Void

u mad.

This shouldn't really be divided into "tiers", it's a guide to battling in general. With all the tier-specific content introduced as of late, something more universal like this was needed as well. Also, the fact that it was just an example aside, "birdspam" is simply a kind of hyper offense, which is a playstyle that exists in every tier. The concept of stacking mons with common checks in on a hyper offense team in order to wear said checks down (which is essentially what birdspam is) is also prevalent across the tiers, so I'd say that example is still relevant for tiers other than OU. In any case, it can sometimes be difficult to learn simply by reading a wall of text. A couple friends of mine have made some very useful narrated tutorials that go more in depth on some of the concepts touched on in this guide. I've asked Slant to add these links to the original post, watch them if you're interested: win conditions prediction in pokemon

i bet you think you're funny don't you

Actually, it is a major issue if it is luck. I've been participating in the tiering process on smogon since gen 4, and if there's one thing I can tell you, it's that one of the main aims of competitive pokemon is to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. Of course, some hax in unavoidable, but this is the reason why moody, double team, swagplay etc were banned. Greninja being unpredictable is exactly what makes it more luck based (note: "more". I'm not saying it is completely luck based and neither did the poster you originally quoted). Greninja runs maybe 2 staple moves and 5-6 viable coverage moves, a skilled player can identify maybe the 2-3 mons on his/her team that can switch into greninja's staple moves, but past that guessing whether or not greninja has the right coverage move to nail that mon has nothing to do with skill. This makes playing against greninja more luck based than playing against a mon like the Charizard Y you mentioned, who doesn't have nearly as many viable options. There is still skill in play, but your skill can only take you so far before luck comes into play. In the end, though, we're really just arguing semantics which isn't really related to the topic at hand. In the end, no matter how we reached that conclusion, it seems like we both believe Greninja deserves a suspect. If you have any more input regarding this, you're free to reply to me, but I won't be commenting on this topic anymore after this post. That's not a complex ban lol. Complex bans are non-straightforward bans, like on certain combos (like drizzle+swift swim in gen 5), or banning the use of an ability only for a specified pokemon (example would be banning speed boost blaziken but allowing blaze, this hasn't been done before and pretty much isn't done). Banning a megastone is considered a straightforward ban of the item, so it's not a complex ban.

You could have picked a better move if you guessed right, that is pretty much luck. Just because it isn't random doesn't mean it isn't luck. It's luck from the greninja user's point of view too tbh, whether his/her opponent guesses the right coverage move or not. I mean, if you have no knowledge, what else is there to base your decision on? You just have to hope the move you picked is the right one, that has nothing to do with skill really. I wasn't using guessing/coinflip interchangeably btw, looks like that's how you took it. By coinflip predictions I meant 50/50s.

It is luck from the player who is playing against greninja's point of view. Your opponent's moveset is beyond your control, in the end you're pretty much guessing what moves it runs. You can't say it was within the player's control to pick a better move when there was no way for he or she to know what that better move was. A lot of people seem to be unable to distinguish between skillful plays and guessing/coinflip predictions tbh.

you could try this over your current bisharp to make a it a more solid answer to lati@s Bisharp @ Assault Vest Ability: Defiant EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 SpD Adamant Nature - Knock Off - Sucker Punch - Iron Head - Pursuit otherwise LO latios draco meteor is a 2hko, forcing you into a 50/50 (sucker predicting the attack or pursuit predicting the switch) against it every time

Whether it should be banned or not is debatable, but I think it definitely deserves a suspect.

in the christmas spirit of giving, i request a team with this dumb bird :] Delibird @ Choice Band Ability: Hustle EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature - Present - Ice Shard - Ice Punch - Focus Punch

the band was formed in australia lol

i just 6-0d kamina while he was using the team he used in this tour, so therefore i proclaim myself the true winner of this tour :] http://pastebin.com/y4UDsZSf

megamence is 100% guaranteed going to be banned. it's already banned on PO, smogon are just waiting for ORAS to become the 'official metagame' before proceeding with bans.

you wot

i'll be getting this moolah

reborn tiers are ubers and not real!

Is there a prize for winning this?

Did anyone actually understand a word of that?

I'm not sure what makes you think Mamoswine is the biggest threat to this team when Rotom-Wash is one of the best answers to Mamoswine out there.

Defog removing your rocks is rather annoying, but since you run a bulky rock setter like Ferrothorn rather than on an offensive mon, it should fine as you'll have plenty of opportunities to set up rocks throughout the game. You could try both Latias and Latios in that spot really, I just thought that the extra offensive power of Latios would be nice on this team as you otherwise do slightly lack power on the special side. Latios gets Roost as well btw, so if you want to give up earthquake for the sake of being a more solid answer to Keldeo, you could go for that. One other thing you could try if you go for Latias instead is Healing Wish (Latios does not get this). Especially if you decide to stick with EQ > Roost on Charizard, this means you can have two shots at a sweep with Charizard by getting it back up to perfect health.

Just as a starting note, this really isn't even close to semi-stall. The only pokemon running sets you'd find on stall here are Chansey and Ferrothorn, and there is no toxic on anything on this team, only 1 mon carries a status inflicting move and it's a trick specs user. On top of that, nothing other than Chansey has any means of reliable recovery. This is not an issue with your team per se, I just don't see how you could possibly define this as 'semi-stall'. Now, on to the real issues I have noticed with this team. You have no answer to Keldeo. Nothing on this team counters or even checks it. Specs Keldeo OHKOs or 2HKOs everything on this team with either secret sword or hydro pump, so you'd basically have to predict the correct move every time to prevent something from dying every time it comes in. Variants like Sub CM Keldeo just run right through this team as well. I know that this is gen 6 and you can't have safe switches for everything, but when it comes to a top-tier ultra-popular S-Rank viable mon like Keldeo, you've got to have something that can take it. The other main issue is that you have nothing to break through stall. Zard X is your best bet for wallbreaking, but no semi-decent stall team isn't going to carry checks for zard x, and looking at the rest of your team you have no other way to wear down the aforementioned checks. You can at best cripple one thing with trick specs, which will most likely be a chansey or something rather than a zard x check. My first suggestion would be to take Chansey off this team, and replace it with Calm Mind Clefable. Chansey is just so out of place on this team, especially with the set you're running. You've got the volt turn core thing going on, everything else on this team can dish out hits pretty well, and then you've got this thing that can just take hits and do nothing in return. It doesn't carry twave or toxic, stoss is a 3 or 4 hit ko on most stuff at best. Basically complete set-up fodder, and every time you go into Chansey it wastes any momentum you build with this team. CM Clefable helps solve the stall issue, while also acting as your status absorber for burn/poison. Having a cleric is nice and all, but in XY OU, you need to differentiate between what's needed and what's just nice to have. Clefable @ Leftovers Ability: Magic Guard EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD Calm Nature - Calm Mind - Moonblast - Soft-Boiled - Flamethrower ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Next, to combat the Keldeo issue, I would suggest Latios over Excadrill. Latios @ Life Orb Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Hasty Nature - Draco Meteor - Psyshock - Earthquake - Defog Earthquake hits ttar, bisharp and heatran nicely. Luring in the latter two is especially great for you, as that helps open up a sweep for Clefable. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now that you've got such a great heatran lure with EQ latios, I'd run the bulky DD zard x with Roost instead. Charizard @ Charizardite X Ability: Blaze EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe Adamant Nature - Dragon Dance - Dragon Claw - Flare Blitz - Roost I'm not really sure what makes you think this thing can't take hits, zard x is so bulky that defensive zard x is gaining popularity on stall teams. Roost is great here because it allows you to come in with zard mid-game, get off some flare blitzes to weaken the opponent's team, then heal it off the next opportunity you get to make it easier to sweep late game. It also means your opponents can't check it by simply wearing it down with repeated attacks. You don't really need EQ anymore because EQ Latios lures in tran and tyranitar, putting them both in range for you to KO with a +1 dclaw (OHKOs less defensive heatran sets, of course). This set also beats Clefable, as it can't really touch you in your base form, allowing you to set up as many DDs as possible. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since you have an extremely effective stallbreaker now in the form of Clefable (not to mention DD roost zard is far more effective vs stall than DD 3 attacks), you no longer need to run trick specs on Rotom. You also already have Latios to bring the power special attacking wise, plus choiced rotom isn't the best this gen as getting locked into the wrong move can mean serious repercussions. Overall I think the defensive rotom set serves this team far better, the added bulk making it a much more effective check to stuff like talonflame. Run a 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe spread with a Bold nature, with Pain Split over Trick and Leftovers over Choice Specs (obviously). Now that you have the physically defensive Rotom, I'd also run a mixed bulk EV spread on Ferrothorn to allow you take special hits a bit better, especially considering this is now your main fairy check. Maybe you could try 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD at first, then adjust it as you see fit after playing some games with it. I'd also go with Gyro Ball over Power Whip as all variants of Gliscor lose to either Clefable, Rotom or Latios. Of course, with that comes changing your nature to Relaxed as well as setting your speed IV to 0. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unaware Clefable is still a bit of an annoyance to this team now, but you can manage to take that down with a combination of rotom WoW, ferro leech seed and hitting it hard with zard or landorus or something. Overall I believe my changes will help you combat far more threats, even if certain mons become slightly harder to take on. So, should you decide to implement/try out my suggestions, the team would look something like this: good luck, hope these changes work out for you n_n

I actually suggested a specially defensive spread on scizor, so that covers that. Eats up lati@s dmeteors very nicely. It's obviously not as specially bulky as snorlax, but overall I feel it'll serve this team a lot better. EDIT: Ah, I wasn't aware you had tbolt>volt switch on rotom. I would go for volt switch, yeah.

This team does have a few problems, I'll try to patch them up without changing the team around too much. I'll begin by listing the two main issues this team has, then I'll list my suggested changes. The first is that is that you're trying to run a hyper offense with mons that are honestly way too slow to pull it off effectively. Everything on this team is base 101 speed or below. A team that is neither particularly fast nor particularly bulky just isn't going to work very well. I could maybe understand if you had plenty of priority on this team, but the only priority move you carry is bullet punch on scizor. The second is that you have 3 SR weak pokemon (volcarona is doubly weak in fact) with no means of hazard control. In a metagame where nearly every team carries rocks, that's obviously not good. One smaller issue is your lack of stealth rocks. While it isn't exactly a necessity, SR is such a useful move (allows you to break sashes, helps to check big threats like talonflame and zard) that you really should generally make a point of putting it on teams. Now, on to the changes. My first suggestion would be to run a bulky defog mega scizor over your current offensive one. This gives you a way to get your opponent's rocks off the field, and it forms a nice volt-turn core with Rotom-W. Scizor @ Scizorite Ability: Light Metal EVs: 248 HP / 96 Atk / 164 SpD Adamant Nature - Roost - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Defog ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Next, I'd suggest a rock setting Landorus-T over Snorlax. Snorlax is honestly very out of place on a more offensive team like this, as every time you go into it any momentum you've managed to build up for yourself is completely wasted. Landorus-T is a good option since you have a defogger, a bulkier rock setter who will last a while is what you need. Also becomes a third volt switch/u-turn user on this team. Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe Impish Nature - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - U-turn - Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Knock Off ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Next would be changing your Thundurus-T to a Thundurus-I. This team needs the extra speed, plus prankster Thunder Wave helps your team out immensely by crippling your opponent's faster mons as well as acting as an emergency check to stuff like mega gyara. Thundurus @ Life Orb Ability: Prankster EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Thunder Wave - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power Ice - Focus Blast ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, I'd suggest a Choice Band Dragonite over your current set. I feel this team needs more immediate power, and with the para support from Thundurus this thing will wreck. Dragonite @ Choice Band Ability: Multiscale EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Outrage - Extreme Speed - Fire Punch / Thunder Punch - Superpower ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A minor nitpick would be the hidden power type on your Volcarona. Hidden Power Water is honestly doing pitiful damage on heatran (spdef heatran is the most popular) and effectively hits both zards for neutral damage, so pretty useless there. I'd go for either ground or rock depending on which one you think is the bigger threat. Anyway, the new team should look something like this: Importable: I've basically added two bulky pivots in Lando-T and the edited Scizor set, both can take as well as dish out hits very well, and both carry u-turn which helps to preserve offensive momentum. I've also added more speed with Thundurus-I, and more priority in the form of extremespeed and prankster t-wave. Hope these changes work out for you. Good luck :]

this man watches fucking nascar are you serious,,,,

i'm in hehe bwoi :]

yeah i'll be dropping out as well, no time to make a new team every week anymore lol