Administrators Amethyst Posted May 1, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 1, 2014 If the point of adding and removing new pokemon is to actually create varied team options throughout the game, then I think the real key isn't to remove them at all but to find the place where that unbelievable power fits. Basically... organizing pokemon's arrivals into the game based on their tier. That's been more or less the idea, but for a while I humoured exceptions for things like Vulpix and Magikarp whom, the events I had planned for them really only made sense earlier in the game With Bulbasaur, you raise some good points. Keep in mind that part of the game was technically made before Chespin existed. It would be pretty easy to switch those two if I decide I want to, but tbh neither event is very difficult, only later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashonem Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I would rather Ame remove things like Kricketot in favor of Gardevoir or Gyarados because Kricketot distinctively requires much less effort than either of those other 'mons. Bug type. Evolves pretty early, learns Fury Cutter (which, if spammed, can get absolutely ridiculous considering we're talking about...well.....Kricketune. On the other hand, how many people would consider bringing along Technician Kricketune to go battle Luna? It wouldn't be a -bad- idea. Kricketune rapidly loses value after facing Corey. It's like using Dragon Rage: a crutch in the beginning, exponentially useless after the 3rd gym. Besides, how many people actually use Kricketune, even when it's in its useful stages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthalt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 That's been more or less the idea, but for a while I humoured exceptions for things like Vulpix and Magikarp whom, the events I had planned for them really only made sense earlier in the game With Bulbasaur, you raise some good points. Keep in mind that part of the game was technically made before Chespin existed. It would be pretty easy to switch those two if I decide I want to, but tbh neither event is very difficult, only later I realize Bulbasaur was from before Chespin existed, up until chespin's existence I might have suggested swapping bulbasaur to something a little more harmless... like treeko (poor treeko... how I love him... but how he needs so much special training and breeding just to compete with pokemon who have a movepool to fit their stats...); really any other grass type could have worked for the swap, and I suggested switching the order of receiving them over swapping them out entirely because it reduces the backlash people would give when their favourite pokemon gets snatched away from them after already having been in the game (the sort of groaning that Gyrados and Garde are receiving right now, and you haven't even dropped them from the game yet). The difficulty of the event itself doesn't matter here in my opinion. The timing is much more important for the balance of things. Getting Rotom for instance is way harder than both (requiring the key to the power plant which requires a puzzle/maze more challenging than the bulbasaur or chespin events combined) and venusaur would still probably use him to clean his teeth after eating the reuniclus you picked up on the way. The question is, does bumping that venusaur's arrival back to just before you fight Luna make a significant enough difference in the resistance it will face to make it worthwhile from the perspective of the work it would take you? Maybe not... But later would definitely help a little. The same psychological mechanic could also work to slow down other super powerful pokemon (though honestly... who is more powerful than venusaur after getting a high-five from ninetails drought?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojama Yellow Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 This may sound a little farfetch'd (see what I did there... pokepuns) but here me out. Swap bulbasaur with chespin in their respective events. Chesnaught is an a solid physical wall, with a nice range of supporting moves, and a cool ability. Venusaur is an unstoppable god eating monster of doom that you gaze upon in horror as he devours everything in his path (EVERYTHING!). I initially didn't take venusaur because I wanna catch'em all and he's already in the game as an event (instead I took my favourite starter, sceptile and paid dearly for my choice); as a result the game was hard... really hard. Then I found the little bulbasaur... and with a little creative breeding (which honestly wasn't that necessary I just wanted sludge bomb and giga drain because... well... unstoppable god eating monster of doom...)... the game wasn't hard anymore. From that point on I'd fight battles... things would look bad and my team would be getting swept... down to my last pokemon I would sigh and say "fine... I guess I'll win now..." and out would come venusaur. A sleep powder, a couple growths, and it didn't matter what stood in his way. He swept the ice gym. He swept Fern (who then called me a cheater... and horror of horrors... with venusaur on my team... he was right). So why swap chespin and bulbasaur's events and not just remove bulbasaur as an event entirely? Because the fact that he is attainable later in the game discourages him as a choice for starter in the early game (I haven't hit episode 11's fight's yet but I can only hope they're ready for venusaur when I get there). Chesnaught on the other hand is nice... but he's not going to single handedly sweep 6 ice types in a 2 on 1 double battle after the rest of your team faints)... If the point of adding and removing new pokemon is to actually create varied team options throughout the game, then I think the real key isn't to remove them at all but to find the place where that unbelievable power fits. Basically... organizing pokemon's arrivals into the game based on their tier. I realize Bulbasaur was from before Chespin existed, up until chespin's existence I might have suggested swapping bulbasaur to something a little more harmless... like treeko (poor treeko... how I love him... but how he needs so much special training and breeding just to compete with pokemon who have a movepool to fit their stats...); really any other grass type could have worked for the swap, and I suggested switching the order of receiving them over swapping them out entirely because it reduces the backlash people would give when their favourite pokemon gets snatched away from them after already having been in the game (the sort of groaning that Gyrados and Garde are receiving right now, and you haven't even dropped them from the game yet). The difficulty of the event itself doesn't matter here in my opinion. The timing is much more important for the balance of things. Getting Rotom for instance is way harder than both (requiring the key to the power plant which requires a puzzle/maze more challenging than the bulbasaur or chespin events combined) and venusaur would still probably use him to clean his teeth after eating the reuniclus you picked up on the way. The question is, does bumping that venusaur's arrival back to just before you fight Luna make a significant enough difference in the resistance it will face to make it worthwhile from the perspective of the work it would take you? Maybe not... But later would definitely help a little. The same psychological mechanic could also work to slow down other super powerful pokemon (though honestly... who is more powerful than venusaur after getting a high-five from ninetails drought?). Oh god make it happen. I love Venusaur, even without his Growth, because Leech Seed/Sleep Powder spam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truly Deceptive Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 People should understand that removing Pokémon will only reduce diversity; for example, Abra was initially a viable alternative to Ralts before it was moved so far ahead. If you want to increase the game's diversity without relying upon a select single Pokémon, you should increase the number of early event Pokémon in the game and make the early battles a bit tougher (maybe give Pokémon stronger, more effective moves against those early-game Pokémon, such as Crunch and a few others that can be obtained by breeding; maybe even rearrange a few opposing Trainers' teams to include Dark-type and Ghost-type Pokémon). That's what should level out the playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBackwardsLegsMan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I like a challenge so, after my first run in which I exclusively used Speed Boost Blaziken, Moxie Gyrados and Gardevior(/Gallade later on), three of the most obviously powerful pokemon in the game, I just made a rule that I can't use anything I consider "overpowered." I did use Gallade in my second run, but I didn't evolve my Kirlia until I got the Dawn Stone, at which point I don't think he's OP anymore. If Ame wanted to up the difficulty significantly she could remove any one of those/make it available much later in the game. I can say from experience that you can get through all of the required battles up to the current episode only using three pokemon, even if you don't have one of the three (technically 4) mons I listed above. With a full team of 6 you should be able to manage any fight without having to rely on luck, even with a disadvantageous starter like Treeko (I've only played through with Torchic and Turtwig thus far, but again I only used three pokemon on my team so I think you could make up for a "bad" starter with a full team). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted May 1, 2014 Veterans Share Posted May 1, 2014 Yep, that was the source of my hesitation. Sorta-.....kinda on topic, Vulpix is now adequately difficult to obtain. The Mechanightmare Klingklang can be taken down before battling Corey, but it's a real pain if you don't get lucky when succeeding and being rewarded with Flash Fire Vulpix instead of Drought at that point in time. Props. Swagger Luxray from daycare grinding muhahahahahahhahah th Mechanightmare could nto handle the SWAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikzal Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) There will always be pokemon that are more sought after than others no matter how many we (re)move. Edited May 1, 2014 by Mikzal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Aaayy, it's got Swagger, TM87~... I dunno, I think Technician Kricketune could be vary valuable against Radomus and Luna. It all, of course, depends on how you play the game. Some people go with the Common Candy - "I LIKE MAH TEAM AS IS" route. In which case, I probably wouldn't be totin' around Kricketune, but because I don't want to use Common Candies, I'm always looking for Pokemon to make a team specifically made to get me past the next challenge. Kricketune has great situatiional use, and Technician allows for it to get great damage RIGHT AWAY, even on some of the better Pokemon. (of course, it's not very defensive and probably wouldn't get a second chance to attack, but that's what my team building strategy is all about.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Lore Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Going to be honest- Kricketune is my favourite Bug-type, and I still have yet to use one in Reborn... although Technician-boosted Fury Cutters demolishing things in the early game makes sense. Considering how weak Florinia's team (bar Phantump) and two-thirds of ZEL/Taka's team is to Bug. (The latter case is something I had overlooked until I sent out Dewott and started stacking Fury Cutters... I was amused. Very amused.) As for Gyarados/Gardevoir... the latter is admittedly a member on my team in my main file, but I have never really actively used the former, since Reborn isn't exactly starved for Water-types, and there are literally so many other options I'd rather use more. So it's as much of a matter of opinion as everything else, when it comes to building an in-game team- you use what you want, not something else because it's more powerful than the other options you have. (Gyarados isn't, actually- I used Azumarill for a good portion of the game and that thing slays. Hard.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojama Yellow Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Surprised this didn't come up yet, but... Mime Jr. With Technician, this thing literally kills everything early in-game, and you can get it very early (I got it shiny HURRRRRR). Not to mention that it learns Mimic at lv 15, enabling it to evolve at that level. I don't think he should be completely removed...just put a little farther on in the game. And I do know that Ralts/Kirlia is another Psychic/Fairy type, but let's be rational: you can get a Mr. Mime with Confusion boosted by STAB and Technician at lv 15. It outclasses Ralts, and even Kirlia, by far...at that point. Later on, Gardevoir will be a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted May 3, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 3, 2014 I had already decided to change that one too. I'm thinking I'll swap it with Gothita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted May 3, 2014 Veterans Share Posted May 3, 2014 Surprised this didn't come up yet, but... Mime Jr. With Technician, this thing literally kills everything early in-game, and you can get it very early (I got it shiny HURRRRRR). Not to mention that it learns Mimic at lv 15, enabling it to evolve at that level. I don't think he should be completely removed...just put a little farther on in the game. And I do know that Ralts/Kirlia is another Psychic/Fairy type, but let's be rational: you can get a Mr. Mime with Confusion boosted by STAB and Technician at lv 15. It outclasses Ralts, and even Kirlia, by far...at that point. Later on, Gardevoir will be a lot better. exactly in my psychic mono type for the first few gyms julia to corey this guy was a beast killing everything with stab technician confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timber Dragon Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Then I'll just take a page from my Dark-type mono run and sweep Julia with one or two Mightyenas. I hope you won't (re)move those, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyKnight Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 well, you can remove just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted May 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2014 Mightyena is pretty lackluster, so like Kricketune, I'm fine with it being abused early. It's the things that scale on to be so good later-on that I'm concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzylard Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I can tell you right now, though you guys are basically on the money already, the only ones I'm considering are Gyarados and Gardevoir. There's basically no reason for anyone to get any other water, psychic or fairy types with those two being as strong and as early as they are. DON'T YOU DARE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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