Chase

Azery ZIP IT NOBODY'S SUPPOSED TO KNOW CROBAT IS GOD TIER YOU-.... ahahaha......ahahahahahahaha......

Kricketune takes a SERIOUS drop-off as the game progresses, as opposed to Hariyama having multiple opportunities to shine throughout the entire course of the game. (Hariyama is a very solid -- albeit outlandish -- option for Charlotte -and- Blake, especially if mitigating it's speed issue by pairing with a Trick Roomer or finding a Pokemon to Belly Drum set-up on.) There's a stretch of game where Hariyama isn't an All-Star, but rather than being vulnerable and eventually not being enough of a Technician to keep up, Setting up on it's own and being able to take hits for days allows Boppoyama some grace. Knock Off and Guts render it useful against Shade, and Thick Fat Hariyama has some real longevity as there are critical battles in the -late- game that would appreciate the bulk. Kricketune eventually is too frail and -just- not strong enough on the first Fury Cutter to keep it's worth- but I feel like the only reason Hariyama gets the PC Box is it's speed is offputting in comparison to later Fighting types. I've come up with a few categories to consider placing Pokemon into. Niche-use only, Rotational, and Staple. Niche-onlys would be your Gigalith's and Kricketunes of the world. The Pokemon that wouldn't see much use in -any- Pokemon game and would seemingly suffer bad luck of the draws in some stats and ability-wise, but there's that -ONE- area would where the Pokemon can shine. Rotational Pokemon - HARI. YAMA.....at WORST. The way the game's gyms fall, this thing, and several other Pokemon, can be PC'ed momentarily and brought out for some training up for a later contest. These Pokemon are not terrible, but tend to be not the poster mon for their purpose as more 'staple' pokemon are. Staples are your Pokemon that will be useful from Peridot to Ametrine, without any area in which they are completely overshadowed. These Pokemon are the ones you simply never put in the box. I guess Flaming Chicken of Simplicity goes here.

Yep, that would make the Trick Roomer the critical piece of the puzzle there, not Gigalith. I know that Gigalith is an absolute force - under the right conditions. Against a Fire-type user with -much- needed Trick Room support, Gigalith is a Pokemon that can find a -small- nitch in the game as viable Pokemon. You wouldn't use Gigalith against Amaria even if it had Trick Room support. Neither would you use Hariyama extensively against Radomus or Ciel for the same reason - and if the game is causing you to shuffle your roster, that is very much the intent of the game designer. To cause the player to adapt constantly. Admittedly, there will always be answers - but that comes with making the game beatable in the first place. To put this in perspective I was arguing about allowing the player's efforts to justify the completely swamping of Kiki with regards to Zubat being placed -just- outside her doorstep in Apophyll Cave using the premise that it takes CONSIDERABLY less individual effort to catch a Ghost type Pokemon and raise -it- to a point where it shuts down Medicham with Will-o-wisp and vastly decreases the difficulty of the leader as a result. The argument didn't work. Because Will-o-Wisp is being used strategically to lessen the threat, it's more optimal then allowing a leader to be absolutely steamrolled without any set-up at all. It would seem that this kind of game play is encouraged over spending individual effort grinding up 'Mons that would just roll right through. Hence, the player will have to make the decision if the struggle is -worth- continuing to play the game for. It's not a matter of our favorite Pokemon NEVER being added - because all Pokemon will be available near the end of the game. The game encourages perseverance and strategy, and it makes any kind of progress -feel- rewarding. Even against battles such as Corey's or Kiki's where it's the -ONLY- tangible reward given. ALSO. No, I'm not asking for Makuhita to be axed. I'm asking for it to be moved just BEHIND Florinia for the sake of giving -ANOTHER- Pokemon some usage chance. My argument with Hariyama is that Boppoyama is an underrated GEM of a Pokemon....

Please. Gigalith -doesn't- trivialize Charlotte. She has Solarbeam on pokemon that most definitely outspeed it. ...That said. There are particular instances where I AGREE with you. Unfortunately, I'm not Ame. Having done this axe 'em approach the last few episodes the game has only gotten more and more popular.

*clear throat* I uh....do it for the fans.....

.....I hope she stays gone.

Exeggcute in Mr. Seacret's Garden please. I love you Cherubi....but man are you annoying to deal with for a short while.

I'd be pretty keen on using this myself...I'll check it out and see if the pixelation is wonky.

It's -not- bad against Shade. It get's Knock-Off by level up. GUTS Hariyama is -most definitely- not afraid of Shade. I'm not saying Makuhita needs the axe, but being able to be a fully evolved Pokemon that eliminates Florinia's main threat clearing the way for Litleo, Kricketune, etc, completely compromises her difficulty. That's where the issue stems. Pancham is a suitable replacement, and Makuhita, if need be, be found in the Beryl Ward or Jasper Ward immediately afterwards. Hariyama is a very underrated Pokemon and if found in -just- the right place, it can be the front-runner against later fighting types. With Fake-Out, Knock-Off and as of ORAS BELLY DRUM by level up, this thing's not a waste of a team slot at all. It's areas of hope are spread out so that it -can- be used as a viable option. Team Meteor consists of Rock type Pokemon, so Hariyama can assist with evil organization clean up during the story. Dr. Connal and his goons like Steel types. If Ame is going to throw up other trainers as psuedo story bosses, I will too. Boppoyama demands some respect.

Alright, look. I think we -all- have relative ideas for how Reborn should go about it's Pokemon distribution. After having a rather unsettling debate with Ame personally, there are some things that I've gathered -ABSOLUTELY- matter when considering who goes where., - Yes, 'X Mon breaks leader' is an absolutely valid reason to axe a Pokemon. This is because one of the premises of the game is to encourage using Pokemon that you normally would not throughout to the point where creativity and and cunning is made a near-need. Exhibit 'A' here is the Zubat line, which (Azery, THIS IS WHERE YOU WERE WRONG ARRRGH) is -only- found in Byxbysion Wasteland caves. Ame's intent behind this was to ensure Kiki has a shred of dignity when facing opponents as Crobat is an absolute terror and given enough TLC is indeed a very reliable partner that does break that area of the game. I provided a lot of what I thought justified putting Zubat in Azery's Apophyll cave, such as the complete halt the story would take to raise Golbat's friendship at that point, to the point where Kiki doesn't tangibly reward the player with anything other than story progression, which could put a serious bind on your team if you're not careful. It's for naught. If -all- of Reborn's leaders have a chance to require critical thinking and strategy, then that's a major seller on this game over rewarding the player for tenacity and patience. As Dondon earlier argued, Zubat has later chances to shine and may even -still- be considered a major factor against Samson. - We're dealing with the struggle of trying to put 700+ Pokemon in a spot where they can be "considered"......It's not going to happen with them all, but the goal is to be relatively -close- to that goal Now to elaborate on somethings I'm in the camp that would love to see TYNAMO replace Electrike over Blitzle. Yes, I understand that Blitzle is a near perfect -MATCH- for the spot, but Tynamo's difficulty make's it a Pokemon that wouldn't see much use anywhere else in the game, while still rewarding the player with a Levitate electric type Pokemon. Blitzle gets access to Flame Wheel which makes it a boon against Shelly, and it's also a fast Pokemon. Eelectrik isn't very good - which makes it PERFECT for the beginning of the game when the trainer is supposed to be just as green. ---- The bottom line here though, is that Magnemite outclasses both Zebstrika -and- Eelectrik fairly quickly and is probably SAFE due to being one of the few chances the player has at beating Arceus. There's not a wide ceiling for either Pokemon, but getting access to Tynamo would give it a chance to shine as one of the best coverage mons possible. It'll get forgotten -much like it did in the Gen 5 games it originated from - if put much later. My insistence on moving Makuhita -after- Florinia hinges not on it's own strengths, but that putting Pancham in it's place and moving Makuhita -just- after Flobot would at least leave both options viable (giving Panda a spotlight it wouldn't have now because Scraggy, while leaving Hariyama as a frontrunner early in for fights later on that players might consider taking advantage of. Hell, you can probably find Makuhita in the Rhindocrine Jungle caves or out and about in the Jasper Ward if you must preserve it's early spot, but it's a little of overkill for Flobot and it would help Pancham shine if Pancham isn't getting moved to the Slums, then leave Makuhita where it is...or we really could be sadistic and force players to go Mankey or nothing.

Got you covered, Pausaunias. Ame, I'm not terribly certain it "falls off" - as per my argument about Thick Fat. Granted, it is not a popular fighting type (and Pangoro isn't either.) and there are usually better choices later that replace it, but my argument is that the Pokemon is fairly useful against the likes of Serra and Charlotte due to that reason. That being said, I don't have the calcs for dealing with Charlotte in her field, but I'm certain that Eruption Typhlosion taking a Fake-Out right out the gate is a positive for the player without making much analysis on that end. To further make the argument, -Guts- is also a workable ability in those areas where it's attack would be boosted as opposed to halved b burns. --- In contrast, Pangoro has Scrappy, which is a boon, and Iron Fist - which it doesn't get a lot of moves to justify considering as a boon. Pangoro -to me- seems like the better fit -there- due to not being able to evolve before Florinia and so on and so forth. If you're not concerned about Hariyama being used for a while, you could just move it somewhere -after- Rini but before Corey or something relatively soon. It may not be the most liked fighting type, but Boppoyama has some serious ceiling -well- past Florinia. --- Skrelp being a lower rod would need it to be moved earlier in the game or lowered in level a tad, in my opinion.

Happy Birthday, Pyrr.

Azery, I've been tracking and even -lapping- you buddy. Solution: Swap out Makuhita for Pancham in the Slums, move Makuhita back.

Pangoro has an array of uses and they -should- be considered. Scrappy for example allows Pangoro to completely mix it up with Shade with it's entire learnset. Iron Fist however, would only affect Hammer Arm (Move Tutor at earliest, level 57 at latest) and Sky Uppercut, and would not be able to be used in conjunction with Foresight which would mean Ghosts only have to contend with Dark type attacks. Pangoro's learnset consists of only three types, Dark, Fighting, and Normal. Sky Uppercut could be a boon with no penalty, but the superior Hammer Arm comes with a draw back (losing a speed stage) after each use, making Metronome a horrid argument as to why it shouldn't happen. It's good enough that I think Pangoro would need to replace a Pokemon if it was to be moved further. --- I have already submitted Makuhita. Hariyama's Thick Fat is an incredibly valuable ability that allows it to be an option against things like Serra and Charlotte (although the latter might have burn potential), get's natural level up access to Knock-Off when Pangoro doesn't (Crunch is better damage wise, but items will be a factor in higher echolon Reborn matches.) and get's acess to Fake Out to hinder opponents and Belly Drum which gives it sweeping potential. --- Azery is mostly right when it comes to coverage moves. It would need an ORAS esque tutor or TM to gain some coverage ability. --- Pangoro doesn't get Power-Up Punch by level up, so that's a non-issue as well. It's biggest questions are is having it before Shade going to break his battle (and if will-o-wisp is a thing, the only set that would be in question is Scrappy sets) and if it finds more dominating uses than Hariyama after Florinia.....speaking of Rini, Pancham doesn't get the hope of evolving before her gym battle, Hariyama shuts down Flobot.

Four words. Bullet. Punch. Poison. Jab. Faster? Doesn't matter. Better hope you can take a hit. --- As someone who knows a little about Pancham I can I honestly say that it's a better fit to replace Makuhita, as Thick Fat makes that thing invaluable in multiple situations if given the right TLC. It really depends on if Azery is right about it's moveset. He's been PAINFULLY wrong before.

Favorite YT: oneminuteapologist, Sparc Mac (RuneScape), The Game Theorists Favorite Poketubers: Dookieshed, Haydunn, TamashiiHiroka, Natewantstobattle, ShadyPenguin, King Nappy, Glitchxcity, TheJWittz....and I guess that shofu guy and Nickaboo although they've been fading fast....

Okay, I like that there's an option in M-Metagross for Fairy wielding teams, as Whimsicott is a real annoyance in VGC and MegaGross puts the adequate pressure on not only it, but several other Pokémon barring you can keep it healthy. MegaMence will do fine against Fire and Fighting threats. You don't like Electricity -or- Ice -or- Rock type attacks, which is something things like Cress like to run (and are a real pain to get rid of.) As already mentioned, choicing Talonflame into Tailwind is kinda silly. If Tailwind is a flying type move, it will already have priority with Gale Wings, so you might run LO or Lefties depending on how that changes your set. I get that you don't want that Earthquake to cause your teammates damage, but I think you may have taken it into account -too- much. Things to consider. - UnChoicing T-Flame - Assault Vest Eelektross over Thunderous to give you some Rock and Ice coverage. - AV Azumarill over Togekiss

I just think the Fairy type was a poorly executed way to nerf the Dragon type. With it's absolute immunity to Dragon type attacks, and obscure weaknesses to Poison and Steel type moves, Fairies more or less have replaced Dragons as the overpowered type rather than establishing more parity. The argument most certainly can be made that this has also raised the popularity of using Poison and Steel types, but it doesn't really seem to have solved much of a problem. --- A Pokémon I want to submit for being moved forward is Geodude (Currently found under the Grand Stairway) The Geodude line suffers a horrid fate of being x4 weak to Water -and- Grass type attacks. It's greatest question mark is how effective it would be against Corey - where it would seem to have a very solid chance at doing some serious work. --- A Pokémon I would like to see moved back/axed would be Cleffa - which most likely -will- see the axe head in some shape or form. Clefable is obtainable WELL before Kiki, and absolutely causes her trouble, as well as finds it's use against Luna later on in the game. It's very potent after Radomus (after Calm Mind is obtained if that's still a thing) and doesn't see much of a threat outside of Corey and Aya at this point of in the game.

It's okay Mike. She likes Fairies. Just dish it back. You'd be completely justified.

the Wynaut is an intended pun. There's not a way around it. At least you would be ALLOWED to use those Pokémon. I don't see where this would be too far fetched and unreasonable.

I can -rationalize- with before Spinel Town, because you would have to grind the hell out of it before Serra to use it against her, but it would absolute decimate Samson period. It would also put some pressure on Luna and Radomus. Before Florinia? That's downright stupid. The gauntlet has already been thrown. It's -not- happening. You've all said your peace. Thanks for that. I suppose. Crobat and Emolga are lesser used Pokémon in any sense of the word. These Pokémon are ENCOURAGED to be used in this game over things you would see in OU on a somewhat consistent basis. That's part of the games difficulty. Archeops has a CRIPPLING ability as opposed to a constant boon in Gale Wings, and Archeops is at risk against Samson if played horridly.

"Hey...Mom....Yeah.....I'm okay......I made it......yes.....The station DID explode....but I'm okay..." "Oh, this Victoria chick seems like she'll all kinds of helpful." "......GET OUT OF MY WAY, I'VE GOT FRIGGEN KIDS TO SAVE." "Ooooookay, Cain....this......this comes natural to you doesn't it....." "Mom....this gym leader...just jumped off of a bridge." "NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooMEDICHAMYOUWERESOYOUNG-OMG-KIKI?I.....I wanna go home...."

I take it you don't do RU Pokémon battles, so you probably wouldn't know... ...but Fletchinder is banned from NeverUsed. Astounding for a NFE Pokémon in it's own right, but completely contrasts with your argument that Fletchinder is horrible. Outside of Tailow, it's the only bird Pokémon that scoffs at burns, and it's learnset is one of the more FORGIVING of the early bird Pokémon out there. Crobat, your poster 'mon for how viable Talonflame is without being gamebreaking, doesn't like burns chief. It also can't heal itself unless you are able to teach it Roost through TM You can't in Reborn early on. Breeding is -FINE-, but we are -NOT- going to push for making it easier THAT early in the game. We -should- be happy we have the Day Care is accessible that early in the first place. ...I'm not here to say Talonflame is gamebreaking, but you make it sound like it's terrible enough to be viable extremely early when that simply is -not- true. By Serra, you can have the best of the best set if you so please, and from there it's a very sexy option. You can joke about priority peck and ember being lackluster all you want but when you can common candy and have priority Roost BEFORE THE SECOND GYM, that's a bit of a relief considering the game is -supposed- to be unforgiving early on.

To put an exclamation point the biggest things that stand out to me about Talonflame are three very practical and critical things. 1. Apparently this needs to be established, but FREE........Priority healing. Even with the small trade-off that it's Fire typing would render it at the mercy of Ground type attacks for the turn it lands, Talonflame is able to save the player money, which is a big deal around level 25 as a Fletchinder. 2. Talonflame, as a fire type Pokémon, is immune to burns. This is a huge deal as a physical attacker. 3. Many players are -very- keen on hatching eggs. Arguably, Reborn is a game that remotely justifies trying to breed for better Pokémon to use. - Talonflame's usual ability would allow it to be an incubator and it would be available before Florinia, giving the player early access to reduced hatching time. I wouldn't mind a looser leash on TMs either, now that the Move Tutor is further back in the game.

The question is - would a new player even have to KNOW that the event is happening because of their decision of starter? It's also not really a punishment if you can take matters in your own hands and get your money back. I don't understand why people think trade-offs are a bad thing....especially when - All Pokémon will eventually be available. - All Items will eventually be available. ...regardless of decision. Aside from that, Scripting and coding may/may not be a nightmare, and I was just being hypothetical as everyone else though. It's funny how you try to justify not adding talonflame and people want to disagree with -everything- you say.