A True Baller more powerful than Gyarados

[Magus]

So Ame removes the "most broken Pokemon Gyarados from the game", well no. I found something far more powerful than gyarados. It is a little fairy that can be obtained at the Agate Circus, it's name is the fabled fairy, Clefairy. Yes this pink ball of gum is more powerful than the dragon of chaos, if you know how to use it. Once you it learns stored power you should evolve it into the menace that is Clefable. Now to maximize the true power of stored power, you need to do some speed boost abusing. Scolipede is the best way to abuse this as he gets both baton pass and iron defense. You can catch Venipede in the Wasteland, and you can use ability capsules to get speed boost if you have the shards needed. Set up simple, stack up enough speed boost and iron defense that you see fit. Baton Pass to the beast and store power sweep. Tinkerballer here can learn both moonblast naturally and flame thrower from Charlotte's gym. Gyarados relied on Dragon dance to set up, but was stopped by status ailments. Tinkerballer doesn't care about burns or confusion because it is so bulky. Gyarados only has one physical water move, and it would miss when you need it most. Tinkerballer always hits. The time of Gyarados may be over, but this little fairy can still make the game a little less frustrating.

[Azeria]

Friend

Lord Gyarados says Otherwise

Also if someone OHKO's the Scolipede your fucked

[MotherGlitcher]

You can get clefairy in early game in reborn city itself, well cleffa anyways, and your strategy could work in some cases, but I still would like my magic red fish back , but this late in game, my blue lobster and his mega launcher works nicely as well

[Magus]

Friend

Lord Gyarados says Otherwise

Also if someone OHKO's the Scolipede your fucked

Bro, lord gyarados doesn't exist right now. Also I've found it very hard to OHKO scolipede, and then you can protect stall between your iron defenses. An if something just burns Gyarados, it is fucked.

[Sheep]

Clefable with magic guard, stored power, cosmic power, moonlight, and charge beam. Never tried it but in theory it should be a monster.

[Magus]

I still have my red god, but he is chilling in the box until he is officially back in the game. I realized that there can be a whole topic on why Scolipede is the wingman for your sweepers.

[Gaunt]

Like Azery said there are 2 flaws in your "strategy":

1) You need Scolipede (or something similar) to make it work, if your Baton Pass Pokemon dies (for whatever reason) you're dead, Gyarados has everything he needs to kill you.

2) You said that if Gyarados is burned then he's dead and that is true but tell me how many times your Pokemon have been burned in Reborn? for me it's 2 (1 from Eclipse's Magmar and 1 from a random trainer) and it wasn't even my Gyarados.

To conclude your Clefable is a false idol, Gyarados is the true&only Beast! (yes i'm a huge Gyarados fan)

[Magus]

2) You said that if Gyarados is burned then he's dead and that is true but tell me how many times your Pokemon have been burned in Reborn? for me it's 2 (1 from Eclipse's Magmar and 1 from a random trainer) and it wasn't even my Gyarados.

More times than you can count. If it had flame body, it burned me, also you also forgot about confusion, and we ALL know how often that happens. Gyarados would typically kill himself before he could clean sweep. Also Scolipede is like icing, you don't need him because Clefable has everything to set up refer to Sheep's comment. And then to top, he gets only Aqua tail as a STAB physical water and it misses all the times it is needed most. Gyarados is cool pokemon, but very unreliable.

[gutten_tag]

LOL, NO. I got like 1..., no, 10 000 reasons that Clefable is NOT what you think it is. And stop comparing it to the mighty Gyarados. Trust me, i got a Clefabel just like you said, but it's NOT that great. Here we go:
1, In the previous version, gyarados can get very early, and after the hard-time 'till lv 20, he can perform the one-man-show to almost every battles (even with gym leaders). And training him is very easy, especially rain is up like for-ever in reborn. Clefable comes pretty late (in Agate circus, but even in Reborn city you need max happiness), but you have to do A LOT OF HARD TIME TRAINING it (low power, frail, and like no-attaking moves at all)
2, Stats. Gigantic base attack and decent 81 speed, AND dragon dance + moxie combo. But clefable? all mediocre. If you want to sweep with clefable, with iron defense boost and speed boost ONLY, that's ridiculous. And don't tell me about +6 defense and +6 speed, because only stupid AI (and never be with gym leader) will let you use Iron defense 3 times in a row to abuse that. With the frail of Scolipede, ONE iron defense will be in most cases. So 3 speed boost (with protect of course) and one iron defense, you got 120 base power of Stored Power. So if you want to sweep, you NEED Cosmic Power or the best is Calm Mind for your Clefable. But gyarados can got +6 atk very simple, just make sure your opponent got...enough pokemons to knee down this al-mighty dragon (and stop comment that it does not have Dragon type- I KNOW IT)
3, Scolipede is good with ALL POKEMONS, NOT ONLY CLEFABLE. And what if i told you that i use Sword dance + Speed Boost Ninjask to Gyarados to compare with Iron defense + Speed boost Scolipede to Clefable?

4, Moveset. Like i said, Clefable need Calm Mind or Cosmic power, and one move to heal (for me is Wish, but you can use Moonlight as you want, but like i said-again- rain is up like all weeks, so Moonlight is a bad choice). So you got only 2 more slot. Stored Power is obvious. The last slot can be Charge Beam or Flamethrower like you said. But seriously, you can ONLY get FlameTh AT THE END OF EPI 13. So don't tell me that FT is good. ANd you need to pick from these: Calm Mind/ Cosmic Power/ Moonblast/ FlameThr. Ridiculous. Four-moveslot-syndrome. ANd my Gyarados got Aqua Tail/ Ice Fang, DD and SUBSTITUTE. SO don't tell me about status like burn or Par/ or i just need one Lum Berry for every battle. Simple.
5, If you want to use this strategy, i got a MUCH MORE POWER CANDIDATE for this. Name Espeon. I got an Eevee team with baton pass Acid Armor, Agility, Calm Mind to Espeon, and it works flawless.
Compare Espeon to Clefable: Much more power (130 base sp.atk)/ Much more speed (110)/ STAB stored power (x1.5)/ Magic Bounce (so don't talk about status). Is that enough? Espeon is way-better than Clefable (just in-game only,don't teach me about competitive)

P/s: i like the name Tinkerballer, but seriously, this guy-no-little fairy is NOT that great. Trust me, she'll stay forever in my Rarelyused Box

[Qaaz]

Well I consider Gyarados an overrated Pokémon for newbies (no offense) and I will try this combo for sure

[Magus]

Ya dingus Clefable is OU, to top that Gyarados isn't even in the game anymore, you can't underestimate the power and potential of this. You can use espeon like this, but it will not last because it lacks HP bulk. I KNOW the power of Gyarados (FFS I was an early pioneer). Hax run rampant, and this just an alternative (and creative) way to fill the void that our dragon god has left us. And then you realize how much more powerful it is. Also you can get a Cleffa very early in the game so yeah there is that.

[Palpatine]

You can get clefairy in early game in reborn city itself, well cleffa anyways, and your strategy could work in some cases, but I still would like my magic red fish back , but this late in game, my blue lobster and his mega launcher works nicely as well

Exaaactly

Clawitzer is a freaking beast!

EDIT:

Also on the topic of Scolipede being a wingman i'd really recomend parring him ith Metagross. Swords Dances + Speed Boost. I literally swept and entire ubers team in competitive with that (there's even a video of it somehere on the forum lol)

Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt your way to victory, plus Metagross can take some hits pretty damn good

Edited September 23, 2014 by Palpatine

[Gaunt]

LOL, NO. I got like 1..., no, 10 000 reasons that Clefable is NOT what you think it is. And stop comparing it to the mighty Gyarados. Trust me, i got a Clefabel just like you said, but it's NOT that great. Here we go:

1, In the previous version, gyarados can get very early, and after the hard-time 'till lv 20, he can perform the one-man-show to almost every battles (even with gym leaders). And training him is very easy, especially rain is up like for-ever in reborn. Clefable comes pretty late (in Agate circus, but even in Reborn city you need max happiness), but you have to do A LOT OF HARD TIME TRAINING it (low power, frail, and like no-attaking moves at all)

2, Stats. Gigantic base attack and decent 81 speed, AND dragon dance + moxie combo. But clefable? all mediocre. If you want to sweep with clefable, with iron defense boost and speed boost ONLY, that's ridiculous. And don't tell me about +6 defense and +6 speed, because only stupid AI (and never be with gym leader) will let you use Iron defense 3 times in a row to abuse that. With the frail of Scolipede, ONE iron defense will be in most cases. So 3 speed boost (with protect of course) and one iron defense, you got 120 base power of Stored Power. So if you want to sweep, you NEED Cosmic Power or the best is Calm Mind for your Clefable. But gyarados can got +6 atk very simple, just make sure your opponent got...enough pokemons to knee down this al-mighty dragon (and stop comment that it does not have Dragon type- I KNOW IT)

3, Scolipede is good with ALL POKEMONS, NOT ONLY CLEFABLE. And what if i told you that i use Sword dance + Speed Boost Ninjask to Gyarados to compare with Iron defense + Speed boost Scolipede to Clefable?

4, Moveset. Like i said, Clefable need Calm Mind or Cosmic power, and one move to heal (for me is Wish, but you can use Moonlight as you want, but like i said-again- rain is up like all weeks, so Moonlight is a bad choice). So you got only 2 more slot. Stored Power is obvious. The last slot can be Charge Beam or Flamethrower like you said. But seriously, you can ONLY get FlameTh AT THE END OF EPI 13. So don't tell me that FT is good. ANd you need to pick from these: Calm Mind/ Cosmic Power/ Moonblast/ FlameThr. Ridiculous. Four-moveslot-syndrome. ANd my Gyarados got Aqua Tail/ Ice Fang, DD and SUBSTITUTE. SO don't tell me about status like burn or Par/ or i just need one Lum Berry for every battle. Simple.

5, If you want to use this strategy, i got a MUCH MORE POWER CANDIDATE for this. Name Espeon. I got an Eevee team with baton pass Acid Armor, Agility, Calm Mind to Espeon, and it works flawless.

Compare Espeon to Clefable: Much more power (130 base sp.atk)/ Much more speed (110)/ STAB stored power (x1.5)/ Magic Bounce (so don't talk about status). Is that enough? Espeon is way-better than Clefable (just in-game only,don't teach me about competitive)

P/s: i like the name Tinkerballer, but seriously, this guy-no-little fairy is NOT that great. Trust me, she'll stay forever in my Rarelyused Box

This

I understand that Clefable is a viable Pokemon but you can't even compare it to Gyarados, he's simply a (much) better sweeper.

I killed with him (almost) every single Gym Leader in the game no other Pokemon (except Blaziken) can do the same.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Gaunt

[Magus]

Well I consider Gyarados an overrated Pokémon for newbies (no offense) and I will try this combo for sure

This, I'll leave you with a quote from Karen:"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best. I like your style. You understand what's important. Go on — — the Champion is waiting."

[Gaunt]

I'll leave you with a quote from Karen:"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best. I like your style. You understand what's important. Go on — — the Champion is waiting."

I agree completely, fun fact: Gyarados is my favorite Pokemon and i had one in all of my playthrough's

Also Karen's statement disagrees with the title of your topic

Edited September 23, 2014 by Gaunt

[Magus]

I agree completely, fun fact: Gyarados is my favorite Pokemon

Also Karen's statement disagrees with the title of your topic

I never said that gyarados was bad or that people who use him are bad. I love fairy types as they are my favorite, I like to try new things and this Clefable works well. I won't discredit those who still use gyarados. Any pokemon can be more powerful than others, hell I've seen a magikarp sweep a whole team of legendaries, in the end it doesn't matter what BST a mon or its typing, it all comes down to what trainer you are and how you play. In my playthrough Clefable is more powerful than Gyarados, and in yours, Gyarados is a badass god who rains down destruction upon the weak. It is all about preference.

[Duster]

As someone who used Clefable in-game with a moveset of stored power, charge beam, moonlight, and cosmic power I can say that it is the most powerful Pokemon in my possession. I eventually had to deposit it because I could sweep every gym leader with a few turns of setting up and the game posed no challenge.

[Vinny]

It is all about preference.

This is where it ends. Gyarados will always be the GOD, the janitor, the destroyer, the soul reaper in my playthrough. The only reason Ame moved Gyarados it's because of it's weird combination of good things. I mean, we can have a simple look at it:

- Gyarados was very easy to get. Pay for a Magikarp and just wait.

- Gyarados has a very good typing. 4x weak to electric? Yeah, but chances are, you're not going to use Gyarados against Julia anyway.

- Gyarados weird combination of Dragon Rage + Moxie is devastating early on. Most things can't take more than 2 Dragon Rage, and the ones that can, well it's no problem. The things you killed with Dragon Rage raised your attack because of Moxie, so a Bite should be enough.

Gyarados was too good for the early game, but being completely honest: There's a lot of other pokes that could be in Magikarp's place, AND they would be just as good. Also, people tend to forget that Charmeleon gets Dragon Rage too, to completely destroy the early game. But just like Gaunt said, Gyarados is one of my favorite pokes, so yes... i'll use it as much as i can.

i want to try that clefable tho

Well I consider Gyarados an overrated Pokémon for newbies (no offense)

[gutten_tag]

In my playthrough Clefable is more powerful than Gyarados

i really want to know the moveset you use with your clefable (don't count Flamethrower after ep 13). I just care about gym leaders' battles. I guess: Moonblast/ Moonlight/ Stored Power/ (and don't know exactly, maybe Cosmic Power??). With this, and a winged- man Scolipede, and you can sweep with "more powerful than Gyarados". The only reason i can explain that is....you've never used Gyarados at all

As i said before, as an example with combo like this, Sword Dance + Speed Boost Ninjask + ANY PHYSICAL SWEEPER can be much better than Clefable. Blaziken/ Infernape/ Conkeldurr/ Mienshao/ Metagross/.... anyone (and i'm talking about Reborn game, not competitive, i know how dangerous Clefable is in OU)

And my Espeon can OHKO most enemies with Stored Power after get enough boost, so basically the HP or defense stats is worthless (with the same base 120 attack Stored Power, Espeon's attack is more than double power than Clefable)

[Felicity]

Torterra

[Damage]

Oh Lord Gyrados, please forgive those who would speak poorly or even modestly of you. There are viable seconds nay, acceptable 5ths to your power.

In all honesty though is Metagross not a good cover or are we not talking about him cause he comes in a tad late.

[wallacethepig]

If we're talking early game, Kriketot/Kriketune is a total beast. Fury Cutter saved me so many times. Once you get it to one-shot mode, it's game over for whoever you're facing. Whismur/Loudred/Exploud is great, too.

Mid-Game, a Houndoom is glorious, as is a Graveler/Golem. Sturdy Graveler with Rock Blast decimated Shelly's Yanmega, and Rock Blast Golem decimated Shade's Chandelure. If you do run Houndoom, make sure it learns Flamethrower before it evolves so you can cream Serra.

Late-Game, we've got just about whatever you want. Clefable, Chandelure, and whatever else you want.

As far as I know, your starter should be pretty good at at least a few points in the game. Don't ever underestimate the starter.

But honestly, you want to know what saved me? Cotton Candy. The stuff is glorious. As long as I had around 3-6 in my inventory, I was more or less able to overcome every challenge thrown my way. And if you take the time to go back to the Pokemon center in Opal after EVERY trainer battle and avoid using potions whenever possible, you can save quite a bit of money. Check every rock, barrel and crate for items. You'll eventually have cash out the wazoo.

Every Pokemon can have a chance to shine if you give it a chance. Unless you run Unknown. Then you're just an idiot.

[gutten_tag]

As someone who used Clefable in-game with a moveset of stored power, charge beam, moonlight, and cosmic power I can say that it is the most powerful Pokemon in my possession. I eventually had to deposit it because I could sweep every gym leader with a few turns of setting up and the game posed no challenge.

LOL, what exactly is "every gym leaders" you mention?? I mean, Charlotte?? LOL, zero percent. Even Samson you got very little chance. Not- fully- invested EVs and nature to Defense Clefable will got OHKO by Hariyama with Heavy Slam. And not- fully-invested EVs and nature to Sp.Atk Clefable cannot OHKO Hariyama with base 144 HP. And Mach Punch Conkeldurr of Samson can take more than 50% HP of max HP Clefable. Trust me, i know that Samson's field effected give him a lot of advantages, but after the fight with Samson, i throw my Clefable to PC for good. And what gym leaders you can use Clefable?? Clefable or any set-up sweeper got screwed with double battle. No-way Clefable can help you against Shade or Serra or Charlotte or Noel (Cincino will f*ck your Clefable up) even Randomus (Trick Room f*ck up Speed Boost), and Luna will laugh at Stored Power (and your moveset doesn't have Moonblast to deal with Dark type). So if you think it can Sweep "every gym leaders with a few turns of setting up", I have to think that maybe it's just theory. Or just some normal AI trainers on the road. But NOT GYM LEADERS.

Edited September 23, 2014 by gutten_tag

[Magus]

The only reason i can explain that is....you've never used Gyarados at all

Bro I pioneered Gyarados, my first post was all about how broken he was, sped ran the game with him on my main team. I've been using him since episode 7, I know his power. Also I can't find swords dance for Scolipede, and he doesn't learn it naturally. In conjunction with other mons, I can see a lot of potential for this, but I use Clefable because he is my favorite pokemon. Also moveset is Cosmic Power, Stored Power, Moon Blast and charge beam. I'm still testing movesets right now though.

[gutten_tag]

Bro I pioneered Gyarados, my first post was all about how broken he was, sped ran the game with him on my main team. I've been using him since episode 7, I know his power. Also I can't find swords dance for Scolipede, and he doesn't learn it naturally. In conjunction with other mons, I can see a lot of potential for this, but I use Clefable because he is my favorite pokemon. Also moveset is Cosmic Power, Stored Power, Moon Blast and charge beam. I'm still testing movesets right now though.

so....basically no healing move? well, maybe you think Cosmic power and defense boost from Scolipede is enough. But i use Clefable alone, no baton passer, so it is screwed most of the times with gym leaders. But hey, if we got a BPer, anyone can be good, not only Clefable. And maybe you can say this will be more exactly: "Scolipede and Clefable ARE better than Gyarados alone". Yeah, i think the Destroyer can accept this -___-

Edited September 23, 2014 by gutten_tag