Are we finally going to ditch IVs on v14?

[MhicKy]

I feel like I banged on this drum way too many times but IVs are pointless.. EVs have the whole build-making process to them but IVs are just a complete waste of time..
Legend of Arceus ditched IVs all together and there's a strong possibility gen9 will do the same.. So, is Rejuvenation (and heck, maybe even Reborn) going to ditch IVs? 
It kinda takes away from the experience when you have to stop the story to breed pokemons or having to use cheats (debug mode).

[nonsensei]

Things that come to my mind just on a first thought that would be heavily affected by removing IVs:

1) Hidden Power - The way it's implemented in Legend Arceus just kills off the point of this otherwise handy move. We'd either need an NPC to set its type for instance if IVs are out of picture.
2) Trick Room - Yep, there are cases where you don't want perfect IVs. Or at least, there's this one case.

[pizzagod13]

11 minutes ago, nonsensei said:

Things that come to my mind just on a first thought that would be heavily affected by removing IVs:

1) Hidden Power - The way it's implemented in Legend Arceus just kills off the point of this otherwise handy move. We'd either need an NPC to set its type for instance if IVs are out of picture.
2) Trick Room - Yep, there are cases where you don't want perfect IVs. Or at least, there's this one case.

I mean it would not be that hard to change the way hidden power works... if you just make it be a 1/18 chance for each type. Easy fix.

 

As for trick room? Sure, but it won't matter much in the grand scheme of things, trick room teams use slower pokemon anyway, so a trick room team will (almost) always be "faster" than your Pokemon anyway... 

 

I honestly, think IVs are really annoying, I always just use debug to max out my IVs + Optimize natures, after I get ditto + destiny knot (after 8th gym), because it is a massive edge to have maxed IVs + natures. They are also free to max out, since it costs like a few hundred money per mon, to max out an IV if you use breeding. The only cost is that it wastes a HUGE amount of your time, as in many hours per Pokemon, and in a game like this where your team might be as big as 20+ members (Yes, my Evil run in v13 really had this many members, my fairy mono run I am doing right now has even more), this is a obscene time investment that is just tedious busy work, which is why I cheat to skip it. 

[nonsensei]

7 hours ago, pizzagod13 said:

I mean it would not be that hard to change the way hidden power works... if you just make it be a 1/18 chance for each type. Easy fix.

 

As for trick room? Sure, but it won't matter much in the grand scheme of things, trick room teams use slower pokemon anyway, so a trick room team will (almost) always be "faster" than your Pokemon anyway... 

 

I honestly, think IVs are really annoying, I always just use debug to max out my IVs + Optimize natures, after I get ditto + destiny knot (after 8th gym), because it is a massive edge to have maxed IVs + natures. They are also free to max out, since it costs like a few hundred money per mon, to max out an IV if you use breeding. The only cost is that it wastes a HUGE amount of your time, as in many hours per Pokemon, and in a game like this where your team might be as big as 20+ members (Yes, my Evil run in v13 really had this many members, my fairy mono run I am doing right now has even more), this is a obscene time investment that is just tedious busy work, which is why I cheat to skip it. 

I was merely attempting to point out a few things that needed some sort of adjustment in case IVs are removed. And yes, I also use like 20 active members in my mono Poison run by the endgame, not to mention retired members & some niche ones, so I know the pain.
I'm not quite sure why you'd want RNG in your Hidden Power when you want it removed from the IVs. I'd think more in a similar system as nature change where you can choose it yourself for a price.

Edited March 13, 2022 by nonsensei

[pizzagod13]

3 hours ago, nonsensei said:

I was merely attempting to point out a few things that needed some sort of adjustment in case IVs are removed. And yes, I also use like 20 active members in my mono Poison run by the endgame, not to mention retired members & some niche ones, so I know the pain.
I'm not quite sure why you'd want RNG in your Hidden Power when you want it removed from the IVs. I'd think more in a similar system as nature change where you can choose it yourself for a price.

Yeah, there should be a way to change it for sure. But there is no way to have natural hidden powers unless you make it random.

[MhicKy]

@nonsensei @pizzagod13, they already changed how Hidden Power works, according to Bulbapedia, "Hidden Power's base power is now 50. Hidden Power now changes it's own type to be super effective against the opposing Pokemon", that change was made exactly because they already removed IVs and frankly I prefer it much more than the previous version, it's much more reliable now and less grindy, I mean, try getting a pokemon with 5 IVs on 31 AND the Hidden Power you want, that's PAIN.

As for Trick Room, I feel like it's a small price to pay to get rid of this ridiculous grind.. I mean, it's even more work to get your pokemon to have 31IVs on everything and 0 on speed for Trick Room..

[nonsensei]

7 minutes ago, MhicKy said:

@nonsensei @pizzagod13, they already changed how Hidden Power works, according to Bulbapedia, "Hidden Power's base power is now 50. Hidden Power now changes it's own type to be super effective against the opposing Pokemon", that change was made exactly because they already removed IVs and frankly I prefer it much more than the previous version, it's much more reliable now and less grindy, I mean, try getting a pokemon with 5 IVs on 31 AND the Hidden Power you want, that's PAIN.

As for Trick Room, I feel like it's a small price to pay to get rid of this ridiculous grind.. I mean, it's even more work to get your pokemon to have 31IVs on everything and 0 on speed for Trick Room..

Hidden Power is mostly about hitting stuff with 4x weakness that you otherwise don't get to do due to movepool restrictions or stuff that resist your other moves with 2x, at least. In either case, I only see the 50 base power a nerf.
However, I'm curious & couldn't find results on a quick search, can the new Hidden Power hit 4x or is it just always 2x dmg? If it's the latter (and probably is), then it was made virtually useless. (for endgame, at least)

[MhicKy]

1 hour ago, nonsensei said:

However, I'm curious & couldn't find results on a quick search, can the new Hidden Power hit 4x or is it just always 2x dmg? If it's the latter (and probably is), then it was made virtually useless. (for endgame, at least)

I am also curious about that.. My guess is that it can hit x4 since it's suppose to change to the enemy weakness and if a enemy has a common weakness with their duo-typing I recon it would choose that, I don't think it's always x2 or else the nerf wouldn't be needed, it probably always try to go for the x4 if possible, if not it will choose a type that will do x2, if that's the case then Hidden Power can be a powerful clutch for Pokemons lacking coverage.. I myself never used the old Hidden Power because of the complications of getting it on the right typing and I believe most people who did had it probably cheated (which is understandable since it's so freakin' grindy).

[VMeemes]

It says over on bulbapedia that when there are multiple valid types, it's randomized between them. So if you have a bug/flying type for example it could randomly switch between fire, electric, ice, and all the types that bug/flying would be weak to. It can switch to rock, but from what it says on the site it changes each turn, so you could easily just get everything else but rock. 50 power is near useless sometimes unless you have a pokemon with technician or you really need the coverage. I don't use it myself because of how situational it is, not to mention just not getting how IVs work besides they make my stat go up and that's about it.

 

Whether or not it's a nerf or a buff, hidden power still has niche uses for teams. That doesn't mean they're going to get rid of IVs though, that shits staying for sure.

Edited March 17, 2022 by VMeemes

[MhicKy]

13 hours ago, VMeemes said:

It says over on bulbapedia that when there are multiple valid types, it's randomized between them. So if you have a bug/flying type for example it could randomly switch between fire, electric, ice, and all the types that bug/flying would be weak to. It can switch to rock, but from what it says on the site it changes each turn, so you could easily just get everything else but rock. 50 power is near useless sometimes unless you have a pokemon with technician or you really need the coverage. I don't use it myself because of how situational it is, not to mention just not getting how IVs work besides they make my stat go up and that's about it.

 

Whether or not it's a nerf or a buff, hidden power still has niche uses for teams. That doesn't mean they're going to get rid of IVs though, that shits staying for sure.

Huh.. Well I never used Hidden Power anyway.. At least this change makes it somewhat usable, tho' I wouldn't bank on it either