Chase

...I can play trombone. If I were to be made into the game, I would probably have to be one of those cool Arcade Stars, seeing as my biggest panache in Reborn is the ability to enjoy and successfully play Voltorb Flip. without a calculator. P.S. User is already Team Meteor Grunt Hilda. Redacted.

If you're looking the sky, i'd suggest tilting your head back, friend. Zeph.

Even if Misora didn't know she had to take a stab at the next visitor, the gif almost won an upvote from me. Seriously though, girl. Hilarious. Rose.

HI there. Keep rolling with the punches, and don't ever break people's mailboxes with baseball bats. It's not lawful.

Hi there! o/ Looks like you've gotten quite the reception already. Keep on keeping on, and don't get tied up and left lying on some railroad tracks. The train eventually does come.

Probably should have looked inside the box. Rose.

Alright, I don't do this too often, because most of the time, I don't deem it a need. But, I have to admit, I was looking at this thread from the outside without fully understanding how the ladders worked. My lack of information caused me to make several groundless arguments as to reasoning behind the vote and wasted a lot of brainpower on something that probably doesn't really matter that much to myself. So, I do greatly apologize to those that labored to spar with me throughout that exchange, and because of it, I better understand the system and how it works. I'm still going to vote for the side myself, because I -still- believe my first post on this thread is relevant and gives reasoning that wasn't totally refuted and/or refutes previous statements made by another poster who shared their thoughts. As for the others that aren't turning up, I'm sorry, but I can't speak for them and I won't bother to do so. Ultimately, the vote is about which ladder to put the spotlight on, and as such doesn't really warrant any further debate and critique from one such as myself that doesn't understand as much as she thought she did. Sorry for any inconveniences and I do hope that you don't judge my character based off of my poor showing of tact in this debate. I was a pleasure discussing with you all.

Howdy, pardner. Enjoy your stay, and don't eat the yellow snow.

Congrats, you two! At least you didn't threaten to turn anyone into Bandit Keith....Tristan WAS harsh.

I wouldn't exactly be counting a 15-10 vote as conclusive, even though this is the "final" vote to begin with. It -shouldn't- matter if you take the steps to direct different types of battlers to ladders they need to be in. For what it's worth, I don't understand why the Wi-Fi clause wouldn't already be in effect, but I don't think asking the community here for a vote is exactly the smartest thing to do in order to resolve it.

Okay, so laziness is the reason we're having a vote to change the default ladder? I mean we're better off tearing down old ladders, and raising public awareness if your worried about preserving your precious WiFi clause ladder. Just because people wont go through the effort to change the ladder to the WiFi one doesn't mean it really needs to be voted on. The biggest issue that we're facing is that, according to the last vote, a sizable amount of people DON'T want the WiFi clause to be on the default ladder, which has caused this royal mess of multiple reforendums and squabbling, when the effort probably should have been spent on raising awareness on the other ladders.

If there WILL be entirely separate ladders, why are we having vote(s) over the default ladder? All it takes is a topic on PO saying "Hey, guy, make sure you decide on which ladder conditions suit your fancy and get on the RIGHT LADDER. It doesn't MATTER what the default is! Talk about unnecessary conflict earlier....

Then THATS where the problem lies. There should be separate ladders. Why deny someone the choice to -try- and ladder with a bit more variables (such as entire teams) in the unknown? I understand that this is a vote on a fix that is probably much easier to do than to address the actual problem, but I can't bring myself to vote in a manner to deprive anyone of an opportunity to battle as they see fit.

@ Slant - I'm not going to bother arguing against the control a player has when knowing the opponents team later on in the match. That's one of the positives of team preview. Again, however, having a brain that can memorize your opponent's pokemon (or a cell phone camera that can do it for you) doesn't exactly equate to skill either. All that does is clear the fog a sizable bit more than not knowing your opponents team at all. In the end, you still have to deal with the Pokemon on the other side of the field, and all six of them to win. I'm certain there are those with enough ability to dig themselves out of late game holes just as much as there are those who can overcome early obstacles. @ Void - What I mean by winning turn one is this: Your lead pokemon has a matchup advantage, and will be able to set up it's hazards or it's stats while taking little to no damage at all, while possibly drawing a switch. I understood and was merely reiterating what you said about your scenario with Rotom and Heatran. I dunno why you think my initial post was in response to yours. I would have used a quote from you or put your name in it or something. Here's the crux of the issue. The options you can vote for are as follows: A, You make the WiFi Clause default, or B, you give people the OPTION. What's the problem with having a choice? You get the ability to WiFi Clause either way.

The reason I'm putting it on the skill of the player is because the wifi clause doesn't change the fact that the match is still going to be luck based! The degree may not be the same, but you aren't really replacing those recovered degrees with actual "skill". Skill is exemplified best IN the battle, not before the first turn!

Here's the ideal skilled player, guys. 1. A skilled player doesn't have to win turn 1. 2. A skilled player will be able to shut down gimmick teams. 3. A skilled player wins matches on predictions made later on in the match. 4. A skilled player preserves his or her pokemon, meaning the margin of victory is wider and the doubt of the victor's skill is unquestioned.

It's not more luck based if you have the so-called "skill" to dig yourself out of a bad matchup on the first turn. If you don't, then I can see why you would vote to make the wifi clause default.

I clearly said in my post that there is still opportunity to make predictions without team preview. Having it be an aside clause would not deprive skilled players the ability to exhibit skillful technique. You don't HAVE to win a match on Turn 1.

Wouldn't the lack of the team preview make it MORE COMPETITIVE when battling someone that is supposed to be a pushover then? It's not competitive to steamroll someone before you even choose a move. I don't think you addressed any of mine, other than you don't give a rip about people that aren't as solid a combatant as you are.

Controversy aside, I'll explain my reasoning for not being in the wifi-clause crowd. 1. The part of the prediction game that is affected by the team preview doesn't exactly equate to skill. If you can look at someone's team and say "Oh, they have Klefki, so I'm going to lead with this" it immediately sets the tone for the battle and causes some leveraging - without any of the battle actually taking place. 2. You can't justifiably say that the wifi-clause makes the battlers feel more in control of the match. Even with it, you will still get randomly generated Critical hits, status effects, missed attacks, etc. Even if you want to make it a game where you get an immediate edge from predicting a lead pokemon, the prevailing part of the battle is always going to be Luck, generated by random numbers and other variables. 3. In established contests, it evens out the playing field for the less experienced battler. The meta-game, up until X and Y, was relatively unpopular on the handhelds themselves because it wasn't friendly for novice combatants, and when you are trying to increase your ranking and you are forced to give experienced opponents the ability to predict your lead, it usually results in enough of an edge for the better player to hold on throughout the match. 4. In rebuttal to the "It's been there since Black and White" argument, the competitive pokemon meta-game has existed since the first generation, requiring LINK CABLES of all things to even exist at all. Team preview wasn't a thing during those days. 5. While, no matter which way you slice the issue, the battle will always be influenced by some significant degree of luck, and I feel that, from the standpoint of the experienced battler, you should make your predictions later in the match to secure victory, and the team preview not being there doesn't rob one such battler such opportunity.

*Wonders why PWB is asking a plant for an eyewitness account* ...Seems legit, Rose.

That was a baa-a-ad guess... Rose.

Whoa there, Slick. I didn't see that normal welcome up there earlier. GOT YO BACK, SHEEP.

Alright, I can work with this. Howdy, pardner. Welcome to Reborn. (even though you've been lurking around, self admittedly) Few things. 1. If you are even remotely into competitive Pokemon battling, sign up for PokeNations. It's a unique contest that is done in a teamwork setting that offers opportunities for even the least seasoned battlers to get better and for the opportunity for immortal glory by having your victories posted on the forums for all to see. Who doesn't like glory? 2. With shameless begging for Nations signees aside, feel free to download Pokemon Online and find us on the Reborn server. Because Talk is fun, and friends are fun too. 3. The game itself can be quite hard, feel free to post any questions you may have here on the forums, and specifically ask Vinny, Sheep, myself, or anyone you may think knows the answer, and they will do their best to provide you with one. 4. Be happy, Be healthy, and enjoy your time!

Thanks, Sanic! ...and thanks for cleaning up my mess Edge. :/