Ironbound

Not bad indeed, but since I have nothing else to say than what Zumi already has, all I can advise is to experiment more with design and shading, and maybe be a little softer with the lines, and of course resize the pics. All the best, and keep up the good work!

Fair point; the ultimate objective of Pokémon has always been on battling, which, as I pointed out, needn't necessarily be considered immoral unless it is forced, but yes, considering that a Collector class of trainers exist, I do concur with you. My example was not aimed at equating Pokémon with Undertale as a whole, but merely as an illustration to say that even videogames can have us feel more towards the characters in them. I will not dispute your opinion, since in fact I myself also agree that Pokémon has always been built around 'Gotta catch 'em all', especially if you take the game canon aside from the anime canon (which I too stopped watching years ago) However, the games have been developing with the generations in terms of the premise of Pokémon. In truth, the games are still built around becoming the champion and stopping an evil team, but each generation has a more developed role for our companions. The introduction of Contests and Pokeathlon encourages different aspects of companionship with Pokemon other than battle tournaments, and the addition of Pokémon Amie reveals a more cuddly aspect of said companionship. One can cogently say that the role of the in-game trainer with his Pokémon has been expanding, since some generation plot points (such as BW's) even directly address the issues of simply collecting pokemon. If we include spin-off game canon, it isn't even necessary to partner a Pokémon in a Pokeball, as shown in the Ranger series. Although the player can choose to keep viewing Pokémon as nothing more than a battle/collection game, it remains his choice; Pokémon itself has been evolving to represent more of a relation, like what it tries to spoon-feed us in the anime.

I'm not saying that one ought to be allowed to eat whatever they want. I'm a vegetarian myself (on spiritual and philosophical grounds as well as because I am an animal rights chappie) and I don't say that the government is wrong in barring people from eating all kinds of animals and birds, especially endangered ones. But I do say that not allowing people to eat something on religious grounds is against the spirit of a country that calls itself secular, and that's not being anarchist. Like I said, I'm not going to explain all the nonsensical stuff within my country's framework because I don't want to ruin a nice sunny afternoon, so we'll let it slide. Anyways, get home and sleep soundly. I'm still waiting for you to verbally wreck me on the art thread.

It can be said in general that a movie of a book is seldom as good as the book, let alone better than it. By necessity a movie has to condense all the story into a given time slot, so, unlike a play, it cannot be a complete adaptation. Then again, a book is better in my view because it makes us imagine and cultivate our own mental picture of the story. Having another person's interpretation of it shown to us as a movie, however creative or enjoyable, is rather mentally sterile, for our mind no longer has to picture the characters or the environs; it is simply given to us to digest, besides also being compromised as stated.

One can again say that competitive breeding, if refined properly, is no more an evil than real-life breeding for traits. And breeding again need not be for battles alone, although now I am coming to the point of why I think competitive battling is not evil and that breeding for it is no worse that breeding for horse races. Certainly I would agree that taking a Pokémon unwilling from the wild is not correct, however, domestication is also a thing. I suppose one can ethically partner with a wild Pokemon, if both parties are willing. Also, I don't buy the theory that a Pokémon is bound to its Pokeballs unless released, or that it has to obey its trainer. There are instances of Pokémon breaking their Pokeballs, or fleeing, or simply refusing to obey their trainer, like Ash's Charizard did (thoush Ash is ass anyway, I wouldn't blame Charizard) so that mayn't be true entirely. Besides, catch rates are a thing, and Pokémon can refuse capture and escape, or downright attack anyone who approaches with an intent to capture them. The wild Salalmence in one episode I can't recall is a good example. And even Master Balls can fail, if it is destroyed or even consumed, like that one legendary Whiscash did. They're not helpless victims, and they can hit back very hard against humans if they didn't want to partner with them. Which leads us to the premise that they want to partner with their humans and can at least tolerate their existence if not like or love them. Even a harsh trainer like Paul had a partnership with his Pokémon, even though they were of similar mind - perform and be rewarded, fail and be punished. It was only his Chimchar that couldn't take that attitude, so one can say that it depends from Mon to Mon. In fact, mons can be as evil or benevolent as people, and this need not correlate with the attitude of the trainer. Certainly they influence each other's mentality, but it is entirely possible for an evil Mon to exist alongside a not-evil person, like that one Malamar. Besides, Hunter J and her Salamence and Drapion is a perfect example of a ruthlessly amoral partnership between people and Pokémon. I suggest the Pokémon partnership to be like Man and Elephant, if not Man and Dog; a successful and mutually beneficial partnership that has existed for centuries. We are not discussing Pokémon who exist as companions or as aides in man's work (it is said that mons like Conkeldurr and Machamp help people with work as well, so it can be assumed that other Pokémon also help willingly with transportation, medical care or whatever). About battling; It is proven also that most Pokémon, even the plant-like ones, are as sentient as a human being, so equating them to cock fights may not be the best comparison. Rather, as Masquerain said, it can be equated to a wrestling or other athletic Combat tournament between humans, with the Pokémon themselves fully aware of their actions and even enjoying it themselves. I agree, forcing a Pokémon to fight is bad, but I think any Pokémon, even a Cherubi, can refuse to fight if it doesn't want to, as was demonstrated. Do your average battles between normal trainers is not an evil act, it is as much a sport as any martial art and is normal in the Pokéworld society, as evidenced. So while J's partnership with her equally reprehensible Salamence is evil, competitive battling is not necessarily so.

Well said, Lugruf. I agree that fighting leads to breeding and all other unethical practices, but the reverse isn't always true. Breeding g itself may not be only for fighting; look at Brock in the anime, who wanted to be a Pokémon Breeder (Granted, he was also a gym leader, but if I recall aright it was because he was filling in for a brother or something) only to help Pokémon lead a healthier life. Also, yes, I agree entirely with your statements about Pokémon ultimately being a videogame, and therefore they don't have any soul so we can do what we please to obtain what is merely a favourable statistical output. But I had based it on the assumption of granting Pokémon recognition. I'm not talking about Showdown here, since it isn't canon, being only a simulator or a 'lab'. Those teams are not sentient, so we leave them out. Games are games, yes, but some like Undertale make a good point about the supposed souls of what we take to be nothing more than pixels over whom we have a godly power. Assuming we take Pokémon in a similar vein, we can agree that breeding g is unethical, even comparable to the atrocities performed by the 'mad scientists' to real world animals or even people, when we look back at history. We do have to recognise that this is rather a hypocritical topic (most of us have to admit that even if breeding is unethical, it is a thing, and almost everyone does it. The fact that GF has such a mechanic is itself proof of its unalterable truth) so we can write it off as a necessary evil. And Hushie, we can agree that Natures do boost a statistical advantage in the wild, so a Timid Gyarados may be faster at fleeing and less adept at hunting than the ideal Adamant one. Natural Selection, you may say. In fact, since we know that even Lv100 Magikarp can occur in the wild, perhaps Timid Magikarp simply doesn't even have a great chance to evolve into a Gyarados, being more suited to being a feesh. Likewise, a Timid Gyarados, if found to exist, can be concluded to have a poorer chance of survival. It all again boils down to the arbitrariness of Nature, I suppose. Then again, the 'greater good' of doing research to improve wild genetic strains is questionable. Scientists today do fiddle around with experiments on critically endangered animals to try and improve their chances of survival in the wild; doing something like that with rare Pokémon might be justified, even if it causes some short term friction. However, the larger question of playing God and messing with the natural order of weak and strong things existing in nature arises. Like Cepheus said earlier, if everything is OP, the wild would be a grimmer, unnatural place, I suppose. Moving on, it's about time to discuss what Lugruf stated: ethics of Battling.

The plot of gen6 was a horrible mish-mash. The only logical conclusion we can arrive at is that Mr.FlareBlitz-face was simply genocidal, depressed and clinically insane in about ten different ways. And that Diantha, being a ditz, and Sycamore, being too enamoured by the player's mum, both completely ignored the signs of madness so clearly screaming 'He's the bad guy' that Lysander was displaying in all his earlier interactions.

I'm repeating my counter argument, but necessarily so because this is a new thread: Considering the situation involves assuming Pokemon to be real, IVs and EVs must also be real. What if a Mon with poor IVs is weaker or crippled? A poor speed IV Mon is born lame, for instance, and one with bad defense might be frail or weak-boned, etc. Similarly a wrong nature might be in contradiction to their very existence and might be a bad thing for them in the wild: imagine a Gentle nature Gyarados, or a Relaxed nature Jolteon. These natures are more like a character flaw, since a Gentle Gyarados cannot be the predator it is naturally designed to be, and a lazy Jolteon can't run fast so it won't be able to survive long anyway. It is harsh, but life is also harsh. Are there not many crippled animals born every day? Are not the weak killed by the strong? Is it not a law of nature? In fact, it is nature's way of showing mercy to the weak: by killing them instantly, they are put out of their miserable existence. Even real life animals bred for their purpose are put down ethically to spare them pain: Horses and dogs, if they are incurably crippled or diseased, are euthanized humanely too. So if we, or the 'evil' organization, is doing research to try and make pokeom genetics stronger, they are doing a good thing, because they want to reduce this cruel randomness that happens due to weak genes. If, in that process, some Pokémon get hurt, it's just a necessary evil, all for a greater good. And if we dispose of Pokémon with bad IVs or a bad nature, we are doing them a favour also by sparing them a crippled life. I could also say that wanting a Pokémon of an opposite nature just for the sake of domestication is not exactly good either...like deliberately dulling the instincts of a Bengal Tiger simply because you want to keep a big cat as a pet, when it belongs in the wild. Besides, a Mon with perfect IVs or the correct instinctive nature is not a killer by itself. No, it will simply be healthier in mind and body, and it will still love and obey its trainer. A Modest or Timid Jolteon with perfect IVs and training would probably still be a better pet if you domesticate it, and would also do well in the wild. And as for the hypocrisy of BW Plasma, I concur. Their premise was Pokémon liberation... But their ends seemed to justify their means, since many of their underlings were using Pokémon themselves to poorly conceal a robbery of other people's Pokémon, regardless of their wishes. N, however, is a beautiful character, naive and all the more terrifyingly truthful due to the innocence of his ideals. He used Pokémon, yes, but only because the game mechanics didn't allow for a trainer to do anything with Pokemon aside from capturing them. Also, N always released all his Pokémon immediately after the battle: he only used teams made-up of natural Pokémon that are found in nearby routes each time. The only exceptions are his Darmanitan and Zoroark, which adopted him as a child when he was left alone in the forest. Besides, he also released them afterwards, before taking off with Reshiram/Zekrom, and Darmanitan and Zoroark both accepted their freedom. This makes Ghetsis even more heinous, but that discussion is for later. Let us continue talking about the current topic of Breeding eugenics, then we shall proceed to Battling ethics and other, interesting topics. Oh my, I'm starting to like this thread's future prospects.

I'm fairly sure this is the right place for this kind of thread. All right, so yesterday I had an interesting discussion regarding the right and wrong, and everything in between, of the Pokéworld, in the Sun and Moon thread. Seeing the thing getting more and more detailed, I decided that this needed a thread of its own for open discussion and opinions. The idea of this thread is that any contributor can state or ask a question about any aspect of morality within the Pokémon canon, and that we can all come to share our op pinions about it and have a nice little chat. For instance, I'll start now with the same topic which spiralled out of the Sun and Moon thread: The ethics of breeding and of Pokémon eugenics. Here is the fact of the matter: Those of us who breed for competitive purposes undoubtedly know of IVs and Natures and of EV training, and of their tremendous importance. To that extent, we seek to obtain the statistical best out of a Pokémon. The premise is that we breed that Pokémon repeatedly until we obtain an offspring with those perfect IVs and nature. Assuming we acknowledge the Pokémon as an entity, we are accused of deliberately prostituting it, often to a gelatinous blob, and forcing it to breed and breed again, after which it is simply discarded like a used- well, discarded. Then, very often, all those poor lv.1 babies are either ruthlessly dumped into the wild, or traded off into the abyss known as Wonder Trade. Those of them who show promise are subjected to the same rigours again and again, and the cylce continues until we obtain what we term a 'pertect' being. This entails treating all these Pokémon in a most heinous, callous manner. Or, if we don't even consider them as an emotive being (being, after all, just a tool or a piece of random statistical pixels) we are guilty of even more monstrous apathy. The whole process is inhuman and racist. (What? Of course I wasn't involved in making Mewtwo or anything. What gave you that notion?) I speculated that we might well see an antagonistic organization dedicated to Pokémon genetic research, who run the daycare as a breeding factory and who aim at ultimately unlocking the absolute potential in any Pokémon. The 'casual player' faction is against this, favouring the ethical raising of Pokémon, disregarding their flaws and genetic weaknesses and behaving like a Pokémon Rights activist lobby. Now the discussion opens: what is the true morality here and in what way, and what would YOUR opinions be? REMEMBER: this is an open discussion. Everyone's opinion may differ, no one is right or superior, and I don't want to see a flame war. Please.

Regice is a cool Mon. Meanwhile I get Bronzong. I guess I'm now a steel type, but all three times I tried I ended up with Psychic types.

How absurd. Whatever gave you that notion? *hastily throws away revolver and coat* And yeah, cows are more or less a divine embodiment of sorts, and some State Governments are so fanatic about them that beef is outlawed and cow slaughter deemed a crime in their territories. When you realise the even McDonald's, which is huge here, features no beef in its menus, you'll be more more aware of the situation. I call it absolute hypocrisy, to be frank. These pseudo-intellectuals are nothing more than street hoodlums out for political gain and strong-arming. The scriptures that they cite certainly state that the cow is holy, but so is any life form. Needless killing is of course discouraged, as every faith would. If you're going to consume flesh, by all means do so, as it is after all a law of nature, and if you want to avoid beef but pig out on mutton or poultry, that is also fine, but it's not within the jurisdiction of a so called secular and democratic government or its 'representatives' to decree what can and cannot be eaten by others. This isn't a theocracy. Then again, plenty of things are more or less dystopian around here, so we'll let it slide. And boy, you're not getting a Riolu just yet. Carry on with the run, and let me know when you face Blake, if you haven't already. Edit: get more sleep!

The power of the mind is terrifying and exhilarating at the same time. It's all in your head, after all... Have you considered Musharna? It's quite fat, and can do some Calm Mind shwnanginans easily, especially with Trick Room. Also, I'm sure you'll be obtaining a Chandelure eventually! All the best to you in your run. I look forward to your next log; this is quite the entertainment indeed.

Here, funny you'd use that particular shortening of Dhanush in conjunction with the words 'numbers' and 'prosper' Dhanush means Bow, yes, but Dhan means money or wealth. So we've all been calling him 'money' for years, and I didn't say anything because it was funnier, but now's the time to reveal this wealth of information. What say, Mr.Money/Bow?

Luna is one of those leaders who is easy to beat if you have the right matchup, as she is more heavily reliant on a single build. As long as you have a good Fairy type with above average speed and power, like Gardevoir, most of her team should be easily defeated. The two things that can tank a Moonblast, being g Bisharp and Tyranitar, are both x4 weak to Fighting, so a good fighting type pair-up is even easier. All the best for the upcoming battles... And yes, most Electric types do not learn anything stronger than discharge by level up. The main exceptions are Anoharos, Pikachu lime and Heliolisk line, which learn Thunder. Helioptile also learns Thinderbolt and Volt Switch by level-up (Helioptile, mind you, NOT Heliolisk, which evolves by a Sun Stone and hence learns no moves...like that Arcananine) and Heliolisk is a fast, reasonably strong Electric type with good coverage like Grass Knot, Dark Pulse and Surf, so it might be worth your while to raise one.

Welcome back to Reborn. I'm sure you'll enjoy your now permanent stay, since we all know Reborn has Shadow Tag and those who fall in cannot escape without eventually returning.

Oh, that's for sure. They will not have a feature like trainer customization restricted only to Kalos; it wasn't done in ORAS to 'preserve the original feel' more. I too look forward to having a Titanic Time God follow me again and accept poffins/cupcakes from my hand. I also appreciate the depth of your sentiment, since you seem to have created an account just to make this one post. Why not introduce yourself in the Grand Hall, friend? And as for game mechanics, I sincerely hope they won't go farther than Mega evolution. To be frank, some old favorites are just crying for a Mega: Roserade, YanMEGA, Magnezone, and so on. Perhaps they will finally introduce a 'free-for-all' mode of battling, which involves four people on four sides, all battling the other three, with the last man standing declared the winner. Currently we only have multibattles, with two on a side, that makes free do all's limited due to the way certain moves don't target the 'ally' next to you. In a free-for-all mode, moves like Hyper Voice could hit everyone, while Stealth Rock and similar hazards would target a single 'corner' at a time. It's be fun, I'm sure!

I prefer BW plot-wise to BW2. As a person of my acquaintance put it so succinctly: BW Plasma: "Hi! We're PokéPETA! Consider your Pokémon's freedom!" BW2 Plasma: "F*** it, we're terrorists now. Gimme." As for which games had the most impact on the series, it'd have to be DPPt. The physical/special split, the move variations, the new evolution lines to old favourites, definitely grandest scale of legendaries (friggin' Time and Space and Emotion amd Nightmares and GOD?) As well as the most fun OU tier of all time (in my opinion)...there's a lot going for it. But each generation has been bringing us fresh game mechanics, so here's to hoping Gen 7 brings us something innovative and fun.

Yes, it's nice to take in all these views. Personally, I liked good ol' Sinnoh E4 myself. Aaron was excellent as a Bug type user, Bertha was kinda meh, Flint was another of those good characters that actually does something in the game before just randomly appearing as an E4, and Lucien pulled it off well, despite Will already existing as a Psychic user. I also liked the fact that the entire E4 in Sinnoh had at least one exception to their typing, save for Lucien, who had a pure mono Psychic team; Aaron has Drapion, Bertha had Ttar, I think, and Flint in DP actually had a mixed team, with Lopunny, Steelix and Drifblim. Of course, Cynthia was the best champion. Extremely interactive, diverse team, and a credible challenge with that monstrously levelled Garchomp. So, my expectation of Gen7 E4 is something similar. I'd like a bunch of trainers who don't necessarily use mons of the same TYPE, as long as they keep a set THEME. For instance, we can have a weather based E4, in this order: Hail user with some serious threats like Mamoswine and Weavile, along with a bunch of Snow Cloak abusers. Sun based user with Fire and Grass types, featuring Drought users and Chlorophyll abusers. Rock/Ground user, with a Sand team that uses things like Gliscor, Gastrodon and Cradily to avoid their shared weaknesses, and a Sand Rush Driller or something. Rain user with Water and Steel types that benefit from having their Fire weakness nullified. Oh yeah, Swift Swim + Drizzle and Ferrothorn! All of them should also use Megas in the first run itself; I can think of Mega Abomasnow, CharizardY, Tyranitar and Gyarados as their respective aces. And finally, a champion who uses a diverse, competitively viable team with a borked Mega like a Mawile, Blaziken or heck, Salamence. Diantha was on the right track, but too weak and not with a competitive team of six. There should be a real challenge again. Also, it's a good idea to have the gym leaders and E4 actually be involved in law and order within the region, kinda like BW's gym leaders who assist the player in hunting down team Plasma, and actually come around to fighting the Seven Sages at the end.

Welcome to Reborn, Hycrox. I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here, since you already seem to be familiar with the forums. Do remember to follow the community rules, and drop in for a few chats on the server.

The only way to beat that abomination reliably would be to have two layers of tspikes up and then have it badly poisoned as it switches in. You can't beat it otherwise if it is immune to any status moves and can constantly change type to be immune to any attack as well, and can also just keep recovering of anything we might try to do to it. Eventually the Toxic Poison will catch up... If we stay alive that long to stall it out.

Tbh I think E16 ought to deliver more pseudo-legends. It's about time we got moar powah. Especially since some of them aren't good(ra) enough to be held off any longer.

All right, it's actually somewhat disconcerting to see my real name used, and used correctly. Dhan?

All this stuff is much more broken than my humble Red Hula Hoop. But yes, that was the guiding principle behind my theory, since I remember Cyrus's lecture about Pokeballs being a limiter to a mom's powers. In any case, if you want to preserve the current rules of Mega evolution or Primal Reversion (which makes more sense IMO) the I think adding +30 to each offensive stat and +20 to each defensive stat is a decent spread that still retains a certain evenness: 120/150/140/150/140/120 The idea of not having a stone or Orb is still better, I think. Let us assume the Red Hula Hoop theory continues, and Arceus can be one of any four given types at any one time. Otherwise, Judgment and all other calculations remain the same, and his new Ability will just be Protean with a different name. Omnitype, for instance, or Origin Aura if you want to be fancy. It would also apply a 20% boost to any move Arceus uses that corresponds to the type he currently is, just like a Plate would (technically the Red Hula Hoop acts like four Plates and can't be Knocked Off) thereby also ensuring the Judgment remains STAB + Plate Boosted. I don't quite agree with changing Judgment or needing to have a replacement move taught to Arceus, as that implies that he needs a higher power to awaken his potential. You can't teach God tricks. Rather, we can justify my revised idea with lore: Arceus created the world, and created the Creation Trio and the Lake Trio to keep it in balance. (Also created Mew I guess to create all the other stuff eventually). Then he took a nap for eternity in his special golden dimension. The Red Chains are a perverted item created from the living flesh of the Lake Trio. It has the power to throw spirit and creation out of whack. Cyrus uses it as usual to control the Creation God(s), is thwarted, yadda yadda yadda, but then combines them both with a Plate that he found and forcibly reawakens Arceus, incurring its wrath. It's upto the player to convince Arceus that all is fine, really, and that no Gods have been enslaved or anything. The player wins the battle, Arceus is convinced of your dedication and love for the world and whatnot, and decides to descend as an incarnation of his Ultimate Self and walk with you. You can capture Arceus when he sends a less-godly (aka his normal form) avatar to Earth, and because he is God he can exist as your companion and also exist as God in the Golden Dimension again. You now have the Red Hula Hoops, Cynthia tells you some cock-and-bull lore about it and explains how to use it, and the plot ends happily. What say? Also this is my 420th post. Help.

Many things make me happy: A flower blooming, rain on the leaves, a happy dog, morning sun, accomplishing a goal, painting, helping someone... I feel happiest when my family is happy. I therefore base most of my activity around achieving that. I'll ask now, what makes you unhappy?

Exactly my point. It's the old what-if-yiu-could-say-yes-to-that-Rocket-grunt-and-join-an-evil-team conundrum. Anyway, I'll start a thread about this line of thought. Meanwhile, let's theorymon about sun and Moon more. What do you think the E4 will be like? I hope they are more difficult than dumb old Kalos's.