Voting: Wifi Clause on the Ladder, yay or nay?

[Kaito]

Hello Reborn! So lately there's been some discussion over wifi clause on Reborn's ladder. Well, it's been causing some ruckus on the server, so we're going to take it to a vote! I know there was a topic on it earlier but this allows us to start fresh. So just vote yes, no, or if you REALLY don't care at all, that you don't care. Feel free to make a case about why you want it or why you don't, but remember to keep it civil! We don't want anything spiraling out of hand. So, vote away!

[Sapphire]

I say have it as an optional thing. Don't enforce it. And for those who're arguing it's closer to the games-if you use that argument we can scratch off fanbans, ban all Deoxys Formes, Keldeo, etc.

I'm all for hardcore people wanting to ladder with wifi, but it should be a separate tier, or have a ticked/unticked box for wifi clause on find battle.

[Swimming95]

As far as having it optional goes, this is for the default on the ladder... whether we want to add another set of tiers to encompass the other is a different point that I can add once the voting is done. Either way, this is a vote for LADDER ONLY. We have never enforced clauses for tournaments and its up to the combatants to agree on them.

That being said, I absolutely hate wifi clause and feel like it takes out a lot of the strategy and can make your opponents easier to predict. But as I said in the last thread, I know that is just my opinion and I don't ladder anymore so this doesn't really affect me much

[Fezzdog]

Going to point out this thread first:

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9388&page=2

If making it optional means there being a ladder with Wi-fi and a ladder without then I'm all for it. I'd rather be spoiled for choice than rather be limited to what tiers I can play here. The argument that a No-Preview OU tier wouldn't be played I don't think would hold true considering how many people really dislike Wi-fi clause on Reborn. Equally though, I'd want to see Wi-fi Clause being default considering that's the case in the games and it removes the luck factor in the lead game.

[Notus]

I think Sec has a good point, making it optional would be a neat solution if it's possible to implement. If not, than I'd prefer to keep it without the wi-fi clause, mostly because of personal preference. I like the extra challenge that scouting represents, and Reborn is the place were we can still do that.

EDIT: Just clarifying, I'm going with the split tiers idea. It attends everyone, and even if there's a possibility of one of them ending dead, it's better to give it a chance than outright taking it out.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Notus

[Guest]

I'm all for that optional box tick thing.

[Sapphire]

Ideally what I'd like to see is the optional vote winning, the new ladder being done, and the enforce/don't enforce votes being used to decide whether it was the default or not.

[Felicity]

Personally, I prefer to not have Wifi. When you do have it, it makes the freaking beginning of the game a predictathon."Will he lead with this, does he think i'll lead with that, that's the most obvious move though" etc.

Wifi also puts a stop to game changers. I can't tell you how many times I've been battling someone good and we've been going back and forth pretty well, and then One of us whips out a game changer to surprise the other.

[Fezzdog]

Uh hang about, does this optional box thing mean both non-wifi and wifi players get pooled into the same OU ladder? I'd disagree with that if that's the case. I think we need some clarification first.

[Kaito]

I'd like to note that last time we split something into 2 seperate tiers, we ended up with one almost completely dead and unused ( and it was for no weather in 5G, so it was a pretty big argument there as well ), so personally that makes me wary towards having the tier split into two. As for clarification, Swims is our coder on that, so best to ask him.

[Sapphire]

Tbh I didn't really notice much weather in 5G on Reborn anyway...

Anyway, make non-wifi the default, and wifi the 'optional tier' All of AO seem dead-set on wifi, so they can go off and do their own thing and keep the tier alive. (Though I think it would be alive anyway).

[Fezzdog]

I'd like to note that last time we split something into 2 seperate tiers, we ended up with one almost completely dead and unused ( and it was for no weather in 5G, so it was a pretty big argument there as well ), so personally that makes me wary towards having the tier split into two. As for clarification, Swims is our coder on that, so best to ask him.

The argument that a No-Preview OU tier wouldn't be played I don't think would hold true considering how many people really dislike Wi-fi clause on Reborn.

It's obvious to see that people are willing to play a No-Preview tier when a vote like this has to be made after there was already a discussion to make Wi-fi default. No Preview was a draw for this server and taking it away sounds counter-intuitive when it's a big reason why people stay. Even if it was to remain unplayed, would it being there just as an option be to anyone's detriment? As far as I can see I don't see that being the case and having the seperate tier just being there would make more people happier than angry.

If this optional tick-box thing was to lead into the same ladder pool, I'm heavily against that. If you were to tick it then you wouldn't be playing with those who had it unticked and there would be no basis for comparison considering you're not playing the same game (just this being such a controversial issue means there's enough differences between wifi and non-wifi to consider them a different game) and you're not playing against the same player pool. How would you say the #1 in the ladder is truly #1 when he hasn't played under the same conditions as possibly the majority of the ladder?

I'm happy with 2 seperate No Preview and Preview OU tiers though c:

[片思い]

ao wifi conspiracy strong

[Wendel]

I don't ladder but every time I do find battle have wifi is awful

[Dominator]

Jyus Jyus Jyus Jyus

EDIT: Wait wasn't this established already?

[片思い]

Wait wasnt this established already?

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9388&page=2

yes but everyone in that thread is an AO member who pushed it through only to benefit themselves

and the 10,000+ people playing on showdown and the 600-800 on beta with Wi-fi on... well they are all AO members too

AO needs to stop oppressing vocal minorities who hate wi-fi even though everyone else everywhere else is playing it

[Sapphire]

Now, somebody has randomly deleted my post, despite me making some valid points, so here it is again:

Most of the people who posted in the other thread were AO members. That means that they can be all hardcore and fight with wifi on, but there's no need to force the rest of us to play it.

Dominator-Most people didn't even know that discussion was taking place. And as you can see by the number of votes we have here, as well as the fact that unlike the other thread it's not a group of people all agreeing with each other (which might I add, had been decided beforehand), which means we have a much more balanced vote.

[Void]

zzzzz just make a no preview OU tier if people actually want to ladder on that ez

[Sapphire]

Yeah-that falls under optional. Though I'm of the opinion that no preview should be the default, with a 'wifi tier'. That's what draws quite a few people to reborn after all-the no preview.

[slant]

you guys all act like separating into two different tiers will make everyone happy. it won't. everyone will ladder on whatever is default and the other tier will die (for proof please recall the clear skies tier that everyone laddered on twice before completely forgetting about it).

[Sapphire]

But letting AO force through wifi will make lots of people UNHAPPY. And AO have shown that they really like wifi. So we make no preview the default, and they can show their dedication to wifi by keeping the other tier alive.

[Shanco]

I'm all for wifi being an optional thing. We've always been about having that different metagame - there's a reason why the server rule about respecting the autonomy of the metagame exists.

Give the option, but don't make it mandatory. That's what other servers are for. It makes very little sense to make this change given our history and rep as a very casual server.

Also in agreement with Secundum...for the most part.

[Lil' Baby Rupe]

But letting AO force through wifi will make lots of people UNHAPPY. And AO have shown that they really like wifi. So we make no preview the default, and they can show their dedication to wifi by keeping the other tier alive.

But letting AO force through wifi will make me UNHAPPY. And AO have shown that they really like wifi. So we make no preview the default, and they can show their dedication to wifi by keeping the other tier alive.

ftfy*

Edited August 20, 2014 by Rupe

[片思い]

40 votes.. with 21 replies... from 14 people

math adds up man

this "discussion" is going well, ty all for voting and leaving your reasons and comments

[Sapphire]

Yeah, it's a shame more people haven't posted. A lot of discussion has been on the server and in backchannels/on skype though.