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Types Hurt & Heal (BUG TYPE WINS with 8 HP)

dragonsbeat

By dragonsbeat
in Onyx Arcade

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Wolfox

Wolfox

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Posted
12 minutes ago, dragonsbeat said:

When did ghost die it shouldn't because they are already dead they should've won but np

I'm gonna go with a type that I say I hate but I love bugs

So

Ice: 2

Bug: 5

Poison: 7

please use colors to show which you are hurting. also, hurt is always -2

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NickCrash

NickCrash

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Posted

@Alistair @Jess 

I mention you two, as representatives of the opposing sides in this debate. Yet, this response is not directed to you two only.

 

A few introductory notes, if I may:
Hurting a type because its supporters hurt yours, is perfectly fine as a logic. A bit petty, but still justifiable. That's the way the majority votes, at least once. If nothing else, it can be exploited by the opponent, because of how predictable a response it can be. 

Grouping together to attack or support a type is not a bad way to play per se. If nothing else, it's a common way to play because it allows co-operation.

 

Working towards your personal goal is the main focus of every game. Naturally, that needs a neural process, as does breathing. Playing without strategy differs from a braindead approach to a game. A strategy needs to have (except from a goal) a plan, a means, and an opponent. If nothing else, these types of games resemble more of a race than a game, since every candidate is running for themselves, gathering support. The only thing that differentiates it from a normal race is the extra ability to hurt the other candidates. 

Now that I've covered the "opponent" part, I'm returning to the "plan". Any thought process has a processing part and a decision. Does that make it a strategy? Certainly not. In order for a decision to be considered a "strategic move", it must be achieving something on its own, setting the basis for or promoting a goal, and taking the opponent into consideration both in what their moves are and what their thought process is. Supporting a type you like is not considered a strategic move (to win a game) any more than drinking water is a strategic move (to stay alive). Let me present a few examples to make that wall of text into a... concrete statement (ba dum tss)

> Vote on a type you like (Ice), while downvoting types randomly or those you don't like (Not Strategy)
> Downvote a popular type and upvote a type you want dead, in order to make the former's supporters downvote out of pettiness the type you supported (Strategy) 

> Same votes, same types everytime, to ensure a constant decrease in numbers for the one you dislike (Strategy)
> Seeing what others vote and try to indirectly get them to avoid downvoting your type, by upvoting their favorite at least once (Strategy)

> Seeing your favorite type died, and move onto the next favorite one / Seeing your least fav died, moving onto the next one (Not Strategy)

> Downvoting types you dislike by alternating among them (Not Strategy)
> Alternating your votes to keep the types at an equilibrium or keep certain fan favs at check (Strategy)

> Voting in favor of Flying (Staraptor)

 

When these tactics include "metagaming", it becomes petty. Then again, nothing forbids this.

 

However, the problem arises when some regard the absence of rules as a moral excuse to do anything. This is not limited to this H&H or H&H in particular. It shows one needs the rules in order not to take the fun out of what everyone else is doing. Here, it does not matter, since the "gameplay" is enough to limit such schemes, just because this type of co-operation could appear on its own, since the original goals of the team members were the same all along. In the case of a more serious vote, or a game that's based on communication (see Mafia games), such tactics go against the very purpose of the game/sport/important decision.

You can still follow the same train of thought and apply them everywhere, and most probably get away with it (since they are forum based), but a forum community just wanting to have fun will not go to the lengths of using bots to check if every interaction was not going against the notion of the game.

 

Furthermore, this is also a declaration of priorities. Up till now (and that's mainly a suggestion for @Alistair) if you knew some backstage planning was going on, they were relying on you not announcing it. Next time, make sure you present what's happening with names and all. That's still technically allowed by the rules. The people indulging in this are obviously more concerned about winning a trivial type preference game than letting people know about this type of behavior, so you'll be even making them a favor.

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Alistair

Alistair

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Posted

@NickCrash You seem to have spent some time on this, which is always appreciated, but I do believe we already knew what was "strategy" and what wasn't. That's not the crux of the issue at hand.

Additionally, I don't feel like I have to provide names and such. While I have no qualms pointing out a situation that I personally don't like, it's not my place to point the finger and give out specific names, especially when I don't have perfect knowledge of who's involved and to what extent. Lastly, it's technically allowed by the rules, as you said, and the situation basically boils down to my own utopic views of what should and shouldn't happen in such a game... not worth antagonizing others over this. I've said what I wanted to say, and people know my position about it; that's enough as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for your input though, I have no doubt many will find this to be an interesting read.

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....

....

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Thiazzi said:

Now Ice is also gone, I'm done with this

 

I'm going to sleep

 

Oh wait, let's make it possible for someone to kill poison :D (also 00.30 AM here)

 

Bug: 7

Poison: 1

Then ~

 

I will end this run ~

 

Goodbye poison !

 

I hate the insects but for the sake of Scizor and Volcarona i will get rid of Poison,

 

Au revoir Poison ~

 

Bug:8

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Jess

Jess

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, NickCrash said:

Hurting a type because its supporters hurt yours, is perfectly fine as a logic. A bit petty, but still justifiable.

It's not petty, it's strategy. When all the Ghost lovers ganged up on Bugs (after your suggestion in one of your previous posts) it was OK, but the Bug type fans aren't allowed to defend the type they prefer? So, I guess strategy is OK only when you are the one who's favoured and petty if you aren't? It's a freaking game, strategy is involved. I said it a million times and I'll say it again, if someone wanted a strategy-less game, we could set up a strawpoll to see which type is the Rebornians' favourite objectively.

Why we didn't? Cause interaction and strategy is the whole fun behind it!

 

Besides, people used it in first place to kill Fairy. They based it on amazing argument, such as "slay the pixies", "pixies are OP and unbalanced", etc. And only a few people (Hycrox and Azeria) were actually providing solid arguments about why they disliked the type and/or considered it OP.

3 hours ago, NickCrash said:

However, the problem arises when some regard the absence of rules as a moral excuse to do anything.

Now, you have to define what's moral and what's immoral. So, messaging a couple of my friends who hadn't voted till then in order to assist against the (well-planned by Ghost/Grass fans) onslaught of Bug type was immoral? I didn't really target their heads with a shotgun and threaten them to vote, they have free will. I just asked for help. I'm the one @Alistair refers to, and it's nothing I consider immoral. In fact, I'm 10000% sure, that others have done similar discussions among the Grass and Ghost type fanbase. They are just hiding behind the morality mask and are too afraid to admit it. Strategy isn't something you should be ashamed of. This game was MADE with such a ruleset that promotes having strategy and cooperation!

 

3 hours ago, NickCrash said:

Furthermore, this is also a declaration of priorities. Up till now (and that's mainly a suggestion for @Alistair) if you knew some backstage planning was going on, they were relying on you not announcing it. Next time, make sure you present what's happening with names and all. That's still technically allowed by the rules. The people indulging in this are obviously more concerned about winning a trivial type preference game than letting people know about this type of behavior, so you'll be even making them a favor.

I don't usually reveal my strategy, until everything has finished. If I revealed it, it wouldn't really work anymore, would it? Plus, @Alistair knew nothing till today, when I joked ubout "bribing" a friend to vote up and help in exchange for me to continue one of my "in hiatus" runs (the Danganronpa rejuvenation one). I hardly bought him any cars/h00k3r$ call that a bribe, right? It was just a joke among friends and you took this tiny innocent thing and turned it into the 8th deadly sin. Calm down, Jesus :D 

Also, of course I wanted my fav type to win this. But I couldn't care less if Bugs won or lost. When @Alistair hurt Bugs in some previous post, I just laughed and told him "God damn it Alistair! :D". Yes, I get competitive at times, I bet nobody else who played this game got competitive. Not the ones that slayed Fairy overnight, or ganged up and got Bug from 24 to 9 in 5 hours. I bet those things were completely unplanned and unscheduled from behind the scenes, and the people orchestrating those weren't competitive at all! :D 

 

End of rant, end of story.

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