Mortally Divine Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I just had a question, and I didn't exactly know where to ask it, but... How does the hidden power type get chosen for the AI trainers? Is is random? Is it pre-set? I was just curious, because for some reason... EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS FIRE, WHICH IS ULTRA ANNOYING ON A MONOSTEEL RUN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Important trainers are probably fixed. Are you talking about Noel? HP Fire on his Pokemon is almost certain a conscious design choice given his terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted December 27, 2014 Veterans Share Posted December 27, 2014 I just had a question, and I didn't exactly know where to ask it, but... How does the hidden power type get chosen for the AI trainers? Is is random? Is it pre-set? I was just curious, because for some reason... EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS FIRE, WHICH IS ULTRA ANNOYING ON A MONOSTEEL RUN. I'm pretty sure Charlotte's Volcarona is Supposed to have HP Rock and some other pokemon are supposed to have HP types to defend against their weaknesses.(The only reason i know that is because my honchkrow got hit hard by said Hidden Power...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 The HP types are manually selected for most important trainers, and I believe are actually even independent of the pokemon's IVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted December 27, 2014 Veterans Share Posted December 27, 2014 The HP types are manually selected for most important trainers, and I believe are actually even independent on the pokemon's IVs. Wait,so in x scenario:I'm facing Charlotte again and her Volcarona uses Hidden Power.Does that Volcarona have 31ivs across the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 Okay, but Noel having fire doesnt make a ton of sense, considering normal is weak to fighting. Shouldn't he have a psychic or flying hidden power type? I know his porygon-z knows psychic, and he has a girafarig and a swellow (I think). Ah well, Fern's Roserade ended up getting beat by a Klingklang using gear grind xD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Okay, but Noel having fire doesnt make a ton of sense, considering normal is weak to fighting. Shouldn't he have a psychic or flying hidden power type? I know his porygon-z knows psychic, and he has a girafarig and a swellow (I think). Ah well, Fern's Roserade ended up getting beat by a Klingklang using gear grind xD. It's a coverage thing more than anything probably. For those pesky Steel Types, that might otherwise wall him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 It's a coverage thing more than anything probably. For those pesky Steel Types, that might otherwise wall him. Okay.. but every single one of them ;-; ? Noel was almost as much of a nightmare as Kiki and her 100% accurate high jump kicks. It still feels like I cheesed Kiki by using protect to force her to miss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Okay, but Noel having fire doesnt make a ton of sense, considering normal is weak to fighting. Shouldn't he have a psychic or flying hidden power type? No, because a super-effective HP usually does less damage than a normal-effective STAB. Fire makes sense to cover steels and it gains a power boost from the terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 comparing damage between super effective HP against normal effective STAB; STAB is 1.5x, super effective is 2x. So if the power of the moves were the same, the HP would do more damage. Unless there's something else I don't know about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) comparing damage between super effective HP against normal effective STAB; STAB is 1.5x, super effective is 2x. So if the power of the moves were the same, the HP would do more damage. Unless there's something else I don't know about... The power of the moves are not the same. The STAB move is almost always stronger. The special normal-type STAB that most normal-types learn is Hyper Voice. Hyper Voice has 90 -> 135 BP after STAB. A super-effective HP Flying has 60 -> 120 BP after damage modification. Hyper Voice is stronger. Tri Attack has the same power in this case and so it still renders HP Flying redundant because Tri Attack has a chance for a secondary effect. In competitive battling, you never run HP just to cover a weakness because it'll usually do less damage than your STABs. In order to make running HP worthwhile, it has to hit a type for 2x damage that your STABs can't hit for 1x damage, or it has to hit for 4x something your STABs can't hit for 2x. HP is a really weak move. Edited December 27, 2014 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Alright, makes sense. So Ame predetermines the HP type of the important trainers, but that also makes me wonder; wouldn't a rock/ground type make a good wall against noel then? Minccino has bullet seed, but other than that I didn't see him use anything that would be good against that type, and his normal STAB moves would do .75x damage, 1.5x for STAB and 1/2 for hitting a rock type. a HP type of ground would be 2x effective towards rock, and also cover the steel type. Also, Noel's team doesnt know hyper voice IIRC, but I might've not seen their full moveset. I know that his minccino knows rock blast, bullet seed, (tail?) slap, and HP, and his porygon-Z knows discharge (f*ck you empoleon), HP, Tri attack, and psychic. I'm also surprised at how there wasn't a ghost type coverage? at least I didnt see one... I dunno, Noel in general just seems a bit strange to me... oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazmat Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Alright, makes sense. So Ame predetermines the HP type of the important trainers, but that also makes me wonder; wouldn't a rock/ground type make a good wall against noel then? Minccino has bullet seed, but other than that I didn't see him use anything that would be good against that type, and his normal STAB moves would do .75x damage, 1.5x for STAB and 1/2 for hitting a rock type. a HP type of ground would be 2x effective towards rock, and also cover the steel type. I'm also surprised at how there wasn't a ghost type coverage? at least I didnt see one... Noel had a Staraptor for Steel and Rock types which got replaced by a Wigglytuf apparently. Alhough he could have some Pokemon with HP Fighting but I´m not sure. Ghost Pokemon with secondary typing, which most people would probably use (Gourgeist, Shedinja, Gengar, Drifblim and Spiritomb) he has coverage. Gourgeist and Shedinja with HP Fire, Gengar with Psychic, Drifblim with Discharge and Thundershock and Spiritomb with Moonblast and Playrough. Edited December 28, 2014 by Yazmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) I like that his staraptor got replaced with a fairy type, him having 2 fairy types made the fight really easy. Escavalier had no problem 1 shotting his girafarig, wigglytuff, and clefable. Good point on the coverage though, I guess HP fire makes sense on some of his pokemon, but I still don't think all of them should have the same HP type IMHO it gives him a bit less coverage than he could have Edited December 28, 2014 by Mortally Divine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) I think Noel's team requires a bit of a different design philosophy than the other leaders because the Normal type has poor options for covering every potential threat. The Pokemon are also not very good in general - the only Normal-type currently in OU is Chansey, but Chansey is not so good of an option on an in-game opponent team because the AI isn't going to be able to use Chansey solely in her best competitive capacity. The one Normal-type that does come to mind is Snorlax. A Curselax set @Leftovers with 3 attacking moves could be strong, especially since the terrain adds 1/16 HP healing per turn on top of the Leftovers. I'm sure I've said this before, but I'm really puzzled by why Noel doesn't have a Pyroar, which benefits from the terrain in several ways - its STAB is boosted, it receives halved damage from Muddy Water, and its preferred HP type is also boosted. Edited December 28, 2014 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 idk, Noel gave me enough problems, but I do feel that using my main team ( or a team thats not monotype) I could've wrecked him easily. The only thing that was a problem in the first playthrough was a staraptor, which is gone now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted December 28, 2014 Administrators Share Posted December 28, 2014 Noel has historically been way too strong. The goal with the recent changes was to weaken him. I'm also holding back some things for future Normal-type battles. Also not all of his Pokemon run HP Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Noel has historically been way too strong. The goal with the recent changes was to weaken him. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY...............??? (falling in a pit of despair...) Edited December 28, 2014 by Alaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Noel has historically been way too strong. The goal with the recent changes was to weaken him. Aw, too bad. The fights with him were always incredibly fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaaz Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 We don't need weaker Gym Leaders we need stronger That's why we play Reborn otherwise there is the original games too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted December 28, 2014 Administrators Share Posted December 28, 2014 ..Okay. I accept that you guys appreciate a challenge, and that is in some sense what Reborn is here for, and that's lovely. But there's a fine line between being challenging, and being over the top. Noel crossed that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 I know minccino doesnt have HP fire, but I think every mon he has HP on is a fire type HP, am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted December 29, 2014 Administrators Share Posted December 29, 2014 Incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortally Divine Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 . Great, now you've made me curious as to which mon's HP type ISNT fire... and I don't have a save file near him. Anyone care to help xD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I always thought of Noel to be of moderate difficulty. In which episode did he lose his Staraptor? Wigglytuff seems like a chance to setup. Are any of the early gym leaders using HP? future normal battles=Elias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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