Maelstrom Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I was actually wondering if you were gonna pull up the 'turn the other cheek' stance At this point, I don't know if outreach would help or just encourage them to believe they could pull off another one like this. They are notoriously bad at dialogue and have their own holy mission that has little room for compromise. Anyways, as far as this goes, this doesn't seem all that organized if it's just confined to Paris (and in such a short distance from each other). They probably had outside support as far as bomb-making expertise goes, but as far as further organization? I doubt it or other things would have happened in other cities at around the same time. Seriously, they don't even have to coordinate further than "we're doing something on such and such date, you should plan something for then too" and it would seem far wider scale than it actually is with no more than the one sentence as planned collaboration. It takes very little organization for someone to say 'let's get together at this place at this time, then start shooting.' If you haven't noticed from the news, domestic terrorist attacks are far more often done by small cells or attempted by local radicals inspired by ISIS, and not always actually sanctioned, supplied, nor organized by that group. It's part of their own propaganda that they try to get people previously unconnected with them to rise up and do things on their own, and then claim responsibility for whatever the independent group managed to do, despite having nothing more to do with it than being inspirational. It's part of their thing to try to seem to be a part of sort of grass-roots movement. A bunch of the people who turn have been caught trying to go overseas and join ISIS itself as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Tatsumi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I have friends in Paris and thanks they're okay. I live at ~1 hour from Paris, and what i can affirm without fear is that the government will not help citizens. Be sure of that. 120 People died at the moment while ~150 are in critical state, on the verge of dying. Well, the country is in tense, and also stunned by that. The upcoming days will be painful as we'll all see death number grows... Well...I guess you said all has to be said. At house we're having a relay to have anyone being awake at every hour, just to see if the country isn't gonna implode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 No, as far as something like The Islamic States of Iraq and Syria are concerned, I believe ISIS is bluffing on being involved as they usually do when some localized group of jihadists strikes a cord. It's still possible that ISIS assisted in providing the materials - though even that seems like it's entirely easy to acquire within the European Unionized part of the world. The 'ISIS Problem' though is that they are daring another "surge". They will use anything - even outside of their own doing - to incite American boots to hit Syrian or Iraqi soil. Again. Regardless of how I feel that situation should be resolved, the important thing is assisting our French neighbors and brushing off the collateral damage. The last thing we want to do is give that scum leeway and the feeling that they have gained something out of an act like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Tatsumi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ISIS bluffing or not, there is really a problem with terrorism in France, and in Europe aswell. I guess the governements were way too lighty when open Borderlines to immigrees and that's causing more trouble now. Fact is people don't seem to react aswell, always waiting the blood to be spread before doing anything. That's really a sad way to be honestly...Don't know if that's the same from your country...But that's desperating..In France at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 My condolences go out to the victims and their families. The actions of a few can ruin the lives of so many who had nothing to do with the root cause of the struggles. It's sad to see something like this ever unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 This is war people so sooner or later it would have happened (in any big "western" city) and it will probably happen again even more so because it's a "holy" war and those people are fanatics. I hope that after this the EU will understand they have several flaws when dealing with terrorism, for example i still don't understand why they let so many "refugees" (hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions) in without (fully) checking their background, that's just plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ISIS bluffing or not, there is really a problem with terrorism in France, and in Europe aswell. I guess the governements were way too lighty when open Borderlines to immigrees and that's causing more trouble now. Fact is people don't seem to react aswell, always waiting the blood to be spread before doing anything. That's really a sad way to be honestly...Don't know if that's the same from your country...But that's desperating..In France at least. I really can't agree with your assessment of France's border policies. Out of the thousands of people allowed across the the border, a handful of people really aren't reason enough to declare that none should ever cross the border, ever. France has ever been a bastion of rights for the people. Which makes it all the more interesting to see how French policy changes in the next few days. The fact that France waited for that draw of blood first is telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The bloodshed prompted French President Francois Hollande to declare a state of emergency, order the deployment of 1,500 troops around Paris and announce renewed border checks along frontiers that are normally open under Europe's free-travel zone. Hollande convened a special security meeting Saturday morning after vowing to be "merciless" with the nation's foes following what he called unprecedented terrorist attacks. Reflecting fears in other European capitals of the risk of coordinated or copycat attacks, the British government scheduled its own emergency COBRA intelligence committee overseen by Prime Minister David Cameron. Fox News Even a War Hawk on terrorism such as myself hates to see hands being forced like this. Hollande was seen at the international friendly soccer match between the French and German national teams at the Stade de France - not only witnessing the bloodshed of his countrymen in person, but also with his own life jeopardized. It's a little reasonable to assume the grudge being "personal" in many ways than one here. I hope France truly does unify and handles the sanctions with grace - and I hope the world offers her the support it rightfully deserves. If you have to make the call to fight wars such as these, you always want to do it with foresight as opposed to hindsight. France was the first country to give America it's acknowledgement as it's own independent nation - even providing the Continental Army with reinforcements and supplies and bolstering it's strength from a disorganized militia to being the first framework for our armed forces today... The bond between our two countries is inked all over history. I hope we in some way can assist. Again, if any other Parisians happen to stumble across this thread, #PorteOuverte - Reborn will always be a place of respite to any and all who visit. Please make sure you tell us that you're okay - and you'll be in my prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) A friend asked me to come to Paris for her house-warming this weekend. Glad I couldn't. Glad she's ok too. But the problem isn't border policies or spying on people. Most terrorists in France are French, radicalized by islamist propaganda. Border policies are useless against that. The real problem is that Occidental countries let extremists, Daesh (what you call ISIS I guess), grow stronger and stronger over the past years, without serious action against them. And now they're strong enough to do things like this. It reminds me how European countries let Germany grow stronger and stronger and start invading countries before WWII, in a good part because after WWI they feared a new war so much that they didn't acted until Germany was too strong for them... We need to destroy them, completely. Not just a few training camps for "peacekeeping". People may fear a war, but we're already in a war. If we keep waiting, we will only let them grow stronger and kill more people, just to finally make this war. Many more attacks will probably happen if we do so, people will die, but if we don't do anything it will only get worse... Edited November 14, 2015 by Imperial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTim Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I know no words will make up for those who've lost their dearest to the tragedy, nevertheless my prayers for the injured, deceased and the grieving families, hope they stay strong in the face of the worst moments of humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Zumi Posted November 14, 2015 Veterans Share Posted November 14, 2015 i'm still shocked over what happened, and i really hope that anyone who lives in the vicinity of Paris here is safe and sound ;; my condolences to the families and friends who lost people close to them, and my prayers go out to those who were injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspbeh Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 No bad news for the moment... fingers crossed, i'm not even in Paris but i won't leave my house this week-end. My daughter hardly wanted to go to the local fair (300k inhabitants here), we won't. We may be in a war, there is no army, it's just sad and disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 129 deaths, over 350 wounded. =[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star-kin Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Source: http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571 Zouheir did survive, and has ASKED to only be identified by his first name. I feel like this should be at least acknowledged.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanchette Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Source: http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571 Zouheir did survive, and has ASKED to only be identified by his first name. I feel like this should be at least acknowledged.. I feel a little bit bad that someone who potentially saved so many lives go ignored. Times like this I wish I went with my childhood dream of being a journalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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