to having the Archetype stay permanent, such as the blonde hair. Anyways its weird to say her black hair (archetype removed) was before her 4 kids since in Erin's flashback Anathea had blonde hair. Like why would Indriad re-inject the Archetype in??? Makes no sense really. So possibly its just a hair dye and maybe the witch was located near Hiyoshi city (pure speculation soz)

 

You'd think that the time line doesn't make sense since in the prologue Maria was treated as the only child, despite the fact we know this would've happened after Erin Alice Allen were thrown into the unknown dimension. The fact there's no black Gardevoir here also suggests the prologue happened after the events of Marble Mansion. So once again this contradicts the book in the prologue that says Kugearan was still being built.

 

Thinking of it this way, it logically doesn't add up for the prologue to be after the Marble Mansion events (since Anathea is already dead), or for the prologue to be before the Marble Mansion events (why is only Maria here?), making the prologue either an alternative reality/dream etc. The Mariannete Mansion is also completely different in layout to the Marble Mansion, and seems to be larger in size overall, with more gates, more garden, etc. Indirad in this Mansion also recognised the player, which means it is possibly consistent with the past (but that doesn't make sense because we know the Chrysola hotel is now what stands upon the Marble Mansion),  so again the Mariannete Mansion where we get our 3rd  gym badge is 100% from an alternative universe. The fact the gym badge had the same chip and was registered as a normal badge fits well with this theory.

 

Now the most intriguing part of all of this is that you find a book about "How to stop child abuse" or something similar in the hut during the blacksteeple arc, which had the name Anathea written on it. Currently, there is no evidence from the game that can link this book being at this location to any other plot point. Sure, this means that this book would've been in Anathea's possession while the children were with them (or just Maria), but then why is it near Blacksteeple? Especially since Anathea already died, and honestly from the  past arcs there's a very low chance she would've made it there herself. Well, unless its another alternative universe situation. We know that there is a second Blacksteeple Castle in the sky near the one we've been too, protected by a barrier. Perhaps this is a way to an alternative dimension? (Speculation again)

 

From Rune, we learn about Anathea and the witch. (this means it could've happened in any timeline or alt universe)

From us, we learn about Anathea's records in Hiyoshi hospital (she was admitted earlier than when the MC fainted), so Anathea has been out alone by herself. But isn't Hiyoshi far from Kugearan? How'd she get there without a boat like Anju's? This part I think is the missing link (because this must've happened in the MC's timeline)

Prologue: Anathea was alive but then we don't know what happened to her right before she was  brought to the  altar by Indriad

Past Marble Mansion: She must've met the MC and Venam after witnessing Erin Alice  Allen thrown into the unknown dimension, then dies

Book in Blacksteeple hut: No link to any of above events

 

One thing I find interesting is in the prologue, Indirad sacrificing Anathea and Maria was for them to "avoid  the calamity", so this could be signifying a world reset or an alternative universe travel.

Maria staring at the mirror remembering what just happened to her could also be one of those moments like Mosely where she remembers the events that occured in the alternative version of her in another universe. Same thing could be said about  Mariannette remembering her identity as Maria, although I guess that whole are was in an alternative universe so idek anymore haha

 

The main question that still exists, is even if there were alternative universes, how do characters from those realities impact on the one MC's currently in? Maybe the soul stone relates somehow? Maybe the memory overlapping thing like Mosely? Maybe realities taking over others (such as Mariannette Mansion tress and bushes materialising in Gearan City during the arc)? Could you overlap with characters like this? Imagine if  Melia came with Venam and MC to the mansion, what would she remember? 

 

Another thing is Indriad has never seen Melia. HMMM I wonder how both would react? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing you missed, but still connected to your theories, is that (I don't remember who said it, but I think it was Kieran) Kieran said that MC already travelled once in Aevium. This means maybe he was talking about past ourselfs? Or maybe the reset? We know that actually, if I remember correctly, Eclypsia Pyramid is supposed to be a ship with the objective to let survive its members from World Reset. Maybe other people survived this...maybe Adrest? It's still pretty difficult to realize what is the truth.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by S7rife

[Cyphre]

9 minutes ago, S7rife said:

Maybe other people survived this...maybe Adrest?

This guy is in our soul hotel, pretty sure he is megadead. 

[SoulN7]

11 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

This guy is in our soul hotel, pretty sure he is megadead. 

Yeah, I still have to understand what will happen if he'll awaken. Pretty sure the Interceptor's form was not from him...if this form can be unlocked outside Nightmare Realm...