Eviora Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It seems to me that "deserve" entails some element of the ideal. You don't say someone deserves to die of a terminal disease just because they contracted one. They're more likely to, sure, but they don't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It seems to me that "deserve" entails some element of the ideal. You don't say someone deserves to die of a terminal disease just because they contracted one. They're more likely to, sure, but they don't deserve it. ...You're the one who said deserve though. Kuro's response was trying to make the point that these things were inevitable, not something anyone made a conscious choice on or that is somehow deserved or undeserved All you're really doing here is twisting Kuro's words on a technicality instead of responding to the argument xe made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviora Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'm saying that no one should be drafted because I'd expect people to actually be willing to fight for their freedom. If you aren't willing to fight for your freedom, then you deserve to be ruled by a tyrannical dictator who will leave you much worse off. The bold is mine, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darvan Korematsu Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 You know what? Mods I am absolutely tired of this shit. Eviora you are literally contrbuting absolutely god dang nothing new to this conversation. Not to mention you are arguing in circles. You're only getting preachy and stuck up with your own so-called values. I would normally respect anyone's opinion around here, but literally pretty much everyone is against you here. It's not even about the God damn Draft anymore, because you have reduced this argument to nothing more than incoherent bickering between you and the others against you. What I find ironic about this is if you're using a computer and Internet, you most likely live in a democratic country where you are given multiple freedoms that many foreign citizens could only hope for. The fact you're just absolutely denouncing a chance to defend what someone can and most definitely would take from you is abhorrent. That you'd give up and surrender so easily like a dang pansy. When some jihaddist or insurgent or other influenced person invades your home and slits your throat when you could have utterly destroyed them otherwise is just foolish. It'll be too late to regret your thoughts and actions then. Like there is little to no respect in these and it is absolutely painful to watch you shoot down every little quote with some anarchist bullcrap. When you said you don't even need to include women in your response I knew immediately it was gonna go to shit fast. We don't need it here. Dear mods, please shut this damn thread down. It has clearly worn out it's debate. I'm sorry but some of us actually care about what we live for and would be willing to die for it if worst came to worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I, don't think making a public rant like this is the proper way to ask for a thread to be closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darvan Korematsu Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'm sorry Lexi. It's just not even productive anymore. Please just put this poor thing out of its misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhi Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Alternatively, report the posts in question that are off-topic rather than rant about them. I expect an Ace Member would know this. This is the first and final warning to keep posts on the topic of women's roles regarding the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Don't apologize to me, I don't really care. I just don't think you should be calling someone out like that. It's not very nice and also not very within the rules EDIT: Oh, sorry Arkhi, your post didn't pop fast enough. I can delete this if you want (Or you can, whatevs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Okay, I'm going to try and put this more back on topic. The draft, like war, is a necessary evil and isn't going to go away so there's no point on arguing whether or not it's right or wrong. One thing that kind of got glazed over this is that the draft is discriminating against women. It's basically saying that only men need to fight for the country which is kind of weird when you think about it. Feminists have been fighting for equal pay for women as well as in sports due to how individualistic we are. The individual is more important than the family. If it was the other way around, I could justify women not being forced to join the army, but that's not what our country is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 The bold is mine, of course. It's how life works. Bad people do exist, if you're not willing to fight them yourself then do you deserve the freedom from those who are willing to fight should your backs be up against the wall? It comes back to if the need arises. As many have mentioned before a draft is a last resort, if you're not willing to answer the call to fight for your own freedom when there's no other option, then you do not deserve to be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurotsune Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Personally, I feel we've shown an inability to discuss a serious matter in a mature manner without any type of altercation occuring. If I may suggest, I'd henceforth propose such threads stay in the ace-only area, if any, in an attempt to minimize the aggravation. Or ideally, the creation of a debate subforum with it's own rules so that this can be better managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviora Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It's how life works. Bad people do exist, if you're not willing to fight them yourself then do you deserve the freedom from those who are willing to fight should your backs be up against the wall? It comes back to if the need arises. As many have mentioned before a draft is a last resort, if you're not willing to answer the call to fight for your own freedom when there's no other option, then you do not deserve to be free. Huh. Well, I certainly agree that those unwilling to fight for their freedom are more likely to lose it. But I'm not entirely sure if you're using "deserve" just to highlight that likelihood, or whether you would actually elect for people too cowardly to defend themselves to not be free in an ideal world. I'm probably coming off as pedantic - probably because I am pedantic - but the distinction seems quite critical to me. Either way, to clarify, are you saying a conscientious objector doesn't deserve to be free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurotsune Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 In a way, they don't. If we are to say that you "deserve" the consequences of any choice you make, then someone who objects to fight knowing it'll lead to oppression "deserves" oppression as they willingly did nothing to try to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'm going to lock this thread. It was my thread, and it's also got way too out of hand. I was more critical and more strongly opinionated than I often am, so this is partly on me. Regardless, we are not getting anywhere anymore and it has just come down to a difference of opinions and butting heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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