Okay. I just wanna summarize everyone's views because this thread is getting overboard IMO. I still hold steady to all of my opinions I have said earlier but I just wanna say this because I am getting more and more annoyed this thread is progressing further. First. I agree with banning some of these pokemon as this kills creativity. It's basically building a set that takes next to no effort, slapping on a few filler pokemon to sub in and protect your overpower pokemon and completely whale the opposition. When people suggest to use this and that to counter this set, think about this for a minute. Out of how many people are gonna know that they are running a Swift Swim Ludicolo or Chandelure ST and will run a pokemon that has to counter it? Essentially, these pokemon are killing creative patterns of pokemon to use. This is why you don't see pokemon like Kyurem-B, Reuniclus, Amoonguss, and etc. running around in the Reborn Metagame because there are overpowered creations ruining it. Also, for people saying to "make better sets," frankly sir we are not you. It's wrong to assume we should make better sets in time because even with time we are gonna make a team that will flop and do terribly. These bans would at least be justified to at least appease to a more skill based meta. But to also be fair, this doesn't mean that we must ban the whole pokemon. Ludicolo is just fine without it's Swift Swim, FF Chandy is just fine, and SF Excadrill although a bit OP in concept will leave it open for many speedy threats to completely lobotomize it out. Think of it like this. Think of Toyman from the Justice League. He isn't very powerful at all but suddenly when he builds himself a giant movable death ray robot that he can manual control her can conquer all. Take that away from him and he's just another villain to fight. That's essentially what most of these threats are. Finally, with the rain, sand, and sun abusers. Who cares really? Frankily, we've had Volcarona, Keldeo, Landorus-I, and others swept under the radar because most were just focused on what is plainly broken. But, now after we've figured out what is broken we are soon gonna begin to wavering our fingers at what abuses the weather once we get rid of all the broken things. Why? Because of how damn competitive pokemon has become and how it is evolving with weather. Weather is a controversial subject and has brought many topics into hold of what is and what is overpowered. Most people would subject to say to just use Clear Skies tier but that's just a cunning way of saying you are an idiot for not noticing this to the competitive side. It would be nice if we could promote that style instead of using the weather as it does lead to more creativity, skill, and a bit of chance into building a set for the Reborn meta. The broken abusers stand out like a soar thumb but once we are done with those we are gonna start pointing our fingers to whatever a hyped up competitive person is constantly being killed by. The fact is, if we ban one thing, we are gonna get more stingy and grumpy about something else that's been killing off a lot of us. And that is what's leading to Landorus-I's ban and Keldeo's 2nd Suspect test in the meta besides Reborn and PO. I'm sorry for carrying this subject on like a dead horse while beating it with another dead horse but i'm just tired of seeing this. I just want this to end so we can start battling for fun and for keeps. Not for some ridiculous high score to reach or a reputation for being unstoppable. Sorry to ramble on about this, i'm outta here for good on this subject. Adios.