Kamina

@ who ever closed the thread I was never disrespectful and thread should not be closed because of other people who can’t have a decent discussion @ Neo Lol I never said that CS was the solusion I just said I would not mind having CS popularity increase. Cool down seriously didn’t you make that tread about being a good citizen (such a hypocrite xD)? I ladder you don’t period and im pretty daym good at it. People who don’t ladder should never have a say in ladder especially if their only reason is aww it takes away my identity (sad face) kk you can lock it now

Yah you right but its shadow tag on chand thats the problem not shadow tag on gothella but maybe i should have made that more clear in the start. heard of rule 1? your an auth and i dissapoint

@ Allan Again this is for a discussion i have given reasons and if you disagree i would like to hear valid reasons as well. Please refrain from posting if you don't have anything useful to say. @ swimming how does Conculdurr counter Chand? 252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 322-379 (84.51 - 99.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO one hit ko after stelthrocks T tar is like the only pursuiter in OU and scizor but that would mean chand was not stuck on a fire move Now a days exadrill runs Iron head/ Return/ Eathquake which hits every type neutrally except bronzong and skarmory which can trapped and killed by a chand. Shed shelling bronzong is out of the option because leftovers are its only move of recovery and to force people to run a shed shell skarm in every team is over centeralizing the metagame

@Mczipo The minority consist of people who do not ladder and don't want the change because it somehow takes away there identity or something like that (when it has no effect on them at all). I can almost guarantee that 90% of the people who voted NO have not recently competitively laddered in reborn. I used those Pokemon so "religiously" because they are they only methods i can find to making it to the top. Outside of abusing weather the only other viable start that could potential to make it to the top is trick room that is all. If you read Slants RMT that i showed in thread he stated how he had tried a bunch of unique starts that all failed due to weather. i think banning the swift swimmers / exadrill / chand is good enough. @Anthesia Slant already said in his first post how Sun abusers are different from their counterparts. To address your slippery slope there really isn't any. Its not like only 1 pokemon will replace exadrill 's role and 1 Pokemon will replace all the swift swimmers. Them being banned will lead to the viability of many new Pokemon. Of course if you were to play in the tiers forever they would ultimately become stale as well but that again is not a reason to not do a thing.

@ Neo Although I would like to see more people laddering in CS it will not fix the fact that OU is broken here and should be fixed. I do remember such an agreement but after having more experience in the tier my opinion about swift swim and sand rush have evolved and I no longer see any need for keeping either of them when it is so apparent that they make this meta-game stale. @Ket Exadrill is different in that it gets a speed boost in the sand and also has access to swords dance which means that if it is able to get one off than it will OHKO every single pokemon (except skarm) in the meta game even full health gliscor with iron head after stealth rocks damage. You could say garchomp could also work but it is pretty slow compared to other sweepers only reaching 331 speed with jolly nature and can easily be finished off with an ice move from a faster Pokémon. Slant has already explained that yes a well-made team with counters to those specific Pokémon but the counters to them are so little that you force everyone to run the same 1-2 Pokémon in their team all the time if they want to get any higher thus creating an over centralized meta-game. To your second post, try laddering with that team and once you get to the higher levels you will notice how much of a problem they become.

@Allan and Mczipo Yes reborn does indeed have a meta-game in higher levels of play:] only bitch about things that need to be changed and that the majority think should be changed. That aside I think we should stay on topic and discuss about chand / Exadrill and swift swimmers and not go on random tangents. @ket I did talk about exadrill it was even in my title if you didn’t read the thread at all not editing just going to make a new post -.-

i dont know how to add a poll D: can you do it for me?

In my year and a half stay in reborn i never found the tiers to be a staple thing in reborn. tbh when new people come here i usually hear them say "these tiers suck" and leave than "omg i love these tiers im going to stay" but who knows i maybe wrong. sorry if i was unclear at first but what i meant to say to Neo was that we should not ignore tiers just because of something that had occurred in a ladder competition.

If you want to battle for fun and use whatever Pokémon you want you can still challenge other people and do so and nothing would stop you. League and ladder need not be tied together especially when they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I don’t see why we have to modify league just because we shifted some Pokémon to uber in ladder. League never cared about uber or non uber it only cared about legendary and non-legendary and it will still stay the same way regardless of what happened to the tiers. Ladder competition cheaters leaving a bad taste have nothing to do with the actual tiers themselves so that should not be a reason to just ignore it. If you don’t want to be a competitive battler no one is going to force you to. But if you do you are forced to run OP pokemon and become less creative which does not seem fair at all. @Renzo i love that idea! a majority of people in showdown that i played dont actually run weather in OU though

Bad godot you double posted as for slipery slope i think its actually worth it because ss and exadrill are really ruining the meta game. but i really dont see how banning weather leads to banning landorus-i or banning genesect dx its not like weather countered either one of them (rock polish landorus outspeeds exadrill and the swift swimmers and genesect can be dealt with prediction tho chandy did doo a nice job countering it 2 more months 2 long i cant take des overpowder pokes ;( were unique in a bad way which is my main point @ bowser i mean if people can just build teams in 3-5 min and make it to top what does that say about the tiers here?

Discussion about Swift Swim/ Exadrill and Chand Read EVERYTHING before you post please : ) I know it has been previously discussed here but after my years of laddering in reborn tiers (and being in the top multiple times) I think it is about time that they go My reasons for it are simple; they take away originality from competitive battling. You are probably wondering "how so" (if you don't competitively ladder here) I will start with Chandelure since it has been discussed here previously - It has already been stated before but they will always trap and kill a Pokemon and unless you run a pursuit er it will mostly likely not be the only Pokemon that gets trapped and killed - You can escape chandelure by running shed shell but many walls/sweepers rely on their items to make them more durable like gliscor with toxic orb and fortress with leftovers (only mode of recovery) and they serve a pivotal role in teams and with them down it take away synergy in teams and makes them much easier to beat - Hail is not viable at all since abomasnow will always die to a chand unless shed shelled in which case it would be almost impossible to set up hail since Abomasnow does not have any mode of recovery besides leach seed and with all its weaknesses it’s almost impossible to set up hail - non weather abusering sweepers are no longer used because they can easily be revenged killed by scarf chand - teamed up with rotom-w it has near perfect synergy only being able to be stopped by walls like chansy and blissy - Yah its weak to hazards but theres a move called rapid spin Just recently slant posted an RMT in which he got to top with a gimmicky swift swim team that he had made in just five minutes (probably less) Making it to the top should require making a team with more thought put into it. Heck atm I am also top and I made a sand team in literally 3 minutes and is posted in the bottom with screen shoot of achievement Ludicolo in the rain counters almost every pokemon (I am assuming the moveset focus blast/giga drain/ice beam/hydro pump No sweeper can outrun it and will almost always be onhitkoed by its moves and no priority move (expecially if there are hazards) is super effective against it so that it also out of the question. The only pokemon that can successfully stop it in its trail and is OU is Chancy / Blissey Exadrill in the sand is also OP especially if it is allowed to get up an SD. Assuming the set that I used which was SD/Earthquake/Iron Head/Return it will onehitko any pokemon in the current meta. The only counters to this beast are strong pokemons with mach punch like breloom but they are easily countered by chand and so are most of exadrills counters like skarm and gliscor You can read up on slants rmt which is below if you want more examples of swift swimmers ruining the Meta game. http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4699#entry77349 and Slants post which needs to be read by everyone Thank you for taking your time and I would like to see other peoples take on getting rid of swiftswim/ exadrill and Chandelure so feel free to post below but please be respectable in your post :] Thank you

XD Graz on top As of late I have also started to think that swift swim (and shadow tag chand) have started becoming op in this current meta game. For the team itself I don't see much flaws at all. Only threat to team is rapid spin - shedinja combo but who runs that xD. You will almost always with the weather war with your pokes and no one uses hail because of chandaleur. You rmt clearly demonstrates how op weather abusers are. THEY MUST BE BANNED Nicely written rmt as always slant : ) Wrote this in iPhone so sorry if there might some grammar/spelling/syntax mistakes

Welcome to reborn its always nice to get more competitive battlers here I don't think we have a channel in showdown

hiiiii blue version was my first pokemon game 2

seems like a good idea @kingtrace Although not many in the forums actually ladder so there would only be a small pool of competitors. like 10 people max

grats on reaching the top and welcome to the forums : )

aw what a tragedy hopefully next season those people wont snipe anymore also leader interviews look interesting but they are one- dimensional :|

9/10 simon kawaii looking Simon

hai there welcome ^^ hope you enjoy your stay hopefully you dont have any more problems with the game D ;

hai welcome ^^ i'm sure you you will not have any trouble fitting in : p

omg it look so cool :ooo

welcome :] cant wait to see you two

Renzo is the champion with me in a close second the results are posted here http://challonge.com/Pure_types

Also it forgot to be specified in the top but only OU and below pokes are allowed if you want to check the tiers http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2133

OMggggggz gj DD congratz man : P and saph and ren maybe i should give this reborn game a try : P