Who is your favorite villain in Pokemon Reborn?

[Aishi]

Taka Taka Taka Taka Taka tAK a TKAA TAK A TAKA TAKA TAKA TAKAAAAAA

...and ZEL, too.

[Zargerth]

Sirius or Sigmund. There seems to be so much more to them than they let on.

[Motorteo]

T3RRA destroy them all yeahhh

[Monochrome_Complex]

People pulling the "killing = evil" thing again I see. Killing terrorists(which essentially is what Meteor are) =/= evil in itself.Calling titania/saphira villains because they killed meteor members just doesn't sit right with me.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Monochrome_Complex

[Tartar]

People pulling the "killing = evil" thing again I see. Killing terrorists(which essentially is what Meteor are) =/= evil in itself.Calling titania/saphira villains because they killed meteor members just doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not calling Titania evil because she killed a bunch of grunts. I'm calling her actions evil because she took our her frustrations which stem from her own weakness and inability to face Amaria out on a bunch of grunts whom she murdered to vent her frustrations.

If she killed them because she wanted to do it for the greater good, then I could see her as an anti-hero. But the moment she starts killing for the sake of killing, that's when her actions are no longer justified and she's just being amoral and "evil".

[FairFamily]

I'm not calling Titania evil because she killed a bunch of grunts. I'm calling her actions evil because she took our her frustrations which stem from her own weakness and inability to face Amaria out on a bunch of grunts whom she murdered to vent her frustrations.

If she killed them because she wanted to do it for the greater good, then I could see her as an anti-hero. But the moment she starts killing for the sake of killing, that's when her actions are no longer justified and she's just being amoral and "evil".

So killing is OK as long you don't "enjoy" it? That sounds counter-productive, if you're going to kill them then why don't you kill two birds with one stone? Their fates haven't changed either way, the only one whose fate changed is Titania's.

Also what is the greater good? I tend to find it a hypocritic term.

Edited July 1, 2016 by FairFamily

[Jmanultrax1]

im pretty sure that those grunts could/would kill people. That team has no morals at all. Titania is just frustrated that she lied to her best friend for all those years, then Amaria tries to kill herself, because like before, it was a lie and no one loved her (past trauma?). Then she gets kidnapped by the grunts. This just piled up for titania until it she couldn't control it. I'm not justifying her actions, she lied to amaria to prevent her from killing herself because no one loved her, like in the past. Now because of this trauma amaria's mind forced her to forget it, but we/she know that it will come back at some point.

[RudeStyle]

Fern best Villain. He's like Gary 2.0. Completely in denial and egotistical.

[JoshMck]

Okay, so the thing that I see going on is about Titania and Saphira.

In my opinion on all that is that truly in Reborn there isn't actually GOOD or EVIL. Everyone is trying to get by and survive and protect their loved ones and or trying to achieve their goals. Titania did kill a bunch of grunts out of frustration and her trying to get back Amaria. Saphira, memory is foggy, but I'm pretty sure she was just trying to protect everyone. Team Meteor is against pretty much everyone. Team Meteor has killed people, kidnapped, etc. Nothing justifies killing, murdering. But, Titania and Saphira wouldn't be killing if there wasn't a threat like Team Meteor/Terrorist whom are trying to take over everything. They are destroying Reborn. So despite the grunts possibly being innocent, they stopped being innocent when they joined Team Meteor fully knowing what's going on, and becoming a threat. It's like 2 in the morning. I hope this all makes sense or I'm losing my mind.

[Tartar]

So killing is OK as long you don't "enjoy" it? That sounds counter-productive, if you're going to kill them then why don't you kill two birds with one stone? Their fates haven't changed either way, the only one whose fate changed is Titania's.

Also what is the greater good? I tend to find it a hypocritic term.

What about I'm about to convey is grossly oversimplified, so bear with me.

Its all about intentions. A hero is something who has heroic goals and acts heroically and doesn't have to compromise on his morals and ideals to reach his goals. Meanwhile an anti-hero still has heroic goals but has an amoral mindset and the means his morals and the means through which he achieves said goals and villainous. Titania is firmly in the second category. She does what is in reality good actions, by helping save Reborn city, but doing so through the exact same methods the villains are using: comitting murder. All the while she does this in a fit of rage and not because she wants to do "heroic deeds".

Oh, the greater good is utilitarianism. Nothing inherently hypocritical here. The main problem is that good is subjective so utilitarianism is outside of specific instances still as subjective thing.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Tartar

[FairFamily]

What about I'm about to convey is grossly oversimplified, so bear with me.

Its all about intentions. A hero is something who has heroic goals and acts heroically and doesn't have to compromise on his morals and ideals to reach his goals. Meanwhile an anti-hero still has heroic goals but has an amoral mindset and the means his morals and the means through which he achieves said goals and villainous. Titania is firmly in the second category. She does what is in reality good actions, by helping save Reborn city, but doing so through the exact same methods the villains are using: comitting murder. All the while she does this in a fit of rage and not because she wants to do "heroic deeds".

Oh, the greater good is utilitarianism. Nothing inherently hypocritical here. The main problem is that good is subjective so utilitarianism is outside of specific instances still as subjective thing.

But why does the mindset matter to the victim? He is dead either way. Mindset is only usefull if you want to gain insight in future iterations but she seems to have it pretty much under control since she is willing to attack inanimate objects instead of us.

Also for the good of the majority as long as you aren't in the minority it's fine I suppose. Also if you apply for the good for the majoriy enough times, you have only served the minority.

[Jmanultrax1]

Fern for the win... of losing!

[loveDBZ]

I haven't seen anyone say it yet, but if you consider Corey as villain he would have to be my favorite, his hatred and anger was born out of loss, he was in mourning and all he wanted back was a little piece of his wife back, so he joined team meteor. But in this whole process ignoring his daughter causing her to be a little brat. >_>


And though everyone else has their reasonings to be a "Villain" Corey's story stuck with me.

Yes ZEL is fantastic and brings awareness for multi personality disorder (Which in a way I can relate to), Taka being a sweetheart that got mixed into all of this, Fern being . . . Fern . . . , etc etc. Corey's story was the best.

[ZEL]

You've got to keep in mind that if we're talking about the term villain purely in a fictional context ("a character in a story or play who opposes the hero"), the answer to who would be defined as a villain and who not depends entirely on whose narrative they're in.

Since the game makes it explicitly clear that the player character sides with the faction that tries to stop Team Meteor, their members (and those who aid them) are our villains/antagonists, whereas those who help us, no matter how questionable their means, are not.

Not every character who does questionable things is automatically a villain in fiction.

If this whole game was played in the perspective of someone who is on Team Meteor's side, then suddenly you'd have people like Saphira and Titania as villains, whereas Solaris wouldn't be one.

We see the Meteors and Cultists as the villains because they're the ones who oppose the side we're on. Consider games in which you have a choice over what faction you join, and how quickly the other side will be the villain then.

Saphira and Titania are not villains to the player character in Reborn because the morally objectionable things they do don't hinder our goals. Whether we agree or disagree with their choices to kill the Meteor/Cultist grunts, those actions still further our endeavor of saving the city from Team Meteor.

Now, if you apply the other definition of a villain, however ("a deliberate scoundrel or criminal"), then yes, Saphira and Tania would be villains. The fact alone that we feel the need to excuse their killing is a good indicator that we see it as a bad action at the core. Something that we'd normally see as criminal.

[Tartar]

But why does the mindset matter to the victim? He is dead either way. Mindset is only usefull if you want to gain insight in future iterations but she seems to have it pretty much under control since she is willing to attack inanimate objects instead of us.

Also for the good of the majority as long as you aren't in the minority it's fine I suppose. Also if you apply for the good for the majoriy enough times, you have only served the minority.

Don't bother trying to find holes in utilitarianism, its a flawed way of deducing right from wrong, but in the end its the best one we have so far since everything else is based on assumptions and sophistry.

And imagine this: We have Superman and we have Deadpool. Superman decides to kill Doomsday since he was about to destroy the Earth. Before Doomsday achieved this Superman killed him to save the Earth. He is therefore a hero since he did something Heroic (saved the Earth and its inhabitants from destruction). Meanwhile what if Deadpool was around while Doomsday was destroying the Earth, and Deadpool felt like doing something amoral and kill someone, and thus killed Doomsday. Both actions in the end kill Doomsday and save the Earth, but the reasons behind Deadpool's actions prohibit him from being a Hero, since his actions weren't heroic. Intention is everything when discerning a Hero, Anti-Hero or an Anti-Villain.

[JoshMck]

This is becoming really deep.

[Jiggle]

This is becoming really deep.

That's what she said

[Zane0144]

Solaris is a pretty cool villain. He may have made the mistake of sparing the Protagonist once, but after that he was like no, you are way too annoying to deal with. He would have killed us before the PULSE Muk if Amaria hadn't stepped in. But he's not like Sirius who gloats and says, oh I could've beaten you if it wasn't for this or that (claims he could've beaten Protag if Sapphira hadn't beaten him but Cain and Protag were enough to stop him too). Solaris has the skills to back it up and manages to be a decent test of your skill being the climax of a 3 part battle. The battle with him really felt like it was on equal footing and I cannot wait to tackle him solo.

His motives are also interesting as he feels it is his duty to cleanse the city, not that he just doesn't like them or anything.