Hi there. Sorry I'm late to the party; I've only had time (and remembered since busy) when forums didn't let me post about it. Anyway my thoughts; Edit: Don't take anything said here as a personal attack; I'm addressing the thought not the person and last thing I need is another person misconstruing it I love you all <3
In a thread about centralization; if you're going to say "This playstyle is extremely common. This strategy counters it, so let's remove it, because the other playstyle is bad" Then you're honestly just adding opinion as if it were fact, and on top of it you're saying one thing is very common, or overcentralized, but instead let us take out a counter? That seems like it makes no sense to me. In fact; Klefki's supportive nature is hardly seen anymore as stall has taken a sharp decline, it's just that Klefki is a good counter to things that have taken precedence in the metagame, so it got used. That's how a metagame works as an intrinsic aspect; you have things rise in popularity to combat other things. As a side note to the first piece, stall is also a legitimate strategy and should be treated like such.
Why would you lead with a set up sweeper? I can safely say that mentalities like that are what lead to a stale meta because what it does; it promotes a pattern, and says anything that is an outlier to the pattern isn't acceptable, and must be removed. To address the point within a Pokémon sense; Set up sweepers actually can do a decent job at hurting your opponent when they would otherwise be unable to react; instead of using the time to act supportively. For example; I used a team where I had two set up sweepers. There was a core stall segment that functioned in the mid game. Early, I would get one sweeper out on turn two, set up (one had Agility, one Rain Dance) and I would proceed to put a dent in the opponents team, usually finding a way to get multiple Pokémon eliminated. After, I used the core to combat the opponent's remaining Pokémon, set myself up to prey on the opposing holes I made, and when I had the perfect turn set up, I switched and finished sweeping. It's quite different from the standard setup, which is to use other Pokémon first, and then go in with a set up sweeper late only, but it was very effective. The only difference here would be having a lead do it; which to me isn't unrealistic at all. I remember when Shell Smash Cloyster was popular after all as a lead; was quite the challenge. It can definitely give you a different benefit though.
Lot's to address in this one.
Firstly; it takes player skill to teambuild. A lot of people claim it doesn't, or overlook the fact that it does, and I can't comprehend why. One well placed aspect to your team, that otherwise wouldn't be a particular note, can increase your win rate by an astounding amount. It takes skill to realize where that lies and how that will change. There's also a lot of things that people just cookie cutter as well; moves and items being the most notorious. Leftovers and Life Orbs literally are the metagame right now. Add the occasional thing like Focus Sash, which is frail Magic Guard or Leads, Choice items which are not spammable on teams with the same effect, and maybe the rouge weather rock for a specific weather team in this gen? That's terrible in comparison to the amount of items out there.
Addressing both the same and next points, Lum berries are extremely useful. It's hard to find a spot for a good Cleric (Heal Bell/Aromatherapy users), and sometimes you don't need one for every Pokémon, or it wouldn't be as quick as you need. That's why Lum berry was a popular pick back in gen 4, and very commonly would turn momentum in that users favor. It's a free switch in, and on top of that, if it's Swagger, would be a free +2 attack. A free switch is inherently amazing for HO. +2 attack can go a long way for HO. Instant removal of a debuff for one turn can make the entire difference. So why is that such a bad thing overall? It's not; and people just don't deviate from the current 2+3 item standard. Magic Bounce is a niche pick...why? Clearly, it's not just a Swagger counter if it's being used on the other teams to counter things like hazards, phasing, status, and more. It's preventing the opponent from using anything but attack moves or else they take it. More free switch-ins, and debuffs on opponents to boot? Count me in. I covered the prior set-up lead idea already...if you want something new; take Infernape. If BP teams are cookie cutter, that means Smeargle is the lead. Smeargle gets outsped by Infernape. Infernape can take Fake Out to break opposing Focus Sashes. Infernape can take Taunt to prevent leads from setting up, Stealth Rock to set up support itself, or crush the opposition with moves like Flare Blitz, Fire Blast, Close Combat or more. It takes out a surprisingly large amount of things, isn't forced to lose to Taunt/Magic Guard users, take Burn status (Sableye leads), can provide it's own support, can prevent opposing leads from functioning, and above all, it's versatile. Incredible how useful it is, but people will find some way to denote it into a bad spot because it's not standard and 'has to be used as a counter niche'. I can pull up common gen 4 strats all day that weren't counter-specific.
Unaware Quagsire and Clefable also being niche...huh? Admittedly, Magic Guard Clefable is more popular, but Unaware is definitely existent, and Unaware Quagsire was used often as a general purpose opposition to stat boosts, mostly HO Swords Dancers, Dragon Dancers and the like. In such a HO saturated metagame, I don't see why you wouldn't want one of those. Clefable doesn't need Magic Guard to function as an anti-set up wall. As far as following that set pattern and not responding to opponents, I can't say I agree. Swagger users can't reset the same old swagger pattern over and over on targets that switch, it would require little effort to get rid of the entry hazards that were placed (If they even were in the first place), and if the user gets constant damage on the enemy (for example, Toxic Spikes placement, Leech Seed, Will-o-Wisp) it's a matter of time before hitting the switch button wins a game. That is something that is hard to do? That's something that I would laugh my way to the bank with every time. Even if you're Hyper Offensive in teambuilding, Toxic Spikes can help you set things up for the sweeps you want, along with other hazards, Will-o-Wisp or other burns function well to stop revenge killers that use priority (or retaliate) and above all, Utility on HO teams might sound weird but it's just as necessary as an attack on a stall team; it has a specific purpose to serve, and gives you a lot more versatility and can make you more intimidating. To round up the prediction theory; I was running versus a Baton Pass team earlier. I failed to predict the opponents Protect, which allowed them to read into my Roar. That one turn won the enemy the game, because instead of speeding into a BP chain, they decided to scout out the opponent by using an intelligent move. However, if I had used an attack instead, they might not assume Roar, and instead might predict differently, allowing me to Roar successfully and gain momentum as such a large part of the chain fell apart. Was Roar standard on my team? Definitely. Was Roar known by the enemy? No. Was Protect known by me? Yes. I failed to react accordingly which is why I lost, not 'the enemy has a cookie cutter movement pattern so I lost'.
I'm sorry..but there's needing of a single train of thought here... if it's not a good chance for one party, how is it good for another? That's literally the same chance on both sides, that shouldn't be considered different.
I just posted that one to say thank you, for coming up with examples (some new some old) and telling how much damage they can do to a team of them, because suffice to say almost any team that's using this strat legitimately would only use one. (read: anyone not trying to get it banned by being annoying, and also not you because you're actually legitimately aiming to make that team work based off of things you like.) If they only use one, we have a gauge on how effective it'll be. Anywho; restore content is amazing on the forums <3 but it also is why the quoted from ____ didn't show up. I gotta go again or I would post more, so I'll see what's what after. I already voted btw.