PeXXeR Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) I am gonna start by saying I love the game. Its my fave pokemon game to date, thanks for all the work you put in ! The Small things. I dont agree on some changes made to EP 15. Why did you have to switch out mudkip for squritle ? I had to restart the game to pick mudkip again cause I don't know any way of getting him if I choose a diff starter. That took out the joy from the game for me, I want Swampert and Blaziken in my team. ( I do know they are very strong and cheap but those two are a lot of people's fave pokes) Big thing You know you goofed when you left a fighting trade right before a boss, the hitmon line. Why punish the player when he picks to go with the gym leader, that boss is so BS, I am considering picking that EL dude. It depends on the team but that Ditto boss battle is dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb and a HUGE time waste. There is a difference between a hard boss and a time waste, that Ditto boss fight is just that. His judgment attack is sometimes effective some times not at all, and I have no plates on my pokemon. If you want me to beat a hard boss make it consistent so I can prepare a strategy. (I do know how judgment works) I had no fighting type in my team, got hitmonlee leveled him up used two heartscales on him went back, tried again got my ass handed to me, when I seem to be to the point to deliver the final hit one him he always, ALWAYS CRITS ME and I cant finish him off. He also NEVER missed a focus blast and I mean never. The Point The point of this topic was not to complain just to give some feedback. this boss battle needs retweaking. I have beat the game multiple times by now all of the time I lost motivation when I get to the ditto part. How to fix it ? Just like any thread of this kind I got a couple of suggestions how to town the mofo down. 1St one, lower ACC of judgment just for this boss battle or maybe remove the field advantage he has, or lower the level to 70, its on Ame. Maybe I am shit ? That is also a thing I am shit I admit it, but this mofo is cheap for no reason. I am a filthy casual, never dove in competitive or anything like that I play Pokemon games for the single player. Thank you and I do want to apologize If I came out negative. Keep up the good work, Thanks again. Edited October 9, 2016 by PeXXeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Mods Ice Cream Sand Witch Posted October 9, 2016 Global Mods Share Posted October 9, 2016 The Garchomp battle at Pyrous Mountain and Dittoceus are intended to be like this. The quickest way of beating a tough battle against a single Pokemon is to use Perish Song. Some people do this against the solo PULSEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugruf Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 You need to remember that the battle against Ditto Arceus is optional. If you side El, you can just lose and continue with the story, so you are not forced to win the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeXXeR Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Thats the thing, we should not cheap our way around a boss battle stuff like perish song and so on. The boss battle itself needs a reworking. Why not make it when you lose the game continues if you beat him you get an awesome item of some sorts. That's a decent idea. I dont want to pick EL, I never picked him, but I guess I have to now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 There's never a time where you have to pick El. The point of these powerful, single-Pokemon boss battles is to get the player to develop a strategy outside of the standard hyper offensive strategy common in most Pokemon games. Just take a little bit to think about an effective strategy to take on these bosses and I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 There is nothing cheap about : Perish Song Curse Destiny Bond Leech Seed Mirror Coat / Counter You should form a strategy either with bulky enough pokemon that can counterattack or cripple the Arceus , or with fast sweepers and revenge killers. It is much easier to beat than Garchomp. You might need to catch or breed pokemon you haven't used so far. There are ways to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurotsune Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Thats the thing, we should not cheap our way around a boss battle stuff like perish song and so on. The boss battle itself needs a reworking. why not make it when you lose the game continues if you beat him you get an awesome item of some sorts. That's a decent idea. I dont want to pick EL, I never picked him, but I guess I have to now.. I feel like saying you're "cheaping your way around a boss battle" demerits the people who originally came up with the fairly clever strategies to beat the garchomp and the arceus boss battles. Even if not, it's still a strategy. It's the way around the game. RPGs have unwinnable battles - Although I don't like the usage of the term, if we were to go with "canon" the MC loses to Garchomp and likely sides with El following the fact that both these battles are meant to be unwinnable. So the alternative dialogue/paths unlocked by beating those battles is not the "main" pathway and are meant as a reward for a player willing to go the extra mile. I could agree with nerfing mandatory boss fights, but nerfing winnable optional bosses would diminish their impact in the game. The Arceus battle is meant to represent the fact you're fighting a god. It's meant to make you think "wow, I wonder how strong the real Arceus would be if I fought it instead!" and it's meant to create an impact on the player. If it was an easy fight, all that impact is lost. Suddenly the overwhelming power El is looking for is a lie and his entire religion is pointless, because an avatar of his god is that easily defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drevance Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 While I do acknowledge the difficulty of El's battle and I share the feeling that if we lose I, personally, would like to be able to progress ,but sided with Radomus. That being said, you can use other strategies that aren't Curse/Perish Song etc. Example - I confused Arceus with confuse ray, threw up fire spin, and just hit with as many flare blitzs or other heavy hitting moves until dead. It took a few tries because confusion is a bit wonky, but it can work. Smokescreen or Sand-Attack are great moves as well to lower accuracy. Plus you know El will heal, so take advantage of that by lowering stats, or boosting your own. It took me a few resets to get the strategy but it was very satisfying to burn Arceus and El with the power of fire. There are both "cheap" easier methods of defeating him and harder ways of defeating him. Hyper Offense just isn't the answer when it outlevels you severely and hits like a truck. It's Arceus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 All I see is a case of someone upset about how Reborn isn't like a Pokemon game. Plenty of games have impossible to win bosses, but only a select few even make them winnable. I think it's kind of cool the story changes based on those fights that are meant to be lost. El's Arceus is not too hard to beat in all honesty but it requires...le gasp...strategy. I know one boss I did nerf for Hardcore was the pulse Abra because well that thing hit stupidly hard to the point people required heavy cheese to win over strategy. Although if the best ending requires beating Arceus, I could see it being toned down 5 levels, but that's it. It'd still kick your ass hard, but not as hard so that it's not a LOL spam T-wave to win fight. I remember Mirror Coat Blastoise putting a huge dent in that thing as well as Glare Arbok setting up for my Emolga to give the finishing blow. Those moments were meant to create an impact such as fearing Solaris and his power since he really wasn't even trying and he was destroying you. Same goes to Arceus where El was showing you the power of his god and the strength it's given him. It's to bring impact to the story. Because believe me that data wise, that Arceus is a quarter of what the real Arceus is capable of. And also, since when has Reborn been about fairness. The second gym leader has a goddamn Cradily. Just to make you feel sorry for being mad that this boss is "too hard", I created the mod adjusting all the bosses to a higher level difficulty except for one single boss: the Arceus you were talking about. It's actually proclaimed as way too easy and one, if not, the weakest boss in the entire mod and I get criticized for it quite a bit. Because believe me, we have a section of the fan base claiming it is way too easy after the initial nerf due to the new field. And besides, there's nothing wrong with wimping out on a super tough fight. I've done it before due to my team construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5hift Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 IDK dude, I beat that Dittoceus with my picks. Sure it took a couple of tries but it was challenge at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanna Cyril Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Isn't Sturdy EQ users a viable strategy? Iirc, you collapse the cave after two uses and it dies immediately afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeXXeR Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 I did beat him for the 4th time now, lowerd his HP to like half, he fucked up and used shadow ball on Hitmonlee and thank god he hit the high jump kick. The only boss that I feel is broken is Arceus he has the field advantage leftovers full heals and I bet that judgment move has like 40pp points lol. Hah I do agree on the 2nd gym part though you nailed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Might Gai Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 oh and about mudkip, you just wasted your time, every pokemon will be available in the final episode, mudkip is not available right now, he will be later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timber Dragon Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Honestly, the 'beat a Pokemon waaaaay higher-leveled than you' bosses -- along with the gym leaders and level cap in general -- taught me a valuable lesson in Pokemon that the official games never could: levels aren't everything. Strategy often trumps brute force. It's proven in both the mandatory fights like Steelix and PULSE Abra, and the optional 'unwinnable' ones like Garchomp and Arceus. You don't NEED to win the optional ones, but boy do you feel like a badass if you do. Yes, Ditto Arceus is one of the more frustrating bosses imo, but you do not need to rely on Perish Song strategies or whatever to take it down. The field can easily be altered by anyone who knows certain Dark-type moves, or shattered completely with Earthquake or Bulldoze (fun fact: get in two more Earthquakes after that to get in an instant OHKO). Or if you don't have the means to alter the field, you can use it to your advantage instead. Or you might not even need to bother with the field at all if you just so happen to have a good setup. And if you truly honestly cannot get past Arceus, you ARE allowed to progress if you lose by siding with El (though I personally never side with him). Reborn gives you so many options to get past a fight; sometimes the hard part is just picking one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullkin Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Isn't Sturdy EQ users a viable strategy? Iirc, you collapse the cave after two uses and it dies immediately afterwards. Yep. That's how I beat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hect Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 If you don't wish to be "cheap", pick a Magnemite/Magneton, teach it Thunder Wave and keep spamming it until El runs out of Full Heal. He should have 3, or something. After that, proceed to throw everything you have at him. I did the same and got really lucky with the RNG. I'd also recommend that you should teach Flash Cannon to your Magneton since it gets a significant boost by the field. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUGTwA1osDM As for Solaris. Yeah, the battle is supposed to be unwinnable, but as previously stated, there's ways around that. If you consider them cheap or not is up to you, really. I consider the extra dialogue a neat addition at the price of one Focus Sash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Maybe I am shit ? That is also a thing I am shit I admit it, but this mofo is cheap for no reason. I am a filthy casual, never dove in competitive or anything like that I play Pokemon games for the single player. The thing with this game is that it heavily suggests (heck, it almost requires) that you learn to adapt and improve as a Pokémon player. If you use the same methods here that you use in a casual playthrough, you're going to have a very rough time. That's when you start thinking, "Well, my usual strategy isn't working, but what if I try something else that requires more forethought or understanding of the game mechanics?" For instance, I beat Arceus back when it was still Level 80 by hitting it with Toxic until El ran out of Full Heals, then eating up all of its Focus Blasts with Blissey. It turns out that a Level 48 Blissey takes a little under 66% from a Focus Blast from a Level 80 Arceus, which means it can set up a Light Screen and start outracing Focus Blast damage with Soft-Boiled heals. (It is also worth noting that I do not use any Potions, Revives, etc. in my Reborn run. I restrict myself only to hold items.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katia Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) I honestly had no trouble with ditto arceus at all and I didn't even switch out any of my pokemon to fight him either. I paralyzed him with my jolteon and then jolteon was knocked out. Sadly El healed the paralyze, but in the mean time I used my zoroark and spammed night daze to shit on it's accuracy and do solid damage. Then when zoroark died, I finished it off with my flygon using super power. Edited October 10, 2016 by Katia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeXXeR Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 That was my tactic, get sawmpert in use Earthquake to break the field, then throw everything I got at him. I guess as much for mudkip, but hey I had fun doing it with a fresh team. It was still is fun not having an Bulk up/ Speed boost/ Uber Blaziken. I might as well use this thread, I see some people have Scyther's is he in ? or its just a trainer thing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsbwinner2 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I am gonna start by saying I love the game. Its my fave pokemon game to date, thanks for all the work you put in ! The Small things. I dont agree on some changes made to EP 15. Why did you have to switch out mudkip for squritle ? I had to restart the game to pick mudkip again cause I don't know any way of getting him if I choose a diff starter. That took out the joy from the game for me, I want Swampert and Blaziken in my team. ( I do know they are very strong and cheap but those two are a lot of people's fave pokes) Big thing You know you goofed when you left a fighting trade right before a boss, the hitmon line. Why punish the player when he picks to go with the gym leader, that boss is so BS, I am considering picking that EL dude. It depends on the team but that Ditto boss battle is dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb and a HUGE time waste. There is a difference between a hard boss and a time waste, that Ditto boss fight is just that. His judgment attack is sometimes effective some times not at all, and I have no plates on my pokemon. If you want me to beat a hard boss make it consistent so I can prepare a strategy. (I do know how judgment works) I had no fighting type in my team, got hitmonlee leveled him up used two heartscales on him went back, tried again got my ass handed to me, when I seem to be to the point to deliver the final hit one him he always, ALWAYS CRITS ME and I cant finish him off. He also NEVER missed a focus blast and I mean never. The Point The point of this topic was not to complain just to give some feedback. this boss battle needs retweaking. I have beat the game multiple times by now all of the time I lost motivation when I get to the ditto part. How to fix it ? Just like any thread of this kind I got a couple of suggestions how to town the mofo down. 1St one, lower ACC of judgment just for this boss battle or maybe remove the field advantage he has, or lower the level to 70, its on Ame. Maybe I am shit ? That is also a thing I am shit I admit it, but this mofo is cheap for no reason. I am a filthy casual, never dove in competitive or anything like that I play Pokemon games for the single player. Thank you and I do want to apologize If I came out negative. Keep up the good work, Thanks again. Some battles of course are just frustrating, in fact I think that's the entire point of Reborn...I don't think Scyther's in game but I'd be glad to be proven wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reniwi Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) The ditto-arceus part was the first thing that ever made me look at the forum for some answers (I was a little too much salty). The fight was alright, just like steelix or garchomp, there are many ways and solutions to play around,but the problem that was really cracking my nerves was that: - you must read the entire dialogue to try again, which is really long - you must walk a lot in order to reach the closest pc to rearrange your team, and if you fail again... I won't tell you. Personal experience as a casual player (I don't play comp and only got back to play again LGFR/HGSS after pokeGo, don't hate on me): I tried to beat him with an uneffective team against just in order to avoid wasting time (which leaded to even more time wasted). The first time I almost got him by using Pachirisu nuzzle into super fang twice, but then the crit god didn't had mercy with me to let me finish it. Then after like 6 attempts somehow I got him to miss focus blast like 3 times in a row and I literally roll'd over him with mirror shot (magneton that I happened to be carrying), and that was it. Edited November 20, 2016 by reniwi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) My only real problem with the El fight is the player has no way of knowing that the fight is optional from just the game short of trial and error. I probably would have never known if I didn't read forums. If the choice of Radomus vs. El didn't influence the fight being optional or it was implied at all in the dialogue it would be okay, but as it stands it just dicks over people who picked Radomus and don't know better Fight itself is okay I guess, even though it usually just involves me breeding geodudes and walking in with 50 potions or something Edited November 21, 2016 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatJones Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah, granted its a difficult fight, but it basically shows the whole think-up-a-strategy-not-just-use-brute-strength I put a focus sash on my vanilluxe and used mirror coat, bye bye dittoceus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kircheis Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I liked the Arceus fight a lot actually. The Garchomp battle I didn't know it made a difference if I win or not so I didn't bother trying to beat it, and when I found out that it did make a difference I decided to never lose a battle again. That Arceus battle was very unexpected and fun. It only took me 2 attempts to figure out what approach I need. Due to the field effect, you could easily win by just crashing the cave IIRC, so one could just catch a few low lvl geodudes with sturdy and destroy the field. That is an option but a rather lazy one, and you lose all the great exp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurotsune Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 This thread has been dead for over a year - I'd suggest creating a new one or seeking out a more active thread with a similar premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.