Started a fresh game at long last, why are so many things changed?

[sersafir]

My previous computer died, and I was very far in. I think it was about ~2-3 years ago so tons of my data was lost.

 

Anyway; I've noticed a massive change in the game.

 

Prologue:

Spoiler

The prologue ship feels like it was fast forwarded. You spend much less time backtracking and exploring, it feels smaller, and less characters seem to die onscreen. I recall you could visually see a lower floor from a higher floor, now it's been replaced with a shadow. What made the original a bit more cinematic was seeing the exact area you end up in toward the end... where the piano lady saves you.

A couple lost features I miss:

Spoiler

I remember a while back there was a pokemon trainer you could fight once a day at the East Gearen Lab, I forgot what she had... But she would only fight you with one pokemon, but every time she did she'd get a bit stronger. It was a nice way to grind a tiny bit of cash early and it was kinda cool having a pseudo-rival to challenge every day.

 

There was also that scientist that put you into a dream world so you could re-catch shadow pokemon based on what rifts you opened.

First 4 chapters:

Spoiler

Venam's undergone a massive change. Originally, as I recall, she went into the sewers at chapter 3 because it was a recently discovered area and Venam wanted to extort the owner of the mansion for "protection fees." The man (Indriad) was initially just asking them to leave him in peace. After Venam insisted, he imprisoned the whole cast and Melia's alternate universe version Marianette rescues the mc, the mc proceeds to rescue Venam and the gang. The guy kept insisting it was dangerous and kept wanting to leave, but Venam wouldn't listen. She got the lion's share of the blame after it was over too. Then the gang talks about how much they despise Venam's decision, and they effectively disavowed her as a friend. 

 

Now, in the newer version, she goes there as a result of "ghost trees" destroying the town as the worlds go at odds with each other. The characters don't even disparage her decision. In fact, both of them seem to have lost most of the screen time and character development I remember. It feels like a much more lighthearted hero version of the previous story.

 

The first test to free them was originally to guess which of the 4 Venam's was the real one. As I recall it was the selfish one that basically didn't care much about the characters and was still bitter about Melia's death. In a way, her character was no longer a silly cookie cutter hero, but a flawed, miserable person, who wears a mask of happiness to fool others. I remember disliking her a bit from that, but objectively speaking, she was a more fleshed out character. For whatever reason this test was skipped in the latest version. And I recall in the dialogue Marianette says "Yes! We've passed the second test!" But we just passed the first!?

 

I was, (again recalling years ago,) literally jailed in Goldenleaf town a while back. Mosley comes when I've first been framed, before imprisonment. Having Nancy's Ghost show up after beating Narcissa was a nice touch.

Chapter 5:

Spoiler

Chapter 5 went down way differently. Originally you couldn't use your pokemon at all except outside the field. There was no fighting ring or prestige room. Melia originally was not the friendly character she was before. She voluntarily worked for the warden. She emotionally torments you by marching a thoroughly broken and tortured Aelita, humiliating her in front of your cell. What's strange is she doesn't even studder for this exchange, she seems completely fine with what she's doing. There was no trace of her brighthearted personality, she got into the role of prison guard quickly. In fact, Emma did almost nothing to help you as I recall, although she did try. For the most part she is complacent with the torture. The hood doesn't come off, Emma's identity is a (little) bit harder to guess at. Emma does apologize eventually and this is the result:

 

The new version is much more sympathetic to her. She volunteers to work for the warden, then the route changes. She takes risks, desperately trying to help the main character. She didn't humiliate the girl in front of him/her anymore. In fact, she had no idea he would involve himself in torture. 

There's also a subtle difference here and there. When the rumor spreads about Emma working for the Warden, she sits completely alone, all other prisoners keep away. A really nice touch if you were paying attention. Aelita's anger at her in the next scene makes a bit less sense. 

 

You can ask Melia, "you came to save me?" And she'll respond "Of course! No matter what circumstance! Through time and space I'd never abandon you! You are my trusted friend and I won't ever forget what you've done for me..."

 

I think this one makes a bit less sense honestly. We've known Melia for like 2 days and had 1 picnic. We're not THAT close yet are we?

 

The way Nancy was killed off in the original story was a bit more dramatic. Madam X tried to kill you, and she got in the way. A device that sends all the islands electricity paralyzes her though and stops her from killing you. Then they leave. I was like, "OK, so let's just leave a level 65 sylveon for Team Xen because why not?" FFS let's at least take the body so we can have a proper burial.

 

The newer ending makes MUCH more sense though. Her death is a bit more cowardly. Still though, it doesn't make sense why she (Madam X) can't simply fly over the battleship (unless you won that battle I suppose... but even then it wouldn't surprise me if Madam X could just leap onto the ship.)

 

When asked if rescuing the mc was her biggest reason for being there, she responds:

Originally I think she said she had no idea the mc was there. She was sent to investigate the area. I don't even know why she's apologizing in the new version, she does nothing wrong. The original story had a somewhat half-assed apology, where she said "sorry BUT I had to make it look real." The new one has her apologize like 5 times for saving us?

 

She's much more innocent and likable in the newer one tbh.

Ch 6:

Spoiler

When Nim was captured in the original I temporarily ragequit the game. Not because she was captured. Because after winning the fight they took a 200-300 pound statue and ran away with it without any pokemon to support them while Melia(I think?) said "we can't let them get away with this!" I mean... we literally just did let them get away with it. The Girtana last resort summon made this much, MUCH, more bearable as a scene, added to the fact that the mc was warped in a carnivine portal too. I also recall that the whole segment I wasn't allowed to go back to gearen for a bit. The gang was deadlocked on the island.

 

There are moments like this in the new one. We can't capture Ren even though we beat him in battle. He just walks away. And Melia just asks for answers.

 

I also remember that being a much, MUCH slower paced part of the game. I got lost in the forest a dozen times searching every which way because I was too stubborn to just use a guide. 

Another thing I recall that went differently: Erik's love letter quest ended in failure in my previous run.

 

Honestly it feels like an almost entirely new game, which makes resetting feel much nicer!

 

Much of the story so far is similar, but far less dark and gloomy. Each area feels a bit more episodic with how quick the pacing has changed.  Personally I think it's mixed. For every reason I find that I might dislike the changes I find another reason that I like them. Overall I am definitely having fun and thanks for so many of the nice changes!

 

How does everyone feel about the changes?

[Simu]

I agree with you for the chap 4 and 5 point, I restarted the game too and saw the differences, at first I thought that her identity was just obvious to me because I already played the game before and knew how it would end but you reminded me of how it played out before V13, overall the new update made the game less "extreme" maybe the newcomers will like it better that way, well at least now nobody will complains that it's too edgy now.

There's been some other change If I'm not mistaken

Spoiler

-Nim used to say that you were the only one that tried to save her at Valos mountain, I don't remember how things turned out here but in the new version you're not the one trying to free her it's Melia
-The french girl being hanged at Goldenleaf Town

Well I guess I'm gonna just play the old V12 so I can check the differences side by side

I love the new maps tho, that's a welcome addition, and like you already said it gives replayability

[Calentz]

Spoiler

Really?  For Venam's mansion test I picked the one where she said she doesn't blame us for Melia's death and it basically told me that was the right choice.

As to why you begin the mansion quest in the first place, personally I like the new version better.  Minus Venam's growth as a person, it didn't make much sense to me at the time that we went back to gearan from goldenleaf to get venam's help because Ren activated a metal gate at the entrance of goldenleaf, then drops a 'totally not on purpose' hint that venam's poison pokemon can melt the bars.  It just seemed arbitrarily silly to me at the time since the player at this point potentially has several pokemon that could do the job just as well.  It felt like some sort of gimmick that the original games would pull, like 'oh no it's a tiny bush you require cut for' syndrome except in this case it was literally included in the main story and dialogue. 

[sersafir]

3 hours ago, Calentz said:

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Really?  For Venam's mansion test I picked the one where she said she doesn't blame us for Melia's death and it basically told me that was the right choice.

As to why you begin the mansion quest in the first place, personally I like the new version better.  Minus Venam's growth as a person, it didn't make much sense to me at the time that we went back to gearan from goldenleaf to get venam's help because Ren activated a metal gate at the entrance of goldenleaf, then drops a 'totally not on purpose' hint that venam's poison pokemon can melt the bars.  It just seemed arbitrarily silly to me at the time since the player at this point potentially has several pokemon that could do the job just as well.  It felt like some sort of gimmick that the original games would pull, like 'oh no it's a tiny bush you require cut for' syndrome except in this case it was literally included in the main story and dialogue. 

Yeah, I agree with that. But there's also another plot hole as a result.

Spoiler

East Gearen is right next to West, which has trainers 3 times stronger than you. There's very little reason I can think of for why, if there's a mass crisis occurring, they'd all just ignore it, given that if it's spreading it can spread to them. So while it removes that plot hole, it adds another. I mean, why are we the only ones, who somehow know about the hole, why don't we regroup and ask for reinforcements from other locations? Instead of having Aelita and the cop just chilling out nearby that's what I think they should do.

 Also:

Spoiler

Yes, it told me my choice was correct as well. She was mad the protagonist overcame Melia's death and got him/herself together while she just moped about.

 

[BJ7171]

24 minutes ago, sersafir said:

 

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Yes, it told me my choice was correct as well. She was mad the protagonist overcame Melia's death and got him/herself together while she just moped about.

 

I'm pretty sure that there is no wrong answer for when you're supposed to pick the true venam.

[pizzagod13]

I like the new changes quite a bit, it makes the story flow better and I would say is mostly an improvement. It sometimes creates some more plot holes, but the fact that "why are the strong characters not doing anything?" is a plot hole that could be applied to like 90% of the story. 

 

I think the story is better overall but the changes are not without flaws. 

[Calentz]

2 hours ago, sersafir said:

Yeah, I agree with that. But there's also another plot hole as a result.

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East Gearen is right next to West, which has trainers 3 times stronger than you. There's very little reason I can think of for why, if there's a mass crisis occurring, they'd all just ignore it, given that if it's spreading it can spread to them. So while it removes that plot hole, it adds another. I mean, why are we the only ones, who somehow know about the hole, why don't we regroup and ask for reinforcements from other locations? Instead of having Aelita and the cop just chilling out nearby that's what I think they should do.

 

 

Spoiler

It's made a point in the story that West Gearan and East Gearan like to stay separate for reasons that are explained in the story, despite technically being the same town just separated by a long bridge (long enough that it took the MC, Melia and Venam a decently long boat ride to cover the distance) I'm sure there are other examples of places that despite literally being a life or death situation they would rather take a 'wait and see' approach before getting themselves involved, even when that situation potentially threatens themselves if nothing is done.  As for gathering others to help it could be that people where afraid it would take too long, not a good reason but i'm just throwing it out there.

I also agree with @pizzagod13 for the 'why aren't stronger people helping'? point.  Levels of opponent's pokemon levels are more for your progression in the story imo, otherwise it would seem awfully convenient that all the people you are capable of fighting when you start off and reach each new area are just about as strong as your mc at the time.  With a few scripted exceptions such as Madame X to show how powerful they are.

But again, the plot is not without flaws.  It could be that in an effort to make some parts 'make more sense' they open up new aspects that others might not agree with.