Pokemon Reborn Ingame Tier list

[Truly Deceptive]

It also serves excellently early on while leveling; switching between water, normal, and dark types for reliable coverage. It warrants use throughout the game without needing to rely upon support (or, at least, requiring minimal support).

[que]

I apologize if someone already recommended this, but shouldn't we do tiers for every Pokemon as opposed to evolutionary chains? That way, players can get a sense of what is viable at which points in the game.

That being said, the placement of each pre-evolution should be relative to where they would be commonly used in the game. For example, a player would have a Marshtomp from gyms 1-3 (assuming they don't over-level and evolve it) and the tier Marshtomp would be in is relative to how useful it is during those parts of the game (I'd personally say B or C).

Hopefully that makes sense, otherwise I just look silly. x)

Also, I am working on a tier placement for Slaking, so DIBS!

[Khey]

@wizard and truly

I was seriously considering putting greninja in s, but i decided against it because he lacks the raw power the others there. They have extremely powerful moves and strong offensive stats to back it up, while greninjas offensive stats are just good, and its strongest move till later in the game is night slash. If someone else in addition to you guys can vouche for s, ill put it up.

@devon

I still am considering splitting it up into seperate parts, but it would not be based on evolution. Every pokemons levels are very different, and you can level them up any time after you get them. If i were to split it, it would be based on the story. Best guesses on when would be pre route 1 and post route 1. Reason being would the it is about level 50 and beginning of episode 10, as well as making sense story line.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Khey

[que]

I still am considering splitting it up into seperate parts, but it would not be based on evolution. Every pokemons levels are very different, and you can level them up any time after you get them. If i were to split it, it would be based on the story. Best guesses on when would be pre route 1 and post route 1. Reason being would the it is about level 50 and beginning of episode 10, as well as making sense story line.

Well, evolutions are tied to the story, in a sense. Hopefully, nobody has a Swampert when facing Julia, they would most likely have a Marshtop, which is why I was suggesting talking about when certain evolutions are viable.

---

Slakoth -> Vigoroth -> Slaking

Tier: A or B

Availability: Early (headbutt required)

Stats: Highest of available Pokemon

Movepool: Excellent

Slakoth is found around the level that it evolves into Vigoroth, so most players will not have it long. Because of its attack stat and normal STAB, Slakoth's Scratch (or Facade if you have the TM) should KO most Pokemon around it's level in 2-3 hits. Of course, due to Truant, this will take 4 turns minimum.

Vigoroth is a blessing in disguise. Coupled with Facade (or Slash), Slack Off and Faint Attack, this Pokemon is capable of doing decent damage to almost every Pokemon in or around its level while being able to heal itself upon taking damage. Vital Spirit prevents it from being put to sleep and trolled, making it helpful against Pokemon with Sleep Powder, Spore, Hypnosis, etc.

Slaking is a Pokemon that can be a savage when used properly. While unable to sweep teams due to Truant, Slaking establishes its worth as a revenge killer and Cofagrigus' worst nightmare (acquiring Mummy if Slaking hits it or it hits Slaking.) In Double Battles, the player's Cofagrigus can give Slaking its ability, making Slaking a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. Because of its vast movepool, Slaking's type coverage is excellent, making it dangerous when switching into battle. On that note, due to Slaking's bulk, it should have no problems switching in unless it is underleveled or hit by a Focus Blast.

Overall, Slaking lacks the potential to sweep, which hinders its usefulness slightly. However, because the player can switch freely in single battles after knocking out a Pokemon (which should happen in 1-2 hits due to Slaking's monstrous attack stat), this problem goes mostly unnoticed until double/triple battles occur. For these reasons, I believe Slaking deserves an A or B rating, but does not merit a C or lower.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Kaito

[Infinix]

Spinarak/Ariados

Tier D

Availability: Very Early

Stats: Mediocre which means not having a terribad nature with a terribad IV is vital if you don't want to fail horribly

Movepool: Terrible early on, decent late

Early-Mid game potential: Terrible

Late game potential: Decent

Early game it has one of the worst movepools ever, with 2 only usable moves, night shade and sucker punch. Late game if you can get the TMS for, he has decent coverage and can be a decent suicide bomber. You could probably run a mixed sweeper set with Venoshock, Toxic, X Scissor/Megahorn(if you can breed for it), Dig or have him lead with Sticky Web and deal some considerable damage with a pure physical set, X Scissor/Megahorn Sucker Punch and Poison Jab/Cross Poison. He's not bad late game, just his terrible early game sets him back way too far and probably isn't an attractable pokemon for the average person to use who just wants to beat the game.

tl;dr

He's one of those terrible early game pokemon where you want to level up as much as possible ASAP.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Infinix

[Wizardchu]

Durant

Tier B

Availability: Mid-late

Movepool: Good.

I'll start with the bad. Durant has the special defense stat of a wet noodle, and hustle makes him unreliable sometimes. Ok, now on to the good. This thing is pretty fast and hits like a freight train. Bug steel is a pretty good typing that can somewhat offset his special weakness. One of his big draws (for me at least) is that he destroys some of the big threats on the later gym leaders; Noel's Clefable and Radomus's gardevoir, along with most of Luna's team. His movepool includes some strong options such as Iron head, x-scissor, dig, crunch, and rock slide. Durant is high risk, high reward. Players with anger management issues should not use Durant, otherwise they just might punch a hole in their computer screen when he misses an X--scissor or iron head.

Darmanitan

Tier B or A

Availability: mid-late

Movepool: Good.

Words don't even describe how strong this thing is. I don't know what they were smoking at game freak when they decided to give it 140 base attack and sheer force. You don't even have to use flare blitz if you don't like the recoil damage. Fire punch with the sheer force boost still hits amazingly hard. For coverage Darmanitan gets access to strong fighting moves like Superpower, Hammer Arm, and brick break. For even more overwhelming power, if you get the opportunity you can set up a belly drum to end all life in the reborn region. While darmanitan has pretty bad defenses, he has pretty good hp and speed so he can usually live long enough to annihilate something.

[que]

Khey, are you still updating this? The tiering system seems useful for newer players.

[Khey]

Khey, are you still updating this? The tiering system seems useful for newer players.

Yup, i just havent had time to sit down and add the last few peoples suggestions. Homework and Finals and all that. Im just about to go to my last class for the week so i should have the opportunity to do that in a couple hours.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Khey

[Khey]

Updated to the most recent suggestions.

Also, I updated the Availability section to reflect badges required, because it is more convenient for figuring out how soon something is compared to a vague "early". Because of this change, I ran into some questions about availability. If someone could tell me how soon you could get the following things, that would be really useful.

Rose Incense

Good rod

Rock Smash

Headbutt trees

And last but not least, can you go in the Power Plant as soon as you get to the beryl ward, or do you have to wait until you're about to battle shade?

Edited May 2, 2014 by Khey

[DJ Mewdeon ft Dan Punk]

Updated to the most recent suggestions.

Also, I updated the Availability section to reflect badges required, because it is more convenient for figuring out how soon something is compared to a vague "early". Because of this change, I ran into some questions about availability. If someone could tell me how soon you could get the following things, that would be really useful.

Rose Incense

Good rod

Rock Smash

Headbutt trees

And last but not least, can you go in the Power Plant as soon as you get to the beryl ward, or do you have to wait until you're about to battle shade?

This is a quality change, and I support it. I don't recall much of these offhand but I know you need to be about to fight Shade to access the Power Plant.

Edit: Headbuttable trees are available almost immediately via Bidoof learning Headbutt naturally.

Edit2: The Good Rod is in Spinel Town if I remember right.

Edit3: I remember getting Rose Incense from a girl in Peridot Ward, but there is an event to get Budew, so you may not need it.

Edit4: You acquire Rock Smash from a man under the Grand Staircase, but I think you need Shelly's badge to use it outside of battle.

... I guess I lied about not remembering these...

Edited May 2, 2014 by Blind Guardian

[Vinny]

You can get a Rose Incense from a trainer in Peridot, a.k.a very soon in the game.

Rock Smash is available when you rescue Victoria.

If you mean the bigger part of the Power Plant, then i think you need to be about to battle Shade. Hmm, i've never tried to enter as soon as you reach Beryl. Will try later.

And Blind is right about both things.

[Khey]

... I guess I lied about not remembering these...

Wow, thanks, that's really useful. And thanks vinny for confirming. Everything in the guide so far should have a badge requirement now. Edited May 2, 2014 by Khey

[que]

I would update Biberal's movepool. In the main series, Biberal can learn many of the TMs and thus can get a wide range of type coverage (mostly special attacks). It should stay D tier, however, because it cannot use those moves effectively enough without requiring set-up and doesn't have the speed to sweep.

[DJ Mewdeon ft Dan Punk]

Wow, thanks, that's really useful. And thanks vinny for confirming. Everything in the guide so far should have a badge requirement now.

Making the availability less vague is a plus, and I think next you should work on clarifying/setting metrics for all of the other qualities.

It's difficult to have a measurable difference between a movepool that's "very good" vs "great" vs "amazing". You may need to discuss how to qualify the metrics here, though I suppose I could come up with something. Either way, I say continue moving forward with this increase in clarity as it will vastly improve your tier listing's usefulness.

Some of these analyses could use some more detail as well -- for instance, the Slurpuff review doesn't even note the Belly Drum + Unburden combo, which is currently exclusively Slurpuff's claim to fame! Additionally, we've seen 2 episodes since 9, but poor Forretress is still listed with hazards not working. Also, Porygon's line mentions "the upcoming gym" without explicitly stating which one it's referring to - I doubt everyone rushed to get it as soon as they could and due to the inclusion of the data chip this point may not be relevant depending on which gym leader it's talking about.

This may be more of a personal point, but things like the "comes way too late in the game, and very under leveled to be of any use" comment on every eeveelution are somewhat unwarranted, especially when you take breeding into consideration. In fact some of the higher tier Pokemon's strengths unlock or become even stronger via egg moves like Thunderpunch on Iron Fist Infernape, Belly Drum on the aforementioned Slurpuff or Giga Drain for Venusaur.

After skimming through it, here's some misspelled names:

Combuskin -> Combusken

Ghastly -> Gastly

Primape -> Primeape

Escavelier -> Escavalier

Ninetails -> Ninetales

Spiritzee -> Spritzee

Garbador -> Garbodor

Keep up the good work Khey, your list continues to improve.

edit: This one's nitpicky, but..

Bibarel

Edited May 2, 2014 by Blind Guardian

[Sheep]

Making the availability less vague is a plus, and I think next you should work on clarifying/setting metrics for all of the other qualities.

It's difficult to have a measurable difference between a movepool that's "very good" vs "great" vs "amazing". You may need to discuss how to qualify the metrics here, though I suppose I could come up with something. Either way, I say continue moving forward with this increase in clarity as it will vastly improve your tier listing's usefulness.

Some of these analyses could use some more detail as well -- for instance, the Slurpuff review doesn't even note the Belly Drum + Unburden combo, which is currently exclusively Slurpuff's claim to fame! Additionally, we've seen 2 episodes since 9, but poor Forretress is still listed with hazards not working. Also, Porygon's line mentions "the upcoming gym" without explicitly stating which one it's referring to - I doubt everyone rushed to get it as soon as they could and due to the inclusion of the data chip this point may not be relevant depending on which gym leader it's talking about.

This may be more of a personal point, but things like the "comes way too late in the game, and very under leveled to be of any use" comment on every eeveelution are somewhat unwarranted, especially when you take breeding into consideration. In fact some of the higher tier Pokemon's strengths unlock or become even stronger via egg moves like Thunderpunch on Iron Fist Infernape, Belly Drum on the aforementioned Slurpuff or Giga Drain for Venusaur.

Yeah, I agree with what you've said here. Some of the entries need revision 'cause they're a bit outdated. With respect to the porygon one I figure it's talking about the Florinia gym. That was the point at which you used to be able to obtain it. Now you can't get it until after Shelly. That normal typing might still come in handy for Shade though I guess.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Sheep93

[Khey]

Thank you so much for the tons of constructive criticism!

Making the availability less vague is a plus, and I think next you should work on clarifying/setting metrics for all of the other qualities.

It's difficult to have a measurable difference between a movepool that's "very good" vs "great" vs "amazing". You may need to discuss how to qualify the metrics here, though I suppose I could come up with something. Either way, I say continue moving forward with this increase in clarity as it will vastly improve your tier listing's usefulness.
Making the availability less vague is a plus, and I think next you should work on clarifying/setting metrics for all of the other qualities.

Other than specifically saying "Oh, this Pokemon gets this move and this move and this move" I really have no idea how I'd be able to do something like that. If you have an idea, I'd love to see it!

Additionally, we've seen 2 episodes since 9, but poor Forretress is still listed with hazards not working. Also, Porygon's line mentions "the upcoming gym" without explicitly stating which one it's referring to - I doubt everyone rushed to get it as soon as they could and due to the inclusion of the data chip this point may not be relevant depending on which gym leader it's talking about.

After skimming through it, here's some misspelled names:
Combuskin -> Combusken
Ghastly -> Gastly
Primape -> Primeape
Escavelier -> Escavalier
Ninetails -> Ninetales
Spiritzee -> Spritzee
Garbador -> Garbodor

Keep up the good work Khey, your list continues to improve.

Fixed these. Thanks for pointing them out.

...especially when you take breeding into consideration. In fact some of the higher tier Pokemon's strengths unlock or become even stronger via egg moves like Thunderpunch on Iron Fist Infernape, Belly Drum on the aforementioned Slurpuff or Giga Drain for Venusaur.

I'd rather keep breeding for moves out of this guide, mostly because it is aimed at someone that doesn't know what Pokemon they should get, but also because its not so much as playing the game as getting ready to play the game. If you really think I should mention breeding, I will, but it will be a footnote instead of saying it in the description, so that people do not go into it feeling they will be required to breed.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Khey

[que]

Kricketot -> Kricketune

Tier: C or D

Availability: Very Early

Stats: Below Average

Movepool: Decent

Kricketot, despite having Bide as its first offensive move, is easy to train through switching out or using Struggle Bug, which it gets at level 6. Players will not have Kricketot for more than 5 battles.

Kricketune's Technician ability, alongside STAB Fury Cutter, make it a force to be reckoned with early game. By spamming Fury Cutter, Kricketune can easily sweep the first two gym leaders (provided that the attack doesn't miss and Kricketune is leveled appropriately). After that, however, Kricketune becomes outclassed by other bug types as well as other Pokemon with Technician and better movepools (after the second badge, Mr. Mime outclasses Kricketune as a Technician user.)

Overall, because of its immense usefulness early game, this Pokemon should be C or D tier, but no lower than that.

[DJ Mewdeon ft Dan Punk]

Thank you so much for the tons of constructive criticism!

Anytime.

Other than specifically saying "Oh, this Pokemon gets this move and this move and this move" I really have no idea how I'd be able to do something like that. If you have an idea, I'd love to see it!

Well, allow me to think out loud for a second here.

A Pokemon's "movepool" can be broken down into 4 main parts:

• First we have the Pokemon and it's evolutionary line's natural learnset. This consists of all the moves it learns naturally by leveling up.
• Second we have TM/HM moves that are learned from machines and must be acquired by the player prior to use.
• Third are the egg moves that result from breeding Pokemon in the same egg group enabling mixing of natural learnset(s).
• Last are moves that are taught by move tutor NPCs ingame (excluding the move relearner).

In Reborn, we have rather limited access to TMs (I have 22 currently, though I may have missed a few) and HMs (just Cut and Strength for the time being) and the move tutors are limited as well (there are a pair on 7th street). With this in mind, Pokemon with strong natural learnsets are very desirable. As for the breeding moves ..

I'd rather keep breeding for moves out of this guide, mostly because it is aimed at someone that doesn't know what Pokemon they should get, but also because its not so much as playing the game as getting ready to play the game. If you really think I should mention breeding, I will, but it will be a footnote instead of saying it in the description, so that people do not go into it feeling they will be required to breed.

Breeding is certainly not a requirement of the game but it will severely limit your options if ignored, especially in the cases of event-exclusive Pokemon with poor IVs, or if you want more than one eeveelution, etc. I strongly recommend it is written about especially because most players can finish an episode's content with much time to spare before the next is released and breeding can be something to eat up time while also improving the overall strength of your team. The egg moves that some Pokemon get access to make it a nice bonus as well, with combinations like Wish Eevees or Dragon Dance Scraftys. It can even completely change the playstyle or role of certain Pokemon, such as Scolipede -- with breeding it can get Spikes and Toxic Spikes, enabling it to run a support set that places hazards and then Baton Passes out a huge speed boost.

While stats will likely be straightforward to make a metric for as it's all numeric, a Pokemon's movepool is tricky to judge and there's a few ways it could be done. You could try seeing how many viable moves it has or how many sets it can run or try to find a way to measure the "usefulness" of it's natural learnset's progression combined with how many different viable TM/HM moves it can use plus any useful egg or tutor moves. Might even want to take into consideration other elements of gameplay, such as whether it needs support or can stand on it's own as a threat.

I realize I haven't solved this problem but hopefully there's enough decent ideas here to start working on a more well-defined system of metrics.

Fixed these. Thanks for pointing them out.

Sure thing. I can look over the set in more detail if you'd like, but I skimmed it and picked out a few that seemed quicker fixes.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Blind Guardian

[Sheep]

I just had an idea that I want to run past you guys. Do you think it'd be a good idea to come up with some sort of list of potentially useful pokemon in reborn and then go through it one at a time with a weekly poll for people to vote on? Two questions, the first being which tier the pokemon sits in and the second being which one (out of 5 or so) they want to see next. I was just thinking that this would produce a steady flow of additions into the tier list. If people have other pokemon they want to see appear they could suggest them in the topic.

As for the issue of quantifying the strength of a pokemon's moveset, all I can think of is to list off all of the different "useful" moves from each section in spoiler tags.

[que]

I just had an idea that I want to run past you guys. Do you think it'd be a good idea to come up with some sort of list of potentially useful pokemon in reborn and then go through it one at a time with a weekly poll for people to vote on? Two questions, the first being which tier the pokemon sits in and the second being which one (out of 5 or so) they want to see next. I was just thinking that this would produce a steady flow of additions into the tier list. If people have other pokemon they want to see appear they could suggest them in the topic.

As for the issue of quantifying the strength of a pokemon's moveset, all I can think of is to list off all of the different "useful" moves from each section in spoiler tags.

Personally, I think we are better off just doing what we've been doing, simply because people are also including Pokemon that others wouldn't normally request for tiering like Bibarel and Ariados.

[Sheep]

Personally, I think we are better off just doing what we've been doing, simply because people are also including Pokemon that others wouldn't normally request for tiering like Bibarel and Ariados.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. Both of those pokemon ended up in the D tier. I dunno about you guys but the only reason I'd use a tier list is to find good pokemon for the early game. I already know what works late game. So in my opinion the most useful thing we could do with this is cover the best early game pokemon. 'Cause no-one wants to use bad pokemon right?

[que]

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. Both of those pokemon ended up in the D tier. I dunno about you guys but the only reason I'd use a tier list is to find good pokemon for the early game. I already know what works late game. So in my opinion the most useful thing we could do with this is cover the best early game pokemon. 'Cause no-one wants to use bad pokemon right?

Some Pokemon that may seem bad because of their competitive viability may actually end up being good in-game (Slaking, for example.) I think it is worth having people analyse those Pokemon since there is a chance they may end up being helpful in Reborn.

[Sheep]

Some Pokemon that may seem bad because of their competitive viability may actually end up being good in-game (Slaking, for example.) I think it is worth having people analyse those Pokemon since there is a chance they may end up being helpful in Reborn.

I never said anything about competitive viability. If you think that slaking is good for ingame in reborn but the public perception of it is bad then it's the exact type of pokemon I'm looking for. Basically I'm saying that by taking this to the broader public in the form of polls then we can get the broader public to suggest all of the hidden gems that no-one knows about but worked really well for someone. For example I made excellent use of noctowl and teddiursa in the early game. Both were bulky powerhouses but neither are considered strong pokemon. So if I've got two examples and you've got one, there must be tons more we don't know about right?

[que]

I never said anything about competitive viability. If you think that slaking is good for ingame in reborn but the public perception of it is bad then it's the exact type of pokemon I'm looking for. Basically I'm saying that by taking this to the broader public in the form of polls then we can get the broader public to suggest all of the hidden gems that no-one knows about but worked really well for someone. For example I made excellent use of noctowl and teddiursa in the early game. Both were bulky powerhouses but neither are considered strong pokemon. So if I've got two examples and you've got one, there must be tons more we don't know about right?

Correct, but if we are to tier based on polls, then those "hidden gems" probably won't be discovered because most people want popular Pokemon tiered first.

[Sheep]

Correct, but if we are to tier based on polls, then those "hidden gems" probably won't be discovered because most people want popular Pokemon tiered first.

*Shrugs* Well that's just a matter of opinion, and one which we clearly don't share. Still, the idea's just that, an idea. If you don't think it'll work then that's fine. This thread shouldn't be taken up with a debate unrelated to the placing of pokemon.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Sheep93