Ironbound

This.

The sprite looks good! Perhaps the edges and lining can be a little sharper but that's just me nitpicking. As for the idea of a mega Nidoking, it wouldn't be bad. The SATs you detailed should be fine IMO, without making it broken. The speed boost is just right, though I expect the design to indicate heavier bulk, but maybe Mega Nidoqueen can be the fat one. The thing is, 125 base SpAtk with Sheer Force is hella strong, basically it is like giving it a life Orb. Granted, it isn't as strong or fast as say LO Lando-I, but it is still pretty ridiculously powerful, especially considering its insane coverage. It's be hitting harder than LO Kyu-B but with a ton of moves to abuse: Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Sludge Wave, Earth Power, Focus Blast, even a mixed set with Poison Jab, Superpower and extremely useful priority in Sucker Punch. I'd think it's kinda borked if you are aiming it to be used in OU. Maybe reduce its power a little bit in favour of more physical defense, as its stature implies. Or maybe change its ability to something other than Sheer Force. Intimidate, Mold Breaker and Tough Claws come to mind. Tough Claws with more physical bulk would be OK, since it can't boost its speed and it has fewer moves that can be abused (mainly Poison Jab and Superpower, I think.)

TIL that one cannot move one's right arm in a circle and one's left leg in a square in opposite directions at the same time. You'll end up either moving both in a circle or in a square.

More and more points are being raised, I see. It makes me glad to see the thread used well. As regards Pokéballs as a tool of enslavement, I already expressed my view that it needn't necessarily be that way, but I concede that that would well be what at least a significant number of people would see the relation as. There are many callous, vile or stupid trainers who don't understand their Pokémon or disregard their comfort, be it by harsh treatment or even by overprotective pampering or what have you. As for the Pokémon-eating-poke-food, we know that they have a mostly different constituition from ours and as such maybe can't eat most of the things humans can, although maybe cupcakes, the odd sandwich and berry-products like poffins are edible. The fact that there exists a staple diet for them, just like many of us have a staple foodgrain, is not inherently a fact of slavery. In fact, many of the trainers in the anime specifically treat Pokémon as partners and friends, not as a lesser being, at least from what I remember from that thing. As for why they eat off the ground- most of them are animal-shaped, even if they are more advanced and as sentient as a human. Most of them also don't fit on a small camping folding table, or fit in a dining room, or simply are unable to eat that way. Since most of them also don't have a table, plate, knife and fork in the wild, they don't mind eating from a bowl. The larger, bipedal or humanoid ones usually don't do this, because they can and are indeed given a place at man's side: look at Lucario, Mr.Mime, and anything that has fingers and arms and can sit at a table. They usually do when the situation allows. Also, those Pokémon that can speak the human language telepathically are still treated the same way by mostl people as far as I can remember. Then again the anime is for kids, and the games are also for kids really, so if we base our judgment off of what people in our world are like, then the average Joe would probably even tell a telepathic Pokémon to go **** itself if they don't simply enslave it for their own gain first. This is mostly based on one's perspective. Just saying, BTW, that assuming that a slakoth or an oddish doesn't want to battle is again not necessarily true. My Oddish wants to bathe in figurative blood, and my Charizard wants to dress up and perform in Contests. Whom am I to deny their pleasure if they concede to partner with me in a Pokeball and then participate with me in whatever interests them? The points about Meowth and other talking Pokémon are undeniably interesting to note. What do you think? Well, this thread has had a good run. In the interests of prudence, this discussion has reached a conclusion. Fresh discussions are always welcomed, but for now this thread can recede. I have no further points to discuss; others are always welcome if they so choose. The thread is dormant. In future, unless it dies ultimately, more can be posted here.

And you can do a thing called using Google to find out what a Pokémon Nature and EVs and IVs do. It's literally typing two words at a time into the search bar of your browser and reading g a couple of pages on Bulbapedia. Please don't ask us things which the internet can tell you. Not that we hesitate to help you, but we need to be cut some slack as well.

I haven't actually contributed here yet. Let me start off with a family watchword: "Moderation in everything, including in moderation" It's more or less ingrained into my subconscious. I haven't yet found a life situation wherein this policy doesn't hold wise.

We can assume that Pokeballs are inserted into a computer that can restore the data-dorm Pokémon inside to its full state. The 'few glows' you state are a cosmetic indicator of this restoration, which we see embodied in the physcial Pokémon as a healing of its injury/restoration of its power and energy. Since we assume the Law if Conservation of Energy to hold good, Pokémon in their energy/data state can be assumed to be fed and/or otherwise nourished when healed at a Pokémon Centre. However, this satiation is unconscious and therefore not enjoyabke or experiential. That's why a Pokémon outside of its Pokeball likes to eat things, because the nourishment from Centre healing doesn't satisfy its taste buds. This is also why wild Pokemon eat berries and plants or other Pokémon like any animal, or photosynthesize if they are plant like (see the PMD series.) They can't have this healing done for them normally so they must sustain themselves in nature like any life form. This raises three new questions: 1. What about healing while the player is sleeping in a bed? Is it assumable that Pokémon all instinctively use Rest or something and heal themselves? 2. What about those Pokémon who aren't exactly organic or who don't possess orifices. Magnezone, Starmie, Porygon-Z, and so on. They don't eat normally, but they are sentient beings that require nourishment. Is Pokeball healing their only good? How do they sustain themselves in the wild? 3. How do Pokémon Heal in the wild? Do they all again instinctively use Rest? Is PP a regenerative concept? Or do Pokémon simply reassimilate over time (again as in the Mystery Dungeon Series), and if so why don't they heal when they are within a Pokeball? I have my theory, but I'd open this topic also for discussion. The Pokeball ethics topic is still open to anyone with a different opinion, or to any comments in general too.

Excellent. We have our new topic of discussion, the ethics of Pokeballs. Before any topic can be initiated, it is necessary to define the premise. What is a Pokeball? We understand that Pokémon can be converted into an energy/plasma state and encapsulated in a device, be it a Pokeball or a PC. We do not know, having never been told, what happens to the Pokémon inside these devices. This creates three possible theories: 1. A Pokémon is merely physically reduced in size inside a Pokeball, effectively just sitting in a cage but fully aware of its surroundings. This is shown in a few situations, as the Pokémon are implied to be aware of external stimuli and their trainers' responses. For instance, in Gen5, when both Tornadus and Thundurus need to be brought to the Abundant Shrine to summon Landorus, it is stated that the two are 'trembling in their Pokeballs'. 2. The Pokémon is transformed into data or energy and is insentient inside the device. The 'corrupted Pokeballs' are an example of this. Whether the Pokémon inside is aware of this corruption is questionable, but the Ralts event in Reborn supports that the Pokémon can resist and is therefore aware of the corruption of the device software. 3. The most optimistic theory is the 'Ideal Biome' theory, which supports that Pokémon are converted into energy/data, yes, but still retain a sentient physical form within the Pokeball, which simulates its ideal natural environment in a vast virtual field. So a stored Magnezone would be relaxing comfortably in a world of steel and electric power, which can feed it and support its constituition. Likewise, a stored Gyarados would be in a virtual sea, with simulated environs that sustain it in semi-suspended animation. Call it a combination of the above two premises. However, Pokémon still get hungry, apparently, and can still suffer from a debilitating condition when stored, so there is still that fact. Based on this, I'd like to initiate this topic. Fire away!

I'll fated doll can be bought in Seventh Street aka the drug hole. Not the circus I suggest you try out a Bronzong. It is immune to all the Poison nonsense, can hit the thing with strong enough Psychic attacks and is a better user of Trick Room overall. It also learns explosion BTW. Bisharp can also work because it is simply that strong.

Magnezone is a God, yes, but Magneton also stops Pulse Swalot in its tracks. If you have any steel type at all, that works too, since Pulse Swalot can't touch them for anything if I remember aright. If you lack even a magnemite now, there's no way to go back to shade's place and catch one until you complete ep15, sadly. The best available option for you might be Bronzong or Bisharp.

See? It's a universal truth. PRAISE THE MAGNET LORD!

Tbh I corrected it to Offense from HO earlier itself, because cursory glance are evil and I know that's a fault of mine. I was merely quoting the standard Lando-T spread, not implying that you ought to use it to take on Mega Mane when you have a textbook check to it in Latias, as you say. I generally don't compromise Latias's speed unless I'm using Mega Latias, but to each their own. And perhaps it is feasible to retain Bisharp as a SD user. Just my two cents' worth.

Oh yeah...sorry, cursory glance are horrible. Well...I have nothing to say. That is so ridiculous that there's nothing to be done.

Yes, although Gen6 made it so that both the mother and the father can pass on Egg Moves, you obviously need a female Infernape to get a Chimchar with the egg moves. Remember that TM moves can't be passed on any longer. So Chimchar can learn Thunder Punch by breeding, but it can't learn, say, Grass Knot or Overheat that way. You'll have to teach it the TM, if and when available. If you want to teach mons TM moves via Breeding, you'll have to go back to ep12 or older.

Blasphemy! Magnezone is the one true GOD!

Yes, Magnezone is easily the best electric type available in the game at the moment, and at least ten times more useful that Emolga tbh. You'll not find it easy to level up Magneton into Magnezone yet, though, but Magneton itself is quite good. Crobat and Scolipede are both viable Poison types; you'd have to breed Brave Bird onto Crobat, however. They both also give you a nice x4 Fighting resist. A good water type would also not be bad. You can consider Seismitoad or something which is bulky

Good to know that this thread is developing so nicely. It's a fine thing to discuss these things, and I'm glad, as stated, that we are talking about these things in the spirit of a true discussion: civilly. As for Pokeballs being tools of enslavement- well, one can view them as such, or one can also view them as a device of convenience. It has been shown that a Pokémon can always run away or break its Pokeball, even, if it doesn't want to stay, so I'd rather not think that they are all one huge nexus of slavery. As for the Arceus movie (tbh one of the worst movies ofball time, in my very frank opinion) it is riddled with so many plot holes and failed logical points that one could fill Snorlax's Belly with them. (It's GOD, lol, how can any of that happen to GOD?) Anyways, the harness thingies might've been tools of subjugation, yes. But that was then, in a primitive age, when man did not yet himself evolve fully as a society. Compare it to our own history 500 or more years ago, when we enslaved each other! We didn't treat each other as equals, much less partner with them. This can be equated to the Pokémon relation as well: people did enslave them, but that changed over time to the present era.

Quite a nice standard Offense you seem to have there, but I'd have a couple of suggestions. Yes, like stated above, LO is definitely needed on Breloom for the necessary power. Clefable usually runs Flamethrower or even Ice Beam over TWave on teams like this which have fast Pokémon that don't really need speed control, but the choice is yours if you don't have problems with steels or ground types. I would also say NOT to put KnocknOff on Lando-T. You have a somewhat different spread for defensive Lando-T, most usually just run 240 def and 8 SpDef; That 8 SpDef is needed to avoid being KO'd NY Mega Mane's HP Ice from Full Health. Also, Lando-T needs EQ and Stone Edge, and having U-turn as the third move on an SR set is definitely better than the subpar Knock Off, especially since you have a Bisharp for aforesaid Knock Off and you don't want to weaken it's power. I really also can't understand your Latias spread. The standard max speed Timid with 184 SpAtk and 72 HP with Life Orb is optimal IMO for offensive builds like this. The speed tier is crucial, and this can't be understated. Lefties also makes Latias lose LOTS of power, don't worry about LO recoil, as it's job is only to check Keldeo and Defog things away. You can run Roost over Healing Wish if you want, but even that is not necessary if you play it well. I can't imagine what being slower than Charizard accomplishes; that bulk will not help you much IMO. If you want more power, you can run Black Glasses Bisharp. IIRC the AV set runs 96 Speed and 192 HP, with Max attack, but this is flexible.

Finally, I was drea- I mean, waiting to receive your criticism on this one. Don't bother about scaring people off; your banner is Halloween, what do they expect? And yes, I agree with you about the tail. I'll lift it and change the angle when I digitise it, although that makes it look fatter, Giratina is after all pretty fat. As for the wings...eh idk, really. I didn't put any texture or solidity to the wings, you're right, because- Giratina's wings don't have any texture or solidity. Just look at his actual sprites, both the 2D and the XY 3D ones. The wings DO look like they're made of irregularly shaped but perfectly flat paper. I guess it's because they're meant to be made of a shadowy plasma-like substance whi h has no depth. But yeah, point noted, I'll add some shading when I digitise the thing. Same things with the legs, really. I followed the anime illustration for their shape, even though the thighs are suspended, as you say. (Don't imagine Giratina walking. It's blasphemy! he can FLY and Shadow-Force/Teleport, why would you wanna bother about him walking!) But yeah, thanks very much for the feedback. I'll work on it more atvthe thime of completion.

Ahh, Now that's an interesting topic. Pokémon as food, and Pokémon food chains! We have our new topic, people! Now, the wild is always the wild. I realise that the Pokedex is written by kids and so shouldn't be very accurate, but there are several entries that talk of Pokémon being eaten by other Pokémon, or even by people. For instance, Starly do attack wurmple, and Hydreigon eats everything that moves. Slowbro is a Fisher which eats aquatic Pokémon, presumably, and many Grass types are edible: Cherubi's smaller head is packed with nutrients, apparently, and if course everyone knows of Tropius and its banana-chin. We now approach the topic of eating a Pokémon or a part of it. Of course, Pokémon can be agreed to be more sentient than animals like the average fish or chicken, in fact as sentient as a human, so going and eating your Torchic mayn't be very...ethical. The Sinnoh myths as spoken of in the Canalave library even straight up talk about how Pokémon were butchered once and how it came to be repented later, though the veracity of a myth is always questionable. However, some Pokeproducts can be consumed safely and harmlessly, like Tropius's fruit, Chansey's eggs, or Miltank's MooMoo Milk. Slowpoke tails are also edible, as we all know, since a restaurant in XY straight up serves it to the player as well. The ethics of this may be justified. Consider that slowpoke has a very dulled nervous system, so it doesn't feel any pain. Consider also that it gets the ability Regenerator, which allows it to quickly grow back its tail. Also of note is the fact that it fishes with its tail tip; this its tail is meant to be bitten or damaged and this doesn't harm the animal. Harvesting slowpoke tails is then almost as OK as taking a Tropius banana or a Chansey's egg, since slowpoke doesn't really care (or seem to know, since it is stated that it often forgets to reel in its catch and so the fish presumably gets away with a chunk of its tail even). And there you have that particular dish. Order up! And now I'm sleeping BTW so see you in several hours. Feel free to progress the discussion meanwhile.

Steel, Water and Psychic types are your friends. So, anything that is fast and hits hard is also useful. Consider Magnezone (or Magneton if you can't evolve it yet) with Charge Beam and Flash Cannon or a Klinklang with Shift Gear and Gear Grind. Greninja with Extrasensory and Surf and Meowstic will also help, I'm sure. Flare Blitzing Arcanine should also be a good weapon. Perhaps you can consider breeding or EV training if you haven't done it, that can usually make battling more reliable.

Oh, they're great fun. The betrayals, tacit deals and crazy strategies are hugely entertaining. It's even more fun when you start using doghorse mons and idiotic moves, because half the strategy in free for alls is to avoid looking like an obvious threat that would be triple-targeted the moment it hit the field. So you won't always find the same old Lando-T and stuff, you may well be surprised by a Special Garchomp or a Larvesta or something unexpectedly weird that can still pull stuff off. Ah, coming back to gen7 theorizng, though... Do you think the concept of bathrooms and toilets will finally appear, if only as a cosmetic joke? We've at least had our Mom have a room of her own in XY, so we can assure yourself that she doesn't have to sleep on the floor. But where does anyone go to answer Nature's call? Or do you think that'd go too far even for a joke?

...and then there are two recentish XY episodes which involve a megalomaniac Malamar that causes harm to other Pokémon, both wild and belonging to the group, simply out of its own malice and desire to take over the forest/wherever it lived. There's also an evillish wild Florges that terrorized Ash's Goomy's swamp. That statement made by Jessie's Arbok, IIRC, can be safely assumed to be invalidated by the Canon anime itself, even without us having to understand that it was merely an opinion of an individual Pokémon, who is no more a representative of its entire race than I am of us all. The anime IS for kids, after all.

I'm glad this point has been raised. To be frank, I was waiting for opinions, because this thread shouldn't become a monologue. Selective breeding is indeed what Pokémon breeding g is based off, as you rightly said. While it isn't necessary to not breed Poliwaraths and Sunfloras, for thanks to the munificence of Smogon every Pokémon save Luvdisc, Farfetch'd, Unown and the like can find some place in some tier of competitive battling; however, breeding for better IVs is logically the same as stated, in that you'd use a 'breed stock' which has excellent IVs itself, rather than one with bad IVs. As I said, ethically this is just as acceptable as real life breeding of racehorses or dogs in stud farms and kennels. The point raised about hacking is far more intriguing now, since it is generally frowned upon both in casual and competitive runs. Of course, editing a Pokémon to have the wrong moves or abilities and such attributes is indeed unnatural and therefore unethical, as it would upset the balance of both nature as well as any competition, in a Pokémon-is-real scenario. But even 'normal' hacking is an aberration in such a situation, being a similar concept as cloning, only instead of copying a sentient life form, we are creating one out of the blue with enhanced powers, so to speak. Basically, we are playing God and this raises even more complex ethical questions. How are we to decide on hacking? How do we justify the Creation of Pokémon just for our whims out of nowhere? What is to be done to the hacked Pokemon after it is used in the tournament of what-have-you? Release into the wild and upset the natural balance? Trade away? Box forever? Destroy? After all, it is still a sentient being that would be all the more confused due to its unnatural creation. If Mewtwo taught us anything it's that unnaturally created enhanced beings are generally a bad idea, both for the creature itself and potentially for the world around them. We'd be needing a Nuremberg Code of sorts to be agreed upon to decide the legality and morality of hacking and consequent actions in the canon world. Breeding, despite all the selection and rejection and potential abuse that it entails, it at least natural and socially more tolerable. Of course, stepping out of the frame and viewing the game as merely a game, Hacking is done, of course. Hardly anyone other than purists have the time anymore to breed mons, and we all 'gen' our mons for battles. This is not a difficult decision at all since in that case Pokémon have no individuality and are merely pixelated pawns that are created and erased like any other set of variables. What do you guys say?

Magnezone is the one true God.