GotWala Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Honestly, I'd say the biggest turn-offs I have to anime come from how female characters are generally treated. Whether it's their appearance, personality, or role in the narrative, they almost always seem to be large-breasted, one-dimensional, damsels/sidekicks. Hell, it's gotten to the point where I'll usually just refuse to watch an anime if the breast sizes are too unbelievable, haha (I'm looking at you Sekirei...). I am also sickened by the concept of Harem anime, which just seems to reduce women into conquests or trophies to be obtained by some guy who hardly seems invested in who they are as a person. Now I know this forum thread is inevitably, somewhat an area of conflicting views, so I apologize if I offended anyone by rejecting the Harem "genre". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Honestly, I'd say the biggest turn-offs I have to anime come from how female characters are generally treated. Whether it's their appearance, personality, or role in the narrative, they almost always seem to be large-breasted, one-dimensional, damsels/sidekicks. Hell, it's gotten to the point where I'll usually just refuse to watch an anime if the breast sizes are too unbelievable, haha (I'm looking at you Sekirei...). I am also sickened by the concept of Harem anime, which just seems to reduce women into conquests or trophies to be obtained by some guy who hardly seems invested in who they are as a person. Now I know this forum thread is inevitably, somewhat an area of conflicting views, so I apologize if I offended anyone by rejecting the Harem "genre". Depends on the anime. The vast majority that I've seen are more or less about girls crushing over dudes because of something nice/touching that they did for them that the MC probably doesn't even remember. In very few are the guys actively trying to get the attention of more than one girl, so I find it odd that you say they're being treated as conquests or trophies when they're completely incidental. It's usually the main character's best friend who is the most lecherous for some reason. And the main male character usually has some kind of dysfunction that inhibits him in some way. Like an allergy to women and other ridiculous things. It's usually the female characters who are depicted as smart, strong, popular, or kind or any number of things that make them seem out of the main character's league. The idea is that they take someone who is apparently unremarkable and forgettable in most ways and put him in situations that exposes redeeming qualities. But I have to agree, Sekirei looks pretty ridiculous and haven't sat down and watched it myself. I've seen Love Hina, some Tenchi Muyo, some Girls Bravo, Kore wa Zombie Desuka?, vampire + rosario, for reference. SAO and HotD have some harem elements in them. Except for Love Hina, I did find them to be mostly meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotWala Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Hmm, that does make sense for some of them and I know the MC himself usually doesn't see it that way because of the type of character they usually are, but it just feels like those strong characters become almost sadly obsessed with some guy because he "did that thing one time at some point". I think the part that really bother me about some Harem anime is when an ending happens where the guy literally picks all of them. And then the girls are completely okay with that because "His love is too great for one person"? It's something about seeing what could be a strong female character completely lose a sense of self-respect when the MC is involved that really bothers me. I'm sure the are examples of a good Harem anime, but c'mon, the name even makes them sound despicable, haha. (By the way, that isn't a quote from anything in particular, haha) Edited October 28, 2014 by GotWala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 yall need black lagoon, ghost in a shell, and cowboy bebop to know what a real strong independent woman looks like. as for the harem genre... well im not really into that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted October 28, 2014 Support Squad Share Posted October 28, 2014 Here's one. GENDER RATIOS. DO 'EM RIGHT. That applies to more media than anime tbh but whatevs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Here's one. GENDER RATIOS. DO 'EM RIGHT. That applies to more media than anime tbh but whatevs This times infinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Because perfectly even m:f ratio happens all the time in real life. >> Can't remember a time when that happened. Although it does seem weird when there are all these women in military anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Because perfectly even m:f ratio happens all the time in real life. >> Can't remember a time when that happened. Although it does seem weird when there are all these women in military anime. This is what bothers me with SAO. Kirito's main nerd friends are like 90% female... For me, the ratio is like the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is what bothers me with SAO. Kirito's main nerd friends are like 90% female... For me, the ratio is like the other way around. This is implying SAO's generally on-point with anything anyway In terms of these ratios in anime, I have no problem with them at all so long as the ratio isn't being blatantly used for something bland (aka tons of fanservice). It's a fictional work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 yes animes knows their targets.. as for kirito, that guy changes his girls more than his clothes. the gender ratio in anime doesnt really bother me that much. you know what else grinds my gears? the princess peach or mary jane archetypes of the story. for some that formulas works, like yuyu hakusho, flame of recca, samurai x. you know why because the girls there are useful and only got kidnapped once..im looking at you inome(bleach) oddly ive never seen a girl rescues a boy in a anime before.. or am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The way for anime to actually not undermine the female gender aswell is simply to treat women normally as they create them instead of making them fill specific roles as they always had. It's a shame that some of society's views are being reflected in a medium meant for imagination and variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono-Explo Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I typically love to watch the kind of anime that has a sense of humour, but doesn't joke around too much. I like the balance between humour and drama, maybe some romance here and there but I tend to love those you can have a connection with, just some kind of innate feeling of enjoyment by watching it and the desire to just keep going, even if you've already seen it hundreds of times. I hate watching anything with Mechs. Just don't like 'em, I also dislike too much fanservice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I like it when they take some concept you take for granted and then change the circumstances so that it gains more importance and you look at it differently. For example, the way log horizon binds the mind to mp and the body to hp. And when you die your body is penalized in exp but your mind loses memories. I hate when power levels and shit escalate out of hand or when people never die because regeneration bs. Bleach. Characters like Luffy and that fire kid from fairy tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGlitcher Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I like it when they take some concept you take for granted and then change the circumstances so that it gains more importance and you look at it differently. For example, the way log horizon binds the mind to mp and the body to hp. And when you die your body is penalized in exp but your mind loses memories. I hate when power levels and shit escalate out of hand or when people never die because regeneration bs. Bleach. Characters like Luffy and that fire kid from fairy tale. I like OP(not so much the new animations that seems to hold to a lower standard to the manga) so maybe I'm somewhat bias, but Luffy from OP can't really be put in the same comparison as characters from Bleach or FT. Personally, Naruto is the one that comes into mind for what you have in mind, so well does Naruto fit your description that it's hard not to link them to one and another. On another note, I really miss the 'grit' in anime that I enjoy that most new animes just lack a great deal of the time. I do acknowledge it has a good deal to do with the graphics, though I'd be hard pressed to dismiss some other element that I just cannot name for the life of me, or perhaps one can dish the 'nostalgia' card on me for I don't understand myself as much as I like and maybe understood too much in areas I do not rather linger in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm not saying Luffy is op. That was a separate idea altogether. I hate characters like Luffy and the ft kid who eats fire. The Only one who pulled off the strong idiot well was goku. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted October 30, 2014 Support Squad Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm not saying Luffy is op. That was a separate idea altogether. I hate characters like Luffy and the ft kid who eats fire. The Only one who pulled off the strong idiot well was goku. Well, if it's "strong idiot", I'd argue that Bleachs Ichigo isn't a part of that. He certainly isn't an idiot like Luffy, Naruto or Natsu, although he does share some traits, such as insane stubborness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 No, bleach is part of the power escalation getting out of hand idea. He was a rather likeable protagonist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted October 30, 2014 Support Squad Share Posted October 30, 2014 No, bleach is part of the power escalation getting out of hand idea. He was a rather likeable protagonist. Oh yeah, but power escalation and stupid protagonists are two different issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGlitcher Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm not saying Luffy is op. That was a separate idea altogether. I hate characters like Luffy and the ft kid who eats fire. The Only one who pulled off the strong idiot well was goku. I didn't imply that you believe Luffy is op, just that your comment about an unstable and ill-balanced power scale and seemingly un-killable none critically essential characters are more relatable to animes such as FT and is a blatantly obvious aspect of Naruto. FT has an over abundance of nakama power situations and Naruto similarly has isolating power ups while I know characters in Naruto just won't die and stay dead and FT have enough nakama power to prevent such a thing. A lot of animes have this trait in varying scale including OP, but like I said earlier, I like OP so maybe I'm not as critical about it in the aspects pointed out above. Also, I'm somewhat unclear to how you define 'strong idiot', perhaps if you care to point out how it is with say, Luffy, Natsu, and Goku then I can better appreciate the point you are trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) the reason that Goku pulls off the 'strong idiot' quite well is because he was the first one to pull it off, I think most of the characters that Goku inspired(Naruto,Luffy,Natsu,Ichigo) is just a carbon copy of him to an extent. that's why i grew weary when lets say 'Naruto' gets ridiculously stronger and keeps pulling moves out of his ass to defeat his enemies, its nothing new anymore. that's why i prefer the badass member of the group rather than main protagonist. (Kid Gohan/Vegeta, Roronoa zoro, Kakashi, Zenpatchi,Roy mustang,insert FT char here). either way that's anime formula for you, the main protagonist always gets stronger as they face stronger antagonist along the way, it becomes repetitive as the story gets longer. Edited October 31, 2014 by typhlosionrulez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGlitcher Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 the reason that Goku pulls off the 'strong idiot' quite well is because he was the first one to pull it off, I think most of the characters that Goku inspired(Naruto,Luffy,Natsu,Ichigo) is just a carbon copy of him to an extent. that's why i grew weary when lets say 'Naruto' gets ridiculously stronger and keeps pulling moves out of his ass to defeat his enemies, its nothing new anymore. that's why i prefer the badass member of the group rather than main protagonist. (Kid Gohan/Vegeta, Roronoa zoro, Kakashi, Zenpatchi,Roy mustang,insert FT char here). either way that's anime formula for you, the main protagonist always gets stronger as they face stronger antagonist along the way, it becomes repetitive as the story gets longer. So if I understand you correctly, your take is that Goku is perhaps not so much a good 'strong idiot' but rather more valued in terms of being the earlier appearance of its kind. Thus placing historical influence and ingenuity above comparative qualities (i.e. not graphics if it's relatively old vs relatively new). That's one way of looking at it, but I enjoy looking at it in another way, which is Luffy is heavily leaning towards being an 'idiot' compared to Goku, while do to the layout of the story, power scaling is rather incomparable (OP is more over story typed while DBZ is more arc or episodic typed, thus appearance of powered characters are different in these two series), so I feel that Luffy is a better done 'idiot' than Goku while OP feels to have a more 'silly wacky' nature without loosing the seriousness of the story and characters than DBZ. That being said, I like DB more than DBZ for reasons that are irrelevant here and like a keep saying, I'm OP so some bias opinions could come out now and then but hopefully this is not one of those times. Your second point does not work so well for what you're trying to say, the only one really to work there is Roy (the only time is capabilities changed was when he got blind and in turn am able to work without the use of 'alchemy circles'), while kid Gohan and Vegeta did at least went through a period of growth, Zoro constantly gets stronger like Luffy and Sanji, Kakashi would of been fine until he went from struggling against now a day fodders to having a credible role in sealing the most op character in Naruto due to them eyes and supposedly having a not so high chakra reserve, Kenpachi is being more of his former self from not suppressing his own powers, and FT characters just need nakama power though they still do the same thing as the others. Usually, mostly intellectual based characters are better characters to prove your point, such as Toa Takuchi from Ones Outs, though he is the mc and many characters in FMA fits this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Well I suppose Goku did it right because he was always good at fighting and learning fighting stuff. He was just naive af and that never really changed. He was also didn't pull out really dumb ideas the way Luffy or the FT guy does (at least that I remember, Goku was kind of silly as a kid at times in DB). The other two are just outright dumb all the time, and the author thinks its humorous to make them that way and keep winning/ gaining new abilities and power, but I am not amused. NOT AMUSED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 And y'know there were even times where characters other than Goku actually saved the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGlitcher Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Well I suppose Goku did it right because he was always good at fighting and learning fighting stuff. He was just naive af and that never really changed. He was also didn't pull out really dumb ideas the way Luffy or the FT guy does (at least that I remember, Goku was kind of silly as a kid at times in DB). The other two are just outright dumb all the time, and the author thinks its humorous to make them that way and keep winning/ gaining new abilities and power, but I am not amused. NOT AMUSE Ok, I see now it is this certain balance of 'strong' and 'idiot' that you like as much as the amount of 'idiot' by itself that you judge Goku to be the better 'strong idiot'. In other words it's more subjective than objective. (I'm excluding FT from this since I do not see enough good in it to be judge at all, this is at least as objective as subjective on my part.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I watched 7 or 9 episodes of FT. I was astounded at how ridiculously mediocre it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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