Support Squad Felicity Posted March 10, 2015 Support Squad Share Posted March 10, 2015 Was this pre or post relocation of the move relearner? 'Cause post should have nerfed it right? Without access to the relearner its only good physical moves 'til 37 are take down and double kick, the former has recoil and the latter really isn't that good. It got dig by level up which put in work with the right timing. Ditto with the kicks, but I also gave it strength and Rock smash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMasterJP Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Cal* You're thinking of his brother, Blake. Haha yes, I never am good with names, Cal uses fire and Blake his brother sounds like blaze. I called a girl in my class Vera for weeks... her name was eva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claydoll Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 gulpin completely destroys florinia because it gets toxic and acid spray. Gulpin is already being moved elsewhere afaik, nothing about the new location yet though. Gulpin is also not incredibly popular, and after that point it's a slighly bulky status effect bot and will not sweep much else, if anything, after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Kekleon's level-up move pool isnt all that bad to be honest. It get's Faint attack really early, giving it the option to become dark type against shade, Shadow sneak is a pretty good priority move and let's you play around with predicting normal/fighting moves, and later on it gets sucker punch, one of the most powerful priority moves, which is pretty good for the psychic gym, as it will change to dark type, give it stab, and most likely absorb a psychic or two. All in all, with a few TMs, you can really have some fun with protean and it's 90 base attack stat. It is bad. Kecleon doesn't have the raw power of Greninja (even from the physical side), its type coverage is worse, and its moves are less powerful. Greninja's level-up movepool is frankly not that good either despite getting a near unresisted Round + Water Pulse combination in addition to utility stuff like Smack Down, but at least it eventually learns stronger attacks at higher levels or by TM. Kecleon's physical options basically cap out at 80 BP (except for, like, Aqua Tail and Iron Tail, the former being unavailable and the latter being bad) coming off base 90 atk, and even though his special movepool is limitless, special moves aren't going to do much off base 60 spatk. I'm pretty sure that as of E14.6, it's not possible to "trick" the AI into using ineffective moves by changing your type with Protean. If you use Shadow Sneak to predict a normal-type attack, the enemy simply isn't going to use a normal-type attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome_Complex Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 But if you're not using Proninja, would Kecleon be viable then? Kecleon's worth isn't in comparison to Greninja alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madf0x Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I wouldnt mind an early kecleon, pretty much would be the only reason I'd play with it. By the time he falls off hard, Id have a few good replacement options anyways. Also never even noticed the gulpin on my play-through. Picked up a black sludge trubbish and had it pretty much do everything I expected from it and sometimes a bit more. Nothing overwhelming though and eventually he just fell off. Was pretty good for walling gym leader's lead and using toxic to burn out their potions. i'd like to see an early ice type. Pretty much no one does early ice types(and its a not so great typing anyways so meh). No idea on which one though, since I rarely run ice types Id be pretty clueless on how effective individuals would be in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Smoochum used to be obtainable after Jasper Ward, but there aren't very many ice types that can be put in the early game. Snorunt and Seel are about the only one that can be moved back without being very problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 But if you're not using Proninja, would Kecleon be viable then? Kecleon's worth isn't in comparison to Greninja alone. I think the fact that Kecleon isn't good is reason enough that it can be obtainable earlier in the game. Smoochum used to be obtainable after Jasper Ward, but there aren't very many ice types that can be put in the early game. Snorunt and Seel are about the only one that can be moved back without being very problematic. Vanillite? Cubchoo? Bergmite? Granted, none of them make sense early on in terms of setting, but we have to ignore that for the sake of diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostelle Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Bergmite might not be a bad idea, it's a physical attacker and doesn't get a physical move until level 26, until then it's stuck with Powder Snow. It evolves at level 37 too, which is not too early either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madf0x Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 As for fitting in the setting, could have some sort of event where the pokemons been sitting in someones freezer and giving the owner a headache(since they can't reach their food and whatnot). A bit overly simplistic, but ya can see how you could still justify an early icetype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm going to say OH HELL NO! to Bergmite being available in the early game. Yeah it's not a problem as a Bergmite, but when it evolves, you got yourself a mothertrucking physical tank with a lot of offensive power. Yeah, it's special defense is weak, but with curse, this thing will laugh at high jump kicks and probably be able to retaliate quite well when it gets avalanche. I think it's good where it's at too, it just gets the poor overlooked because of Charlotte treatment (it'd be fantastic against Terra though). I looked up Beartic and it seems alright so I guess it could compete with Seel for an early game spot (we already have Vanillite though). The issue with Snorunt isn't Glalie, but Frosslass. I'm not sure how big of an issue it'd be considering you could get both roughly at the same point in time. Actually, I don't see either being a problem because of the move tutor being moved back and Shade already providing Shadow Ball for a big chunk of Pokemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I'm going to say OH HELL NO! to Bergmite being available in the early game. Yeah it's not a problem as a Bergmite, but when it evolves, you got yourself a mothertrucking physical tank with a lot of offensive power. Yeah, it's special defense is weak, but with curse, this thing will laugh at high jump kicks and probably be able to retaliate quite well when it gets avalanche. I think it's good where it's at too, it just gets the poor overlooked because of Charlotte treatment (it'd be fantastic against Terra though). Not unlike how Florges is a "mothertrucking" special tank with offensive power? It also has a better defensive typing and more acceptable durability on the other end. You have low standards for overpowered Pokemon. I don't think it's a problem that a Pokemon like Torterra has similar capabilities of Curse sweeping, but with a better typing and a better level-up movepool. Edited March 11, 2015 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Actually Florges is right before Dark and Fighting gyms, so yeah, I don't know why people don't speak about it. I guess it's a bit tricky to find, it fits well in the forest and there's no toxic, but still... Ice is a great type offensively. Early Avalugg nullifies the chance of other ice types being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixl Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Smoochum used to be obtainable after Jasper Ward, but there aren't very many ice types that can be put in the early game. Snorunt and Seel are about the only one that can be moved back without being very problematic. How early is this "early" we're talking about with the Ice-Types? Even if Smoochum was obtainable at Jasper Ward, you can still get it pretty soon after when you get Rock Smash. The same goes for Swinub and Cubchoo, those are all in the part of (Citrine? Don't remember) Cave by the Abandoned Power Plant. And yes, while Smoochum may be guarded by like a level 57 or so Beartic, it's not /too/ different from fighting Solaris's Garchomp at the level you are by that time. As in, just come up with a gimmick to win. I managed to get it when I found it. Also Swinub put in work. It gets Ice Shard at the level you catch it in that cave, so it's already pretty good. But I don't think it's too unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Generally, I'm looking in areas from the start of the game up until the wasteland (or the end of railnet cave to be exact). Once we get past that point, we start getting a whole bunch of good Pokemon that outclass any of the filler Pokemon found in those areas. The other reason is that I don't want to dive too far into Serra's territory yet since she's getting revamped likely which could mean any number of things. As for Swinub, he's fine now since you can't get Mamoswine until after Aya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swordsman Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just saw the topic so before getting on topic just let me get this out of the way. Thank you for explaining why you axe things and while I'm still on the side of pokemon being pushed back instead of completely axed (since its the best compromise we're forced to use other pokemon but eventually work toward our favorites) it lessens the pain of seeing pokemon let go a little. Now for early ice type pokemon how about vanilite its perfect for reborn's city setting and the event to get it could involve the ice cream vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just saw the topic so before getting on topic just let me get this out of the way. Thank you for explaining why you axe things and while I'm still on the side of pokemon being pushed back instead of completely axed (since its the best compromise we're forced to use other pokemon but eventually work toward our favorites) it lessens the pain of seeing pokemon let go a little. Now for early ice type pokemon how about vanilite its perfect for reborn's city setting and the event to get it could involve the ice cream vendor.They're only pushed further in the game, not "eliminated" entirely.Vanillite is already there and yes it involves ice cream (but not at the vendor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostelle Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think the reason Vanillite is so far into the game is because the only other reasonable vendor I can think of is the candy shop.... before the Grass-type gym. It's not exactly a great Pokémon either. It doesn't get a usable move until level 35 (Ice Beam), and that's when it evolves into Vanillish. Until then, it's really stuck with a B.55 power move; Icy Wind, unless you use Avalanche with its poor attack stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted March 11, 2015 Support Squad Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yeah, it's easy enough to get a chocolate ice cream on a sunny day to shift the kid. Then you just pick vanilla chocolate and boom, Vanillite before the slums .Seeing as afaik the only threats to it on Florinias team are Breloom and Cradily (Which it still hits for SE) then it's placing is ideal. I would like to see Cubchoo though, maybe it was sold to an unsuspecting child as a teddy bear by a dealer and then attacks the kid, prompting you to save the kid and catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yeah, it's easy enough to get a chocolate ice cream on a sunny day to shift the kid. Then you just pick vanilla chocolate and boom, Vanillite before the slums .Seeing as afaik the only threats to it on Florinias team are Breloom and Cradily (Which it still hits for SE) then it's placing is ideal. I strongly disagree. There are already Pokemon available before Florinia that do better against her. Florinia also has a Ferroseed that doesn't take SE damage from Vanillite's STABs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madf0x Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Sounds like even better reason that you could move vanillite early game. If the main questionable gym leader has 2 full team members that can easily deal with it, and at least one more that isn't bothered by an early ice type, sounds to be pretty ok to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostelle Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Sounds like even better reason that you could move vanillite early game. If the main questionable gym leader has 2 full team members that can easily deal with it, and at least one more that isn't bothered by an early ice type, sounds to be pretty ok to me. I wouldn't mind the change. But others probably will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swordsman Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 They're only pushed further in the game, not "eliminated" entirely. Vanillite is already there and yes it involves ice cream (but not at the vendor) Thats good to hear, I guess this post was just a joke. after years of illusion being broken and underpowering zororark as a result we decided to buff it. or something. 2illusion4u change of plans. woobat's going to be removed from the game. i don't just mean not available i mean im deleting all traces of it. @ pumpkaboo, it's not interesting at all it just means i failed to transfer something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiri Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 But isn't Vanillite... available pretty early in the game anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostelle Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 But isn't Vanillite... available pretty early in the game anyway? Spinel Town... I'd consider that rather late because I usually have a full team by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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