Vulnona

Hype train art! :D The Protagonist (Vero) Adopts Growlithe Taka & Chatot (old) Taka & Chatot (2022)

You know, I was always wondering about that, too. The interpretation that they are somehow related just comes out of nowhere and feels rather... cheap. It simply ends up being a tragic and a bit squicky twist. So I definitely prefer your interpretation because it actually makes their romance and Tara's death even sadder instead of cheapening their relationship. ... Actually, now I'm wondering... has there ever been any confirmation that "Copperman" was Simon's family name? After all, it could have been his wife's maiden name... which would make Lyssa and Tara related. Which would be okay, mostly.

I really like that argument - never thought of it that way! I find your line of argument very convincing. I think that's also what's bothering me about this scene. Okay, so... if you define 'reasonable' as 'consistent' and 'reaching a goal', then we fully agree. Originally, I thought you meant 'appropriate'. Yup, you definitely have a point here!

I like how you say that it's totally reasonable and yet repugnant and self-centred at the same time ;) As soon as we contrast moral values/virtues, anticipated consequences, actual consequences, context, and moral intention, it becomes a really tough situation to navigate. But if the Meteors - under the assumption that they all believe 100% in the New World and the rightness of their actions - act to the best of their reason and logic, then we cannot really fault them for their actions, can we? This is where we arrive at an unacceptable conclusion because... Yup, that's the common sense assessment. But technically, we don't know. That's the frustrating part. As you stated earlier, in life, you have to make decisions without perfect knowledge of a situation - like Titania did. And sometimes, the information we're lacking can change everything. But if we only assign value to an action by its consequences or context alone, then we can't really make moral decisions at all because we just don't have that knowledge prior to the action, or even afterwards. Our range of knowledge is limited. So as a shortcut, we have developed "common sense"-morality. If it seems logical according to our empirical experiences, then it's probably a good idea to do. But that leads to situations in which we are left puzzled once our empirical experience no longer serves as an orientation. So we have to look for other criteria. And since without perfect knowledge, we can't really count on consequences or full context, we have to also look at other things: moral values, virtues, maxims, that kind of stuff. But even with these, you could make a good case for the Meteors being justified in their violent approach. After all, with the right arguments, we can portray even atrocious acts as reasonable and logical. I think we agree on lots of points here! I like your insight into Titania's mind in how she internally justifies her actions by dehumanising the Meteors, and I also think that Team Meteor bears lots of the moral responsibility of how the situation escalated. I agree with every point except that killing the Meteors is a reasonable thing that most people would do under the exact same circumstances as well. That's the only aspect I am of a different opinion about. I think most people would be hesitant to kill another person, even under such harsh circumstances. I think they would absolutely knock people out, throw them in the water, electrocute them and whatnot, but intentional murder in this case is a bit too much in my opinion. By the way, I'd like to take this moment to say that I like the way you build and communicate your arguments :)

I agree Titania and Saphira act with the best of intentions for themselves and their loved ones. However, I am not convinced that killing people is the best option available to them. They are indeed forced into a situation they would otherwise not have partaken in, but they still have options. Yup, I agree with you here. As stated above, the Meteor characters - though faced with a tough choice - still chose to become part of a... hm... "make-people-leave"-organisation that evolved into a fully-fledged terrorist organisation. Even if they may have been well-intentioned extremists, they still had a say in the path they chose to take, so I, too, have less sympathy for them than I have for Titania. But I also don't think that Titania's actions as a victim excuse her morally. Absolutely! I would be terrified as well. Human life is fragile and delicate, and you probably only have one, so you maintain it at all costs. But since you mentioned the fight-or-flight response: that doesn't automatically mean killing the threat. It means fighting back until someone is no longer dangerous to you. In Titania's case, that could mean battling someone, knocking them unconscious, causing them to flee, tying them up, locking them in a room... or just plain sneaking by. Also, fight-or-flight is a defense mechanism. That doesn't mean actively going after a target - it means fighting it off until the danger has passed. By that definition, Titania is well past that. I think that in the WTC scene, Titania is the character we are supposed to sympathise with. We have met her and Amaria, we know how much she cares about her, and we know she's "one of the good guys". But in a similar vein, the game also calls this into question. How far are we willing to sympathise with her? At which point does she become more like the villains? What makes her so different? Showing us the dead meteor bodies, hearing things from their perspective, how frightened they are of Titania and how traumatised they are, and how disproportionate they perceive Titania's reaction - it makes you think twice about whether Titania is really morally justified here. I mean, after all, you have mentioned throughout your posts that you find it hard to sympathise with the Meteors because their motives are flimsy and they don't really care about the harm they cause to other people. But lets have a little thought experiment. Say, for example, that each and every one of these Meteor grunts was convinced that their New World would be beneficial to everyone. A promised land without falsehood, without crime, without war or strife. And they (probably rightfully) assume that almost every person in the world will be happier in this New World. By that measure, wouldn't they have to logically and reasonably assume that to reach this end, they can excuse almost every means? After all, what's a little death compared to a shiny New World where everyone is happy? Judging by their intentions alone, their actions would be immensely well-justified. By your own criteria, which you listed as fighting to ensure that no harm comes to loved ones acting out of good intentions acting in a situation that is forced upon you the Meteors may actually have the moral high ground here. In our little thought experiment, they act out of the best of intentions, they want to ensure that everyone (not just their specific loved ones) is happy in the New World, and they may feel that our unjust, cruel world is forced upon them (since they have no wish to exist in such a world/situation). According to this thought experiment, the Meteors' actions should now be morally justified according to your criteria. Moreover, they should be perfectly reasonable and logical. But would you actually agree? Probably not, right? With utilitarian ethics, you can justify almost everything. Even the utmost atrocities. The ends justify the means. But at some point, we also have to look at the merit of the action itself. With killing, that's usually pretty low. We seem to have a moral intuition that irrevocably taking someone's life is seldom excusable. The common moral intuition is that depriving someone of their life is reasonable and logical only in very, very few cases (like, for example, tyrannicide or killing someone to preserve your own live when failing to do so would mean certain death for you or all parties involved). Those are typically cases in which failing to kill the person would violate a more important virtue (like ensuring the safety of many people, upholding humanist and democratic values/ensuring that they continue existing, or protecting your own life - the most important thing you own). And I would argue that Titania wasn't in such a situation. Sure, she was stressed and hungry and afraid for Amaria's well-being, but not every person in such a state leaves a bloodbath on the ground. I think it's safe to say that - as much as we can sympathise and understand Titania - her reaction was still disproportionate, and it's not what I, from my point of view, would describe as "reasonable and logical".

I like that you distinguish between an academic and an in-situation perspective because I think that makes a huge difference. Also, I really appreciate the argument that Titania is working with limited knowledge of the situation here. Absolutely - but I don't think anyone said that would be a better response, right? This would, indeed, seem naive at best. Absolutely. I agree. Again, strong point - which, however, ultimately undermines Titania's choice of killing the Meteors. There is a reason she feels appalled by her actions now - and learns from them. I think this is where we begin to disagree. While I think the argument of limited knowledge of the situation gives Titania a good reason to react in a more drastic way than necessary, I still don't think that it necessitates killing people. As the Swordsman pointed out, there are reasonable alternatives, and given that these Meteors probably protected themselves with their Pokemon before being cut down, we may even infer that Titania first battled them and then killed them anyway. There are good reasons for why lethal force should be a last resort. (I see your big post. I'll have to reply to that with a keyboard, wait a sec.) Yeah... but it's also more complicated than that, I think. Firstly, most people generally don't want to kill other people. Even if you're threatened by an armed mugger, a soldier, whover - most people would rather choose to flee, bargain, or somehow try to incapacitate the aggressor rather than outright killing them. Secondly, there's a difference between accidentally killing someone in self-defense and actively going after aggressors because they attacked first. The former is absolutely understandable, the latter is what Titania did. Yup - and that would make Saphira's reaction more understandable than Titania's. Because Titania's safety wasn't ever in danger - it was Amaria's. Therefore, Titania had no reason to actively and expressly kill Meteor grunts. Yeah - if there is the danger that you'll be shot in a few seconds, sure - shoot first (or run very fast), ask questions later. But you make it sound like every Meteor grunt picks off people on the street and executes them right away. As of right now, Team Meteor attacked on a larger scale (the train bombing at the beginning, the PULSE-Pokémon attacking cities, and so on), but the grunts were pretty harmless by comparison. Which means that Titania would not have been in any danger after incapacitating the grunts' Pokémon. So that makes her actions seem way more drastic than they needed to be. After all, you - the main character - manage quite nicely with your non-lethal actions. Ciel and Samson don't kill the grunts they incapacitated at Agate. No one did so far - except for Saphira and Titania. And yes, that absolutely backfires for the player when they are knocked out by Lin at Titania's gym - but would the alternative really be better? Would we really live in a better world if we just killed every threat we came across? I absolutely agree that self-preservation is a powerful drive and that there are circumstances under which you can excuse almost everything - but Titania didn't act under such circumstances. (By the way, I sound very Titania-cricital here, but I actually love the character. Especially because she grows as a character and learns from her mistakes.)

Hmm From the way it's worded, my first impression was... Taka. There's some dialogue in Tourmaline desert that's worded very similarly. And it would also make sense for him to talk about Titania and her "drastic measures". So maybe, they've changed some dialogue from previous scenes...

While I find your argument that Saphira and Titania are acting out of self-defense in an unprovoked attack convincing and to hold merit, I am surprised to hear that killing people is "extremely reasonable". If Titania and Saphira were portrayed as reluctant or killing by accident (for example, they had no idea that Hyperbeam or Aegislash could be lethal), I could totally understand it - but they are clearly portrayed as bloodthirsty. They actively strive for the kill. Saphira probably has a better excuse because she shoots down Meteors who assault her home, but Titania actively goes after grunts and kills them. Just by comparison: your player character renders grunts harmless by merely defeating them. By that logic, that would have been an option for Titania as well. The fact that she still chose to murder them is... chilling. As excusable as the circumstances may be, I think it's always jarring to hear murder be referred to as "extremely reasonable". Similarly, the "guilt by association" argument is probably more complicated than that. Like Oscarus said, the Meteors caught within Lin's new association face a tough choice. As of right now, almost every Meteor who defected has died or faced a similar fate. Not only are they facing cognitive dissonance regarding Team Meteor's ideals (old vs. new), but they also have to decide between staying and staying alive or leaving and probably dying. In situations like these, it becomes incredibly easy for the human mind to justify self-preservation, even over the lives of others. So while that certainly doesn't make Meteors innocent, it's also not as clear-cut as "they're guilty by association" and deserve to be cut down. Reborn never forces a clear moral statement onto the player, but it certainly makes it clear that Titania's rampage isn't heroic and/or appropriate. Amaria threw herself off the waterfall and Team Meteor found and treated her wounds, only for the same grunts to be killed by Titania. While the game and the characters certainly cut Titania some major slack regarding her actions, it certainly doesn't portray it as "extremely reasonable".

Hmm... I wonder how they are going to incorporate Xerneas and Yveltal into this. If Xerneas can restore life - do we have to sacrifice one person to Yveltal? I mean, technically, if Xerneas can restore the dead, that would have massive consequences for Reborn. The only way to make sure that people don't abuse Xerneas is to catch it - which comes with its own moral implications. Similar case with Yveltal. But it would be nice to save Eclipse that way. Her fate as of E19 is so depressing...

And some more: ZEL & Umbreon Florinia & Cradily

Well, I think he has way more chemistry with the main character, so I'd like the option to have those two end up, but if that doesn't happen, Luna and Taka might make a good couple. Though... I don't know if Luna's escapist tendencies would really complement Taka's personality. One reason I ship him with the main character is that Taka matures throughout their desert adventures and becomes a stronger, happier, and more confident person for it. The determination of the main character rubs off on him and shows him something to strive towards. (He basically professes this goal word for word in the void.) This is why a Luna romance, for me, would be out of left field. Though it's really hard to say how these characters would gel because they haven't had a single interaction in the game so far, and the childhood friends to romance trope is... eh... I'm not a fan ^^" Honestly, I think I'd prefer Luna to be ace. So far, we haven't had a single piece of asexual representation yet, and Luna would be a great character for that. Dreamy, occupied with all kinds of stuff life has to offer besides sexual attraction, and she seems positively disgusted at Bennett's advances. Her identifying as ace would add a second layer to that scene, and also to everyone mentioning how beautiful and alluring she is. But Luna and Taka would definitely look cute together :) After E19 will have released, you bet there will be people hyping for Gen 8 & 9, Legends: Arceus forms, extra DLCs, fakemons, romancing options, a surprise E20 that leads to Rejuv... :D ... Or it could just become a "man, this game is still great 30 years later" thread ^^

While I like your insight into the character, I hope the player never has to mercy-kill a hopeless/depressed person because it sends the wrong message in my opinion. You talk about warrior's pride and values, but up until now, Reborn hasn't really set up the tone for that. Corey's suicide wasn't portrayed as a solution to suffering: it was made very clear that Corey made this decision under the influence of depression; that in doing so, he robbed Heather of an adolescence with her father (and indirectly caused her trauma with Connal); and that his death caused more suffering as a result. With Kiki, it's one step farther. Her death is not portrayed as a warrior's death, protecting people in combat and "making the best of her illness" - it's portrayed as a senseless and tragic loss that hurts everyone. Even the "brave Meteor warriors" at the lake or in the Water Treatment Centre aren't treated as brave or having died a warrior's death. They are instead humanised: you can find their name tags in a diving section, learn more about them and get to know that some of them treated Amaria's wounds before Titania killed them. I get that Reborn has its grey morality sometimes, for example when Torkoal is made to torture the Meteor grunt, but as of right now, the message is always: killing is wrong and suicide isn't a solution. If the game really gave the player the option to kill Solaris after all he has done, I believe this needs to be set up very specifically so as not to break tone and create moral dissonance. A mercy kill to spare prolonged physical pain in a trapped situation would be all right in my opinion, or simply the choice not to intervene in his attempted death, but anything else...? I hope not. (That excludes, of course, juicy ethical dilemmas I have not thought of right now.) I, too, think that morality is very much a matter of context and that certain acts can be excused under the correct circumstances, but if games explore these choices and the morality behind them, they need to do it thoughtfully. I, too, think that Solaris may not live to the end. But if he dies, I'd like it to be not as a mercy kill. Even if the trope is done to death and a cheap way of redemption, he could risk his death in order to help the main characters, the people of Labradorra, or similar. Similarly, he could appeal to Arceus to give his life to Taka so that he may live. (Man, keep your fingers crossed!!!) But if he survives, I'd like to see him make amends. He's probably going to jail, but after the main characters showed him that violence isn't the way (aww, sorry, Mando...), he could spread his love of Reborn history and tradition through writing history books or creating an exhibition. Or he could work very hard with the construction people to rebuild the stuff he blew up (if there are buildings left to rebuild). Personally, I think it would be a waste to have him die at the end. It would be tragic in a Shakespearean way - his convictions have already lead to his downfall and the loss of what he held dearest - but it would also be the perfect moment to build his character from the ground up. Now that he has fully realised what his convictions have cost him, he can make better decisions now and do everything to save what is yet to save. And if Taka miraculously comes back from the dead (pleasepleaseplease!), then he can make amends with him and be a better person from now on. (Like, Taka's childhood is over and they're probably not going to be close, but still, I'd like them to have at least one conversation in which Solaris communicates how he failed his son). So... yeah. I hope something like that happens.

Maybe I'm just dense, but what are you trying to say in this paragraph? Are you talking about transgender surgery? (Then, my next question would be why you're forbidden from using the term - I found nothing in the forum rules that would prohibit you from using the term, so are you trying to work around censors...?) And if the word you wanted to type is indeed transgender surgery... why would Amaria and Cain be examples of those? We know that one of the main characters is transgender, but I thought who that is is still unconfirmed... Are you actually trying to say "homosexual"? If so, then the first part with "from male to female" doesn't line up in my opinion since that seems to allude to gender identity, not sexual preference. Oh good! As much as I love plot points like these, they have to be meticulously crafted to enrich the story (instead of just shock value). So if the Ace reveal wasn't planned right at the beginning of devising the story (or didn't just happen to fit with the story so far), it probably would fall flat.

Hmm, okay, that could be!

The skin colour would fit very well, but Ace has golden-brown eyes, whereas the mystery character has grey ones. So unless they became a Xehanort host along the way...

If I remember correctly, the old models will be available in the sprites folder for you to switch out manually if you prefer the older version (yay, Lucia with Anko hair :3) As for the censored sprites, they are still somewhere around the forum and on the character page - you can swap them out right now if you want to :)

Some more art: Julia & Oricorio ZEL challenges the player at Obsidia Park

I thought so, too. It's probably just poetic. ... But then I thought (similar to Solandris): What if those screens have shown these four deaths for months now, or years, and the player was just a bit late to watch them? Then it would actually be foretelling again... :F

I think Radomus speculates that the keys act as a shield against the weird flow of time. So as long as people stay close to it, they're fine, but the rest of the Aerie is still frozen in time.

Thank you so much for your comments! <3 You are!! Don't lose sight of that! I feel the same way when I look at other artists' work ^^" Yeah, it's so sad... This scene is also on my list of scenes I want to paint in the future.

More fanart: Face-off at Mosswater Factory Lucia Heart Sketch Aster & Eclipse with Solrock & Lunatone

Taka will return from the dead and deliver a good ass-kicking to Team Meteor together with the player :D (YESyesyesyesyes headcanon!)

Nice!! The map looks gorgeous!! Take all the time you need!

My God. I've been waiting for this for so long...! It looks AMAZING! I wanted to see this map in colour so badly, I even wanted to colour it myself on a giant piece of watercolour paper T.T It looks SO, SO GOOD! Does anyone know when or if Amethyst is going to upload the finished artwork? :3 About the glass workstation cutscene after the void : I get that it's long, and even longer on the Reshiram path. And that it can be tedious to replay. But seriously, it's not "bad storytelling". Some of the dialogue at the beginning could be trimmed, maybe, but this is a story dump that needs to happen. Firstly, it gives the player vital information of what happened while they were under hypnosis and regarding important plot events from years before, and secondly, you need some cool-off after the dramatic events that just took place. (Admittedly, it's a long cool-off, but hey.) Being rushed into the next playing section would probably not be a good idea after such dramatic events. Plus, there's the speed-up function. It would be pretty harsh to say Reborn has "bad storytelling" because of one long scene. And I think for people that are used to story-driven RPGs, this cutscene was quite stomachable. I've seen longer scenes than this with characters I was far less invested in.

Oooh! Ooops, sorry ^^“