Wi-fi Clause in Reborn Ladder

[Jelly]

Wifi default in reborn ladder?!

Since the advent of B/W, Wifi Clause has been a staple in competitive battling. Reborn, however, still has not implemented Wifi Clause in the default tier, XY OU (6G OverUsed), and it is time we change that! Having team preview is better than not having it, as it allows the game to be more skill based and less luck based, which is how anything competitive should be. There is less luck involved in Team Preview because one no longer has to worry about hopelessly being in a bad lead match up, and predicting is more skillful in team preview than without it since you at least know the potential Pokemon your opponent could switch into. But besides just making the game more competitive, it also opens up whole new play-styles, for example, HO, which relies a lot on knowing what the remaining Pokemon on the opponents team are. With all this said, it is about time that Reborn also decides to make team preview the default setting while laddering.

Edited August 10, 2014 by JellyMan

[Lobos]

I agree, such notion about a game of luck is flawed in the competitive scene. Pokemon Online was never focused on guesses and what if's; instead it created a player based system which would allow multiple people to experience the thrill and struggle that brought forth the puzzle that is competative battling. By not enabling the usage of the WiFi-Clause, which the creators of Pokemon so strongly created in Gen 5, you are allowing the players to go in blindly and not experience such Euphoria of winning fairly. I ask not much but of one thing, implement one of the most basic tools that has been bestowed upon us yet has been denied.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Lobos

[Guest]

I back this

[Lil' Baby Rupe]

Finally some sanity

[Vex]

No reason not to have it

[Kamina]

Not a bad idea. I like!

[Moony]

great idea mate, couldn't come up with anything better,,,

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I throw my hat into this ring. I find such a thing a good thing in battle, as it allows one to actually have a chance to counter an enemy lead, etc...It is another layer to the game that actually makes it more interesting imo. Rather than just playing the Fog of War, and just what is on the field. It allows people to have to choose whether to predict an opponents switch out, or go in for the kill. But not only that, you have to decide what mon they will switch in etc... imo this makes the game more dynamic and decision making really count, rather than press super effective move on current field mon, or try to predict something they may or may not have.to come out.

It would be a welcome change imo, and I would not oppose it. It is a reason I play on Showdown a bit. (I don't consider myself a Smogonite, since I am not a part of their community, but that won't stop me from using their client.) I like that while I do know my opponents mons, it actually adds to the tension of battle rather than subtract from it. Knowing, I will have to make some tough choices ahead of time makes the battle more interesting and allows me to properly plan etc.

So basically, you got me on your side here Jelly, even if I may not be the best battler on Earth, I wanted to throw out my piece while I could.

[Arkhi]

But I like mystery. If you're not init2winit, not knowing's good fun.

[Momotaro]

I agree with this, if there is going to be competition, we shouldn't give the competitors more luck based things than the game already presents to you (such as chances to flinch, how many turns will a pokemon wake up, when the pokemon decides to hurt itself in confusion, etc), the ones presented already is enough of an RGN luck thing that can definitely turn the tides of a battle, the non-skilled guessing game of what pokemon the opponent will have is one thing a competitive battle should have in terms of skill (even if there will probably be people that would be against it since "element of surprise"). Knowing what pokemons we are up against makes it a more skill based prediction match, where you'd try to read your opponent's thoughts on what pokemon he will chose, and what move he will make (will he use sucker punch this turn? or go for a different move to trick me?).

[Copashi]

honestly I disagree with this, i like that fog of war i think it's more fun this way especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great. the more annoying thing about this topic is that AO decided to all just back this up in their backchannel just to all agree on it and they had Jelly write up the topic rather than the one who had the idea(Kamina). also the most bizarre acting like they just read it <<

Edited August 10, 2014 by Copashi

[Momotaro]

But I like mystery. If you're not init2winit, not knowing's good fun.

As I figured, but maybe there's a good workaround, this kind of thing is for ladders ( I think) it's not like it's going to be this way on every single battle you do against other people. Plus, an option to play with unknown opponents could be made for those that want to randomize a little.

[Joker]

I also back this. It's something I've wanted on Reborn for a long while.

[Lobos]

honestly I disagree with this, i like that fog of war i think it's more fun this way especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great. the more annoying thing about this topic is that AO decided to all just back this up in their backchannel just to all agree on it and they had Jelly write up the topic rather than the one who had the idea(Kamina). also the most bizarre acting like they just read it <<

The most bizzare thing I see and most surprising is how even if this statement is true what's stopping a single or group from expressing their thoughts into what could be for the better of an entity? As far as I see it, I think that this is an exemplar to what happens when people unite for a single cause becuase it shows how dedicated and the compassion that's put into it. Now I'm not hating on your comment or yourself but when you put out blunty "acting like they just read it", it begs the question. How the hell do you know?

[Void]

There is no such thing as BW/XY without team preview in the actual games anyway. If you want to play those without preview for fun that's cool, but definitely should not be the default setting.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Void

[Lil' Baby Rupe]

honestly I disagree with this, i like that fog of war i think it's more fun this way especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great. the more annoying thing about this topic is that AO decided to all just back this up in their backchannel just to all agree on it and they had Jelly write up the topic rather than the one who had the idea(Kamina). also the most bizarre acting like they just read it <<

>especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great.

The fuck?

Seriously...

The fuck?

[Magus]

YES, the reason why I never liked playing on our server was because there was no WIFI clause. Not having a team preview essentially meant you had to rely on luck, which killed any strategy in the battle.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Magus

[Copashi]

>especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great.

The fuck?

Seriously...

The fuck?

there are plenty of none OU pokemon that you can use in OU teams with success against anyone

[Guest]

honestly I disagree with this, i like that fog of war i think it's more fun this way especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great. the more annoying thing about this topic is that AO decided to all just back this up in their backchannel just to all agree on it and they had Jelly write up the topic rather than the one who had the idea(Kamina). also the most bizarre acting like they just read it <<

How many of these people are there?

Also this argument doesn't really make sense. You want the fog of war so you think you'd have a chance because you use less OU Pokemon, like, what?

And sure the surprise factor is great but it should not be default. If anything if you disable ladder, then the preview should not come up, but if you force rated battles and have ladder enabled, then, preview must be up I believe. That way it's fair for both.

And uh

>you claim that this is an AO inspired thread

>>more people outside of AO agree

where is your argument

please find proof before pointing the finger next time ty

[Neo]

In a shocking turn of events, I'm gonna agree that we need wifi clause on the ladder. At this stage in the game, it'd be foolish to go further without it.

[Cowtao]

And uh

>you claim that this is an AO inspired thread

>>more people outside of AO agree

where is your argument

please find proof before pointing the finger next time ty

Technically Copashi is right. >>;

This thread was in the works by Kamina and a majority of the AO members at the time. Kam didn't know how to finish it so Jelly decided he wanted to finish it I guess. Considering that a majority of the AO members already commented in agreement towards this, and some of the members barely comment outside of Tier Changes/Nations/League then yeah. It technically is a fair estimate. However...

It doesn't make it right to suddenly slap the label and call it AO inspired. It's just inspired and made by a person that's not even in the clan.. >>; Just because a lot of the members of one clan like a certain thing, suddenly doesn't make it inspired by said clan. Keep it civil y'all or i'll have to bust out the delete comment hammer.

....Oh, and I agree all the way. Randoms in Reborn that have never battled usually will have an obscure weird pokemon that never works in every other scenario but one against your team and will somehow win due to BS. This will mitigate that. This also would have mitigated ST Chandelure last gen. Y'know. Just saying. >>;

[Shanco]

I'm in agreement with Copashi for the most part.

Nonetheless I'm all for wifi so long as it doesn't become the "main attraction" so to speak. Wifi is long overdue.

[Guest]

Technically Copashi is right. >>;

This thread was in the works by Kamina and a majority of the AO members at the time. Kam didn't know how to finish it so Jelly decided he wanted to finish it I guess. Considering that a majority of the AO members already commented in agreement towards this, and some of the members barely comment outside of Tier Changes/Nations/League then yeah. It technically is a fair estimate. However...

It doesn't make it right to suddenly slap the label and call it AO inspired. It's just inspired and made by a person that's not even in the clan.. >>; Just because a lot of the members of one clan like a certain thing, suddenly doesn't make it inspired by said clan. Keep it civil y'all or i'll have to bust out the delete comment hammer.

....Oh, and I agree all the way. Randoms in Reborn that have never battled usually will have an obscure weird pokemon that never works in every other scenario but one against your team and will somehow win due to BS. This will mitigate that. This also would have mitigated ST Chandelure last gen. Y'know. Just saying. >>;

To me, the tone Copashi adopted was aggressive, rather than the passive tone that you've adopted, which is evidently unbiased or whatever you want to call it, since he blatantly pointed the finger and was like

"Hey this is TOTALLY only AO", when, many people back this up. Wifi is long overdue, and the excuse of random sets being fun. Like I said, if you want to use non OU in OU that's your problem entirely, and you should bear the brunt of it. All I'm saying here, is that I don't necessarily think pointing the finger at AO members in such an accusatory manner is a nice thing to do, you know? He has an issue with this thread being heavily AO influenced, according to him, and I have a problem with the aggressive tone he's adopted in attempting to make a point he can't reinforce.

So what if the thread was in the works by people such as Kamina, who else ladders as much as the AO lot? A few people, actually.. It doesn't mean that they're pushing it for their own benefit, you know?

i like that fog of war i think it's more fun this way especially to those of us that like to use none OU pokemon on the OU ladder the suprise factor is always great.

This was Copashi's point. Tell me how relevant it is. If it's fun, there's the unrated OU ladder just for kicks, there're people unidled ready on the server, that's not a valid point at all for not having Wifi Clause on. The AO lot, as said above, ladder a lot so of course this thread would matter, and of course they're going to state their agreement or disagreement or whatever. It's like you being apart of a book club permanently, and some people are in and out, and a referendum comes out. You will vote, and the randoms that happen to be casual members might vote as well. It's almost the same principle. What matters to them is what they're going to vote on.

Like, he's annoyed that it's possibly AO influenced, okay, I'm annoyed that he's gone on the front foot and blamed AO in such a manner that deems this thread, in my eyes, to be a detrimental threat to the ladder that no one really uses.

And look @ the top 30 odd or something on the ladder.

http://prntscr.com/4bed5t

http://prntscr.com/4bedkl

What, half of these people are AO or something?

They're not pushing it for their own good, but for the whole server's benefit as well. The way I see it, and the way they see it, is that Reborn is behind in terms of this stuff. It's PO wide now, Wifi Clause in laddering, it's stock standard, and if people come here regularly to ladder as well as be apart of the community, particularly stragglers from Beta, you'd want to have that, and you might attract new members, you know?

Everyone has their own opinions, and I'm sure the people who actually want non-wifi on the server ladder will stand up, but.

If you're willing to get into technicalities, well.. There's no point in this whole thing because everyone will side with something and we'll be back in square one again.

tl;dr AO are pushing for this to have Reborn on the level of Beta in terms of laddering etc, and are trying to make it fun for everyone, since people have different types of fun on the ladder, and the surprise factor is can be shown whilst in Wifi as well, due to them knowing the Pokemon, not the set being run.

As for technicalities, well.. I'd rather we not get into that.

[Copashi]

How many of these people are there?

Also this argument doesn't really make sense. You want the fog of war so you think you'd have a chance because you use less OU Pokemon, like, what?

And sure the surprise factor is great but it should not be default. If anything if you disable ladder, then the preview should not come up, but if you force rated battles and have ladder enabled, then, preview must be up I believe. That way it's fair for both.

And uh

>you claim that this is an AO inspired thread

>>more people outside of AO agree

where is your argument

please find proof before pointing the finger next time ty

I know it's an Ao inspired thread because i was in call with Jelly while it was made and he told me.

reguardless i have no desire to argue here anymore considering even if i do i will be in the vast minority

Edited August 10, 2014 by Copashi

[Void]

I know it's an Ao inspired thread because i was in call with Jelly while it was made and he told me.

reguardless i have no desire to argue here anymore considering even if i do i will be in the vast minority

tbh that's probably just because AO makes up the majority of semi-decent players on here anyway.

In any case, it doesn't matter if you're in the vast minority if your arguments are solid. If you have anything left to say you might as well just say it (as long as it's a legitimate point rather than a matter of personal preference).

Edited August 11, 2014 by Void