A question, A Rant, and a Reach out for help. Women, and the reality behind it all.

[Tomas Elliot]

I would just to let our technival stuff know, since Kurotsune is here, that the multiquote function seems to be glitchy when connected from and Android phone. I tried to quote Hukuna and Kurotsune but the resulting screen was a mess

Anyway:

@Hukuna lol think about all the times we got emotional during arguments in Se7en. We are not a bunch of manly guys are we? But jokes aside, I think you nailed: relationship between sexes are poisoned by a lot of prejudices and clichés. It is about time we learn to shed them.

@Kurotsune well I know for a fact that, in this past year I spent as a single, my life was overall much worse than it was in the 3 years prior when I still was with my gf. I mean sure, you might be right in saying relationships should be a plus and not a must (and in fact a year later I am still single, I didn't rush to find another one) but... That's a big plus, I tell you.

Although here I might be making a common mistake, so while I am at it I'll warn Ryan about it: I might be making the mistake known as "being in love with love". Basically, I don't miss Miriam because I still love her, but rather because I still love her, but because I miss being with someone, I miss feeling loved, I miss that plus Kurotsune was talking about.

And this is a mistake, so beware: when you fall for a girl, make sure you love HER, and not the idea of being with someone.

Also will somebody please explain to me what adhd is? As mentioned, I am not familiar with english medical terms...

[KingRyan]

Lol thomas, Adhd is attention deficit hyper disorder. In short, it basically means i have way too much energy for my own good, and that i have....lets call them multipliers on my motivational sense. If i want something, i will pursue it relentlessly until it is mine, but if i don't give a duck, it can go die in a hole. Luckily being as self aware as i am, i care about a LOT of things....speaking of relentlessly pursuing, that could be a major flaw in trying to pursue a relationship, But luckily, i think with your help/advice, and one of my favourite quotes, i should be ok. Some of you might just be familiar with it.

"A great love, is a lot like a good memory. When it's there, and you know it's there, but it's just out of your reach, it can be all that you think about. You can focus on it and try to force it, but the more you do, the more you seem to push it away. But if you're patient, and you hold still, maybe, just maybe, it'll come to you." - Leonard Church.

[Juniper]

Basically, I don't miss Miriam because I still love her, but rather because I still love her, but because I miss being with someone, I miss feeling loved, I miss that plus Kurotsune was talking about.

That made me laugh,

But I agree with everything you said in your post though. (except that I know what adhd is)

It's nice just to have someone.

I miss that x_x

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

That made me laugh,

But I agree with everything you said in your post though. (except that I know what adhd is)

It's nice just to have someone.

I miss that x_x

Yes, but not having someone and being happy is better than having someone and being miserable with them imo... Because we can't rely on another to fix ourselves of the things we perceive to be broken about ourselves. Because if we let that happen... if they ever leave it will tear us apart. We can't rely on them to be there to that degree because as a person we need to be whole to understand ourselves and we cannot have that burden be shouldered by our significant other. The love for the sake of having it or for the sake of feeling like you aren't broken... isn't going to last because it's not healthy in that way. It's nice to have someone... but it has to be for the right reasons and one must love themselves... before they can even begin to love another. Because if you can;t love yourself and everything about yourself... how can you truly love everything aobut another? Humans are infinitely flawed beings... we are never perfect and will never achieve perfection. But, that okay. Because our flaws are beautiful too. Because if they didn't exist there wouldn't be such a thing as strengths or the like. In their own way our flaws are also beautiful as the things that are our strengths and the things that make each of us unique. Because they also do this, flaws make us unique and who we are. They are our strengths if we look at them from a different angle and don't let them be flaws. I think understanding that is aprt to understanding what love is. It's loving everything... even what society would call a character flaw or something wrong with someone. And if one cannot accept or even love their own flaws... we won't be able to do that for another person's.

Not saying that's what you are saying mind you... it's just something I notice people fall into a lot of the time. They are more in love with the idea of love, or the idea of this person fixing all of their flaws that they lose sight of what it really is. I hate when that happens... because people do get hurt when it happens.

Of course... these are my beliefs so take them with a pinch of salt... but from my experience in this world... they are the conclusions I have drawn. Take them as you will lol.

[Juniper]

Yes, but not having someone and being happy is better than having someone and being miserable with them imo... Because we can't rely on another to fix ourselves of the things we perceive to be broken about ourselves. Because if we let that happen... if they ever leave it will tear us apart. We can't rely on them to be there to that degree because as a person we need to be whole to understand ourselves and we cannot have that burden be shouldered by our significant other. The love for the sake of having it or for the sake of feeling like you aren't broken... isn't going to last because it's not healthy in that way. It's nice to have someone... but it has to be for the right reasons and one must love themselves... before they can even begin to love another. Because if you can;t love yourself and everything about yourself... how can you truly love everything aobut another? Humans are infinitely flawed beings... we are never perfect and will never achieve perfection. But, that okay. Because our flaws are beautiful too. Because if they didn't exist there wouldn't be such a thing as strengths or the like. In their own way our flaws are also beautiful as the things that are our strengths and the things that make each of us unique. Because they also do this, flaws make us unique and who we are. They are our strengths if we look at them from a different angle and don't let them be flaws. I think understanding that is aprt to understanding what love is. It's loving everything... even what society would call a character flaw or something wrong with someone. And if one cannot accept or even love their own flaws... we won't be able to do that for another person's.

Not saying that's what you are saying mind you... it's just something I notice people fall into a lot of the time. They are more in love with the idea of love, or the idea of this person fixing all of their flaws that they lose sight of what it really is. I hate when that happens... because people do get hurt when it happens.

Of course... these are my beliefs so take them with a pinch of salt... but from my experience in this world... they are the conclusions I have drawn. Take them as you will lol.

I know, this is all true, I couldn't have said it better.

But yeah, I miss it but I have never sought out people specifically for the purpose of not being alone.

That's why I've been alone for so long.

You could call it waiting for the right person I guess.

[Darvan Korematsu]

Well to answer your question, quite frankly yes guys and girls do think differently. However it's how we were conditioned in our younger years to think, as shown by our guardians/parents, and our peers. No 2 people will of course be the same, and there's the usual stereotypes that apply to each gender on our thoughts and wisdom, but gender is just one factor. Stuff like our background, like our home life, wealth, friends, sexuality, etc. are all factors in how we think.

On the other hand, we know there are certain things that only apply to certain genders. For instance the stereotype of guys being relatively bullheaded is true to a degree. Only the "genetically superior" ones where their traits would have mattered when humans lived in caves. In another matter, as a guy, regardless if I was straight or gay or whatever in-between or off-shoot there is, I would never have to worry about bearing a child from a pregnancy, because dudes just can't get knocked up (unless we're in some strange topsy-turvy universe where it is backwards) and as such, it's a woman's job to bear the kid, and I just shrug and deal with it.

EDIT: Also we don't really need partnership, we need companionship, comradery, and socialization.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Darvan Korematsu

[anethia]

Your mistake was viewing people based on their gender. Someone is a human first, and their gender comes second. A human may think differently from another human.

[Felicity]

Fuck, I don't know. All I know is if you live life by the movies it never goes well. You ever tried leaping off a building to fly like Superman? What makes you think being a hero in any other way is plausible?

You do you, someone will like you. Hopefully in your case though you don't mess up enough for them to change sexuality like me.

[Imperial]

I was like you KingRyan. I'm kind of the cliché of the geek. Always in my room playing video games, rather solitary, and shy with people I don't know. Even studying electronics. Never had a girlfriend, influenced by the media (That may be one of the reasons I'm fan of Mass Effect (Tali <3)), and like you I was asking myself those questions.

5 years ago, after high school I started my studies in a new school. And I fell in love with a girl of my class, almost at the first sight. Wonderfull physically (probably the most beautiful girl I've ever seen) and through her personality (I'm sure she would love this forum where you're supposed to forget your sanity x) ).For the next three years I tried to attract her, unsuccessfully (we've been together during a month, but it was not really a success. Long story). She quickly became the best friend I've ever had, and I became her confident. During these three years I was in front row to see her with her boyfriends, leaving one for an other then returning with the first one, etc. . I let you imagine the torture it was. I was not with her, and as Tomas Elliot said, I was simply alone too. She often told me I would find someone for me, but at that time I didn't really believe it.

Then we both moved to other schools, in different cities. Some months later I met a girl of an other school of the city through an association. Cute, clever, kind, and as skilled as me in relationships. And without I even understand how it happened, we were in couple. Now were together for one year and a half. I moved to an other city for my last year of studies and we can see each other only one week other two. It's hard. And now I'll spend my days with a girl I already had a crunch on before I knew my girlfriend and who moved to the same school as me. Suddenly, the idea that used to be very attractive of having to choose between two girls is much less attractive...

All that to say it will happen someday. And if I learned something, it's you should forget the idea of waiting the perfect opportunity to seduce her, like being a hero. Instead, take every small opportunity to get closer, show you're kind, interesting, etc. Who you are. And be confident. Even if you're terrified inside, asking what the hell you're doing, just do it, ignore your fear

Edited August 27, 2015 by Imperial

[Juniper]

I was like you KingRyan. I'm kind of the cliché of the geek. Always in my room playing video games, rather solitary, and shy with people I don't know. Even studying electronics. Never had a girlfriend, influenced by the media (That may be one of the reasons I'm fan of Mass Effect (Tali <3)), and like you I was asking myself those questions.

5 years ago, after high school I started my studies in a new school. And I fell in love with a girl of my class, almost at the first sight. Wonderfull physically (probably the most beautiful girl I've ever seen) and through her personality (I'm sure she would love this forum where you're supposed to forget your sanity x) ).For the next three years I tried to seduce her, unsuccessfully (we've been together during a month, but it was not really a success. Long story). She quickly became the best friend I've ever had, and I became her confident. During these three years I was in front row to see her with her boyfriends, leaving one for an other then returning with the first one, etc. . I let you imagine the torture it was. I was not with her, and as Tomas Elliot said, I was simply alone too. She often told me I would find someone for me, but at that time I didn't really believe it.

Then we both moved to other schools, in different cities. Some months later I met a girl of an other school of the city through an association. Cute, clever, kind, and as skilled as me in relationships. And without I even understand how it happened, we were in couple. Now were together for one year and a half. I moved to an other city for my last year of studies and we can see each other only one week other two. It's hard. And now I'll spend my days with a girl I already had a crunch on before I knew my girlfriend and who moved to the same school as me. Suddenly, the idea that used to be very attractive of having to choose between two girls is much less attractive...

All that to say it will happen someday. And if I learned something, it's you should forget the idea of waiting the perfect opportunity to seduce her, like being a hero. Instead, take every small opportunity to get closer, show you're kind, interesting, etc. Who you are. And be confident. Even if you're terrified inside, asking what the hell you're doing, just do it, ignore your fear

I hope you know the difference between the words "attract" and "seduce"..

[Imperial]

I guess it's a subtility of english i don't know ?

Edit : someone explained me, and yes I should have used "attract"

Edited August 27, 2015 by Imperial

[Tomas Elliot]

Yeah I posted from my phone (and I still am posting from it) so I messed up my previous post... But I think you get what I meant to say ;-;

And thanks for explaining Ryan. And yes, I was familiar with that quote

[Kurotsune]

Yes, but not having someone and being happy is better than having someone and being miserable with them imo... Because we can't rely on another to fix ourselves of the things we perceive to be broken about ourselves. Because if we let that happen... if they ever leave it will tear us apart. We can't rely on them to be there to that degree because as a person we need to be whole to understand ourselves and we cannot have that burden be shouldered by our significant other. The love for the sake of having it or for the sake of feeling like you aren't broken... isn't going to last because it's not healthy in that way. It's nice to have someone... but it has to be for the right reasons and one must love themselves... before they can even begin to love another. Because if you can;t love yourself and everything about yourself... how can you truly love everything aobut another? Humans are infinitely flawed beings... we are never perfect and will never achieve perfection. But, that okay. Because our flaws are beautiful too. Because if they didn't exist there wouldn't be such a thing as strengths or the like. In their own way our flaws are also beautiful as the things that are our strengths and the things that make each of us unique. Because they also do this, flaws make us unique and who we are. They are our strengths if we look at them from a different angle and don't let them be flaws. I think understanding that is aprt to understanding what love is. It's loving everything... even what society would call a character flaw or something wrong with someone. And if one cannot accept or even love their own flaws... we won't be able to do that for another person's.

Not saying that's what you are saying mind you... it's just something I notice people fall into a lot of the time. They are more in love with the idea of love, or the idea of this person fixing all of their flaws that they lose sight of what it really is. I hate when that happens... because people do get hurt when it happens.

Of course... these are my beliefs so take them with a pinch of salt... but from my experience in this world... they are the conclusions I have drawn. Take them as you will lol.

You know how it goes, Hukuna. If we both participate in these discussions, we end up agreeing to everything.

But that's basically this. I don't like playing the "I'm really old" card, but seeing as I'm one of the few people here closer to thirty than their are to twenty, I can give you this bit of life experience:

Nearly every single person I've known in my life that has a stable, healthy relationship, were perfectly fine without it. Certainly most of them would now claim they couldn't live without their other half, but the important part is that they did.

Their lives up to that point wasn't about finding someone, it was rather about finding themselves. They found themselves, and the other person came along.

And while yes, I can quote examples for both people who are happy with themselves and never found a relationship and people who are absolutely miserable on their own and are currently in a healthy relationship (my best friend, for that matter) the great majority follow that basic rule. Find yourself, and the rest will follow.

[Doj]

This thread is funny tbh

[Shamitako]

now, i must ask a genuine question, that i am very serious about, and i do not mean to offend anybody by it, and if i do, i am sincerely sorry. Are girls any different thinkers than guys? And by that I always here that girls are more illogical and throw in their emotions into all their thoughts, but with what everyone above just said, that doesn't exactly seem true...Can anyone please enlighten me to the truth?

Well, there's no set rule as to how people have to think. But generally yes there's a difference in thought patterns due to different hormones and stuff, but genetics and societal influence hold a much greater hold over our thought processes than our genders. Like Huk said, everyone is different so there's really no "girls are this, guys are this" thing you can say and there's really no point in trying to. The differences you perceive are societal differences, not gender based and thus they only hold true over others who are on the society train

BTW "throwing your emotions into your thoughts" is completely logical. The illogical thing is trying to think unemotionally. Humans are emotional creatures and trying to avoid acting on those emotions simply doesn't make sense. In fact humans who are legitimately incapable of emotion, or have lower emotional capabilities, are considered to have mental disorders not be pinnacles of logical thinking. I learned that the hard way

I do disagree with the idea that you can't have a romantic relationship built on the idea of holding each other up. Though it is true that losing that relationship will tear you down again so it is a dangerous thing. But if you don't lose it then it will be an extremely strong relationship. It's sort of a high risk high reward type thing? (Also the only type of romantic relationship that I could ever be in due to reasons I don't wanna talk about here)

[Juniper]

This thread is funny tbh

Care to elaborate?

Personally I didn't notice anything funny other than a typo.

[Shamitako]

No, he doesn't, he's Doj. He's just saying that to aggravate you, ignore him

[Kiroen]

It's amazing to see that I'm terribly late to the thread, even though it was started today

There's something that has been said several times, but maybe summing it up in a short phrase will help: Don't look for potential lovers; look for potential friends. Even If it may sound contradictory, that mindset makes the process faster. By meeting more people, it becomes more likely that you find someone with whom a relationship may work (pure statistic); in the other hand, If you look for a potential lover, you'll be more likely to fall in love* with someone that wouldn't go out with you - thus getting you stuck in a non-relationship dynamic for some time.

(*I mean the "falling in love at first sight" way, which is usually unrealistic and impractical, since your mind fills the gaps that you don't know about the other person with an idealistic, but fake view).

As for the gender roles: while we, progressive, free-thinking individuals (so cliche) know that they suck and we'd be better without them, being a guy and being too shy or not being confident closes you a lot of doors (...not having self confidence is terrible in a lot of ways whatever sexuality you have, too, but back to the point).

On the another hand, a lot of hetero-normative couples don't work because they fall so deep in our societies' gender roles ( footballgetdrunkbeisbolmotorbikesgitdrunksportssportssportsgtednruk / suchfashionbuyclothesbeautymoreclothes ) that they eventually find out that they have nothing in common; they started going out because it was normal according to their society's myths, it worked because they liked sex, and once their jobs' stress takes that away, they find themselves stuck in a marriage with someone they don't really like that much, but the divorce means economic difficulties and problems for their children (If you think this is too cliche, you're lucky. My uncle (who is around his fifties) has very few childhood friends that haven't gone through this process already).

My conclusion on the matter is that it's unavoidable to go through some roles (unless you're lucky enough to find a really open-minded / intelligent / progressive partner), but basing your whole relationship on them is signing its own death sentence.

As to the idea that women are less intelligent, it's being proved wrong as time goes by. I can't find the source, but the following experiment was conducted: Group A and B have both male and female students. Both groups have to pass a test of mathematical and logical problems, but before the test, the Group A is told <<Women are statistically worse than men at math and science>>; while the Group B is told <<It is proven that women are statistically as good as men in math and science>>. In the results of Group A, male students got 10 out of 100 points than female students in average, while in the results of the group B, female students got 0,5 out of 100 points more than male students in average. It's a very small example of how the society's myths changes what people ends up being. Yes, you will find more successful male scientists and engineers, but the numbers will be balanced to perfect equality as soon as we start banishing these myths.

[Chase]

I wouldn't use open-minded, intelligent, or progressive as appropriate terms there, and I'm a woman.

Take the multiple studies over decades that stretch into today. I won't argue the "mental" side of the spectrum, but not everything is truly "mind-over-matter." Studies show that men generally have faster reaction times than women do. (remember, this is based on decades worth of studies.) - and it doesn't take long to notice that men and women are built differently. That doesn't make the genders unequal and it doesn't mean one gender can't do what the other cant vise versa, and even all inclusive - but there is no myth that biologically - men and women are different and as such different attributes trend greater or less than the other gender accordingly.

You'll have to forgive my interjection into your regularly scheduled programming, but as a complementarian myself, I don't think gender roles are as large of a looming issue so much as personal gratification is in that scenario.

The male seeks his own personal pleasure in athletics and alcohol. As a woman I happen to enjoy athletics and alcohol. People don't watch sports and drink because it's a "boys or girls only" social club. They do it because it's personally gratifying. Women and shopping? That's just a stereotypical hobby.

There are men who also enjoy going to the mall. None of those things in that scenario have anything to do with roles so much as they are largely stereotypical attributes. Stereotypes are in most cases offensive - and an often determined personal choice to uphold or abolish. Not merely gender conformity.

Taking it back to the topic - I'll posit that gender roles are not biologically antiquated - and should only be held in consideration if your personal belief system calls for it. The real issue is selfish living and negligence.

[Tomas Elliot]

Well yeah I agree with Hilda that gender roles are nothing but stereotypes. As I meantioned earlier, each person is different from any other, meaning everyone likes different things... So there might very well be a girl who likes soccer (introduce her to me please) and a guy who likes shopping. As a guy who was bullied for 19 years for liking "unmanly" things, I know one thing or two about this.

Geez, what a boring discussion tho: we all agree with one another and no flame war has erupted. It almost doesn't feel like the internet

Inb4 I get flamed for this joke...

[Shamitako]

Oh shut up Tomas, this discussion is clearly full of flaming don't be such a fucking idiot. This is the internet you troll, civilized discussions don't exist

(JKJK XD)

EDIT: Also, wait, girls aren't supposed to like soccer where you are? O_o

'Course around here nobody likes soccer. We all watch football and NASCAR

[Kiryuu]

Checking people's answers, I notice @Eternal Edge.....

OVER 1M POSTS

I just wanted to point that out...

Edited August 27, 2015 by Kiryuu

[Doj]

No, he doesn't, he's Doj. He's just saying that to aggravate you, ignore him

>WAAH IF ANYONE HAS A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN ME THEN THEY ARE A TROLL

This thread is funny because it's nothing more but lack of experience on OP's side. If he grows older, he will realize the truth behind all of it.

I won't post said truth because no matter how I word it, it will offend others or just downright break rules, because the truth about it is the complete opposite of what leftism tries to build in terms of equality (and Reborn's community just happens to be far left).

Don't knock yourself out overthinking it though, stick to "le trolle" resort for your own wellbeing ;^)

[Tomas Elliot]

Oh shut up Tomas, this discussion is clearly full of flaming don't be such a fucking idiot. This is the internet you troll, civilized discussions don't exist

(JKJK XD)

EDIT: Also, wait, girls aren't supposed to like soccer where you are? O_o

'Course around here nobody likes soccer. We all watch football and NASCAR

Nope, soccer generally bores girls. According to the cliché, they don't get the offside rule. Yes it is a very stupid cliché, yet in Italy it is so popular they actually had a tv show about it once, in which the wife of a soccer player tried to explain the offside rule to a bunch of uninitiated showgirls. And this extraordinary waste of national tv airtime was on the public television, meaning that we tax payers paid for it... That's Italy for you.

Also wow Eternal Edge o.o

EDIT: watch as Doj remedies to the lack of flaming...

[Shamitako]

Considering the fact that 99% of the stuff you say to me is literally just you trying to aggravate me I hardly find my assumption unfounded