Cyphre

I just now used Sun Stone on it and it became Hisuian liligant. Not sure what exactly was different.

Okay fair, it is there, it is a good reward and is worth it, sure. But whoever was responsible for Luck text for this contract can go fuck himself, all it tells you that there is no reward yet. Why straight up lie to the player? Was it that hard to tell "the reward will be sent to your room"? Absolutely ridiculous. Will go edit my initial post i guess.

I finished both Paragon and Renegade routes by now and at the very end of the version, "pal". There is no reward for now.

That is a lie. I did it legitimately couple hours ago, grinding 333 fights on the Jenner spirit, once again Luck says reward isnt ready for now and he will send it once it will be available.

I know a video but again if you do it legitimately like myself Luck does promise a reward in the future. He even asks you if you pity the spirits you have to beat over and over again so it was clearly intended for the grind.

She is not. In GDC we have dream sequence with Zetta where he lays out all chess pieces. White got 2 interceptor-type pieces, MC and Crescent, Black got 3 interceptor-type pieces, Clear, Kieran and 1 unknown, but Madame X is a normal chess figure.

Not prepared yet. Luck takes them off your hand and removes the contract and says he will get you the reward as soon as he gets it prepared. I kinda understand it but also hate it, it should have been a Marshadow, i don't understand why it should be an empty reward for now. It is what it is, will see the reward in v14 i suppose. Edit: There IS a reward despite Luck saying there is none (absolutely asinine), it is sent to your room in GDC. I will not spoil what it is for the rest of the people, but it is worth it, sure. Personally i found the Jenner grind to be the easiest method, still takes a ton of hours.

I think it is, Nymiera and others always make compromises for the Greater Good, so to speak, and as a moral question it doesn't have an answer really, but denying old ways and carving a path to the future that will save everyone without torturing selected few seems like a step towards a perfect ending in my eyes.

Not just them, we are also freeing souls of countless Maidens of Reincarnation that came before them.

Actually it's unlikely, albeit possible. The known piece of Arceus is Adrest, and golden light is Variya, who is a mother if nothing else and presumably not on the side of Madame X. There is a possibility she is talking about the mecha-arceus Variya made as the core of the system but it's a massive stretch too for now.

Jenner one in Aquamarine that gives 3 is tremendously faster and easier so i'm doing that one. I'm simply moving date on my PC to keep farming it.

Well i will go and kill the rest of my braincells by grinding 999 black prisms. 1/3 there already. Not exactly hard, just outlandishly tedious. If it will not give me a Marshadow i'm gonna lose it.

I suppose you can interpret it that way but i don't think she can. I believe we were in the Zeight and just talked to her Time stone projection or something, who knows.

She can? I kinda missed that point i guess or was tuned out by this point.

I started Rejuvenation on v7, back when everything ended on Erick iirc, so GDC wasnt even a thing back then, and do you know how many questions were answered in 7 versions and 7 years? Fucking one, what happened to Rune. Which is a question also introduced in v8. What the hell is Eisen? Who is the third dark Interceptor-tier figure on a chessboard besides Clear and Kieran? The hell is Ouroboros? (retconned wall when you go with Melia to Goldenwood Park) What happened in Miera with original team Xen and why? The hell is going on with Soul stone? What souls does it pick up? Where is Anathea? Haven't seen her in like 7 years besides one flashback. Is it Karma standing behind Clear and Kieran? Is it whatever spreads Nihilego and Storm-9? The entire myriad of questions about Team Xen? Hello? and other million questions around. I will give an example of a good, layered, very complex plot that does incredibly well - Xenogears, a 50-60 hour long JRPG with so many threads that converge really well and it's a wild ride. The thing is, it answers some questions along the way, while opening others. Rejuvenation so far drops all the question and leaves hundred answers for the last 5% of the game which is... fucking shit for storytelling, pardon my french. I was hoping to learn SOMETHING in karma files, not to get 2 hour long cinema sidequest.

Not gonna lie, now that i finally replayed the game from the start and finished both routes, i am extremely split on it. Terajuma remake is phenomenal and is now one of the best parts of the game, many things were ironed out and remade better, pacing is also better. Zumi did amazing illustrations for key points, i just wish there were more. That said, story wise i feel like it mostly goes to shit by this point. It is very clear Jean didnt have clear vision for how things are 7 years ago when i had my first Rejuvenation experience, and i think he knows what happens even less by now to be honest. Stuff get retconned, things don't make sense, major threats and mysteries get sidelined, Spacea and Tiempa are casually brushed aside like irrelevant in both routes, and don't get me started on fucking Eisen and the Puppet Dubloon and this entirely thing, and the emplications that every Version of the game is another kind of a reset. It would be perfectly fine if this game was this meta from the start but it just... wasnt, and now it just gets pretty much rewritten so hard anything from first 3/4 of the game is irrelevant at this point. I don't know how to feel about 13.5

So i've already made a topic about it couple years ago, but in the light of some rewrites, additional information and all that, let's try to figure it out again. Also with this topic people won't need to reread previous one in it's entirety. With new information from 13.5 the rabbit hole goes deeper than ever. Overall the topic is intended as more of a collection of information and place of discussion rather than a definitive answer, so i welcome any corrections, extra points and theories. Now that we know for a fact that it's not only about time travel, but parallel worlds even moreso the actual game versions are canon this becomes a hole deeper than ever before. Candidate #1: Maria/Marianette/whatever version of her This is the basic boring theory that went around for as long as Madame X existed, but it got some merits for sure. There are a lot of things that work for it, but some critical things also work against it. Why it can be her: 1) Her appearance. In the Ecclysia Pyramid we broke her mask and saw that she had black hair. It is the Archetype that gives all siblings golden hair colour, but natural hair colour of her mother, Anathea, is black as well, which lines up. 2) Strongest point for this theory comes In 13.5 where we learned that Nastasia entered Team Xen to "find her friend". and Ren was able to speak to said friend although this friend denied everything. This piece of new information heavily implies that Madame X is Maria and Nastasia knows it very well, as we know they were best friends. And implied "finding her friend" is something more akin to bringing old Maria back. 3) Melanie (a version of Melia) also called some "Father" for help and received a proper Yveltal nuke, similar to how Madame X uses Yveltal which implies connection between the two. 4) Madame X calls her "mother" in quotation marks, implying either that she wasnt biological or extreme disdain for her. Considering how Archetype children come to be it's fair to say she could consider Anathea not her real mother. And her mother dying to protect her would line up with Anathea dying in the mansion. 5) Madame X hates people being confined, which could be tied to Marianette and her living in mansion-prison. Why it's unlikely to be her: 1) The whole bit about "Father, i have lost..." makes no sense in the context (it's sitll in 13.5, yes). If you assume mentioned father is Vitus, she has no reason to say that considering the relashionship of any Maria/Marianette version with Vitus was... pretty shit, and there are no other candidates really. 2) However if you think about Anathea as Maria/Marianette's mother, Madame X's extreme animocity towards her mother make no sense whatsoever. In all versions Anathea was shown to be nothing but loving and caring towards Maria/Marianette and was always on her side, and Maria/Marianette answered with love as well. Candidate #2: Erinea Erin as a theory only came to existense in v13, but had some strong arguments going for it. That said, like with #1, there are some extremely critical things that make no sense if Erin would actually be Madame X. Why it can be her: 1) Once again appearance AND the point about mother. See #1. 2) In new 13.5 Darchlight sequence we have seen that Erin shows extreme physical prowess, well outside of what others are capable of. Is this limited to Darchlight cave or not is unknown, but Madame X is similarly extremely strong. 3) Strongest point for Erin being Madame X is, of course, infamousely repeated words of Erin in the flashback and Madame X in the prologue word for word. Which more or less created this theory to begin with. 4) It's more of a general observation but Madame X and Erin has the most similar way of interacting with other people, in mostly cold and smartass manner. Why it's unlikely to be her: 1) Erin hates and despise Vitus, anything "Father" related makes no sense assuming she talks about him. No other candidates so far. 2) I'm fairly sure Erin isn't even aware how Anathea died since by this time she was in her prison with Allen and Alice, so her saying her "mother" died to protect her makes no sense. 3) Madame X spoke about Erin in third person. While it could be a calculated effort to conceal her identity, i don't think she would even bother. Candidate #3: Nora Royer This is the most interesting theory, but it also heavily relies on certain assumptions that were not really mentioned in game or explained yet. Why it can be her: 1) This is the most direct case of Taelia dying to protect her in Where love lies, and "mother" being in quotation marks can be explained by her knowledge about Maiden of Reincarnation. This is also the only theory where "Father, i have lost..." make sense, considering she loved and respected Kenneth. 2) We never directly saw Nora die, only her getting encased in stone. Combined this with 2 times (it's not much, but weird that it happened twice) game mentioned her in important colour can only mean she holds some significance still. 3) This is a very "meta" argument but now that we know that every version is a new attempt to bring the entire thing closer to a "perfect ending" by either Karma or god knows what else, i want to point out that initially "Where love lies" was called "Version -1", in theory predating even beginning of Rejuvenation cycles on a meta timeline. 4) I will quote here a thing about Vitus, "Yveltal is how he spies, how he knows". Yveltal was present there when Taelia and Nora died, what significance did they hold for him at the time? Yveltal carried Soul stone on it in our Blacksteeple encounter, it is possible he took Nora's soul inside of it in WLL. Why it's unlikely to be her: 1) Appearance doesn't really match with what we saw in Ecclysia Pyramid. In WLL little Nora had purple hair like her mother. 2) Nastasia and Nora lived in different times and while its certain Nastasia engaged in some time travel and Sheridan was close, it is unlikely they would become friends. Again this is only assuming "friend" she is talking about is Madame X. Candidate #4: Garufan Inc. member Okay this will be a more disjointed thing since this can only be told as a full story, but this is another can of worms 13.5 opens. In 13.5 Maman was HEAVILY rewritten and she told us about 2 stupidly importan pieces of lore which change a lot of things. From karma files we know that Garufans fought Arceus, 7 billion died and in the aftermath of Arceus destruction they started pretty much dissapearing and deteriorating, and that led to Variya making her project and Garufan civilization dropping below ground. Maman told us that very slightly important thing that there is fully functioning Garufan tribe just chilling somewhere underground and this is where she came from. It's been no more than 10 years since she came above ground based on circumstantial things, so in that short timespan this Garufan tribe couldn't die out, they are just chilling somewhere underground. Second extremely important thing is the "Light plague", an illness that killed Maman and killing Franchesca. Any garufan that is subjected to above ground will immediately develop "Light plague" which inevitably will start killing the host, and i think it's fairly obvious that this is what started killing Garufans after the whole Arceus shebang. Now i'm willing to remind you that a bit under Sheridan we can find a machine that makes a copy of Madame X armor, so with this new piece of knowledge it's a plausible theory that Madame X was a garufan woman, and this armor was constructed to counteract the "Light plague". It's highly unlikely she is Variya, so it doesn't help us much, but this connects some dots for sure. Candidate #5: First Human/Queen of Aevium While before there were heavy implications that Vitus and Nymiera were first humans from legend about Arceus, we also learned that Nymiera and Vitus are pretty much constructs. Correct me if i'm wrong but i also remember hearing in Zeight that a lot of stuff predated Nymiera, which also throws her age off. In the legend pokemon became weaker, and humans received supernatural strenght and agility. As a sign of humiliation first male also gifted first woman his sword, and Madame X seems to favor the sword quite a lot. However in this case any "mother" and "father" mentions are kinda moot, even if you consider Arceus a mother or a father. Another thing that was slightly retconned is that now there was a Queen that ruled all 7 kingdoms of Aevium at some point. Which i'm gonna throw out as a possibility here. Some interesting points i'm not sure where to leave: Madame X warned Kanon about Theolia monthes before the thing happened. This still confuses me. Madame X hates to see people confined. Madame X said to Melanie "no more hiding behind that beast" about Yveltal which can be just a random remark but seemed quite... rude i suppose to kind of eyes of Vitus. This is not a definitive statement, it's an opener, so feel free to add, discuss and present other theories. Most incredibly flaky ones like Madame X being Nastasia, Amber, or Anathea are extremely unlikely so i didn't even bother. I will also try to add important points if they arise.

Yes, that's something that happens during the story. A lot of the things changed and were rewritten.

This was already reported in bugs and i did it once more, but will do here just in case as well. After finishing the ship section at the wreck site Adrienn gives you part of the reward and tells you second half is at the help center. However when you come back to the help center lady she says you already finished everything. Quest on the board is also kept in a state "you already answered it" instead of "you already completed it" and this blocks the completion of "Reborn Again" quest. While waiting for a global fix for this, is it possible to submit my save file to manually get it fixed?

It's not picking, all answers must be typed in. If you do get all of them right you gain a Puppetmaster Dubloon which leads to... some interesting stuff down the line.

That was a Flabebe if i remember right.

There are actually several extremely important things that changed and you only see that if you replay the game, i will post all the stuff in couple days when i finish with this playthrough.

Didnt play Karma files in Paragon yet so i feel like i'm missing a lot of context here, i will come back to this once i do it as well.

No, thats her.

I don't understand the question. There was one of the Melia's, we destroyed the world to nothing, that Melia lived in this nothing for 6 years (M2), then entity interfered and reset the world and this Melia (M2) took over the one where we continue Renegade route. There is literally no way to explain it any more, that's breaking it down to the most basic things.