Official Super Smash Bros. Thread for Wii U and 3DS

[Godot]

Before saying "this character should be higher, aka yourself this. Is this character higher than the character before them? Also Bowser and Lucario are about in their right places. They both have some hidden tech that is on wtf bullshit levels. People have also been coming out and making that tech better known.

[Godot]

This is interesting, I thought this tech only existed in Melee.

this thread is being bumped with new info this ain't double posting, scrubs.

[Flux]

I'e heard that shield dropping is a lot easier in Brawl and Smash 4 than Melee, which, as a (mainly) Melee player, I can definitely say is nice. I haven't tried it in Smash 4 yet, so I can't say for sure how much easier, but it's tough for sure in Melee, almost to the point of being unusable for all but the most dedicated players. I'll have to remember to give it a try in Smash 4 though.

[Shanco]

Since Smashboards is down, I'll compile a rough list of changes in 1.1.4 (sans numbers) here as I discover or read about them. Here goes:

Bowser

- Flying Slam grabbox size increased (I assume this means longer range as well)

- Up Throw knockback increased (nerf to Up Air combo)

Bowser Jr.

- Clown Kart damage doubled

- Forward Air damage increased

Falco

- Up Smash starting lag reduced, knockback growth increased, now connects better vs crouching opponents

- Up Smash: Legs are now intangible during hitbox

- Down Smash knockback growth increased

Ganondorf

- Weight increased

- Dark Dive "Final Fist" knockback increased

Ike

- Eruption base damage increased

- Neutral Air and Forward Air damage slightly increased

Kirby

- Weight increased

Little Mac

- Forward Smash damage increased

- Up Smash and Down Smash damage increased

- Up Throw and Down Throw angles adjusted

Lucina

- Moderate damage buffs to all aerials

- The following moves have increased range: Jab 1, Jab 2, Forward Tilt, Down Tilt, Neutral Air, Forward Air, Back Air

- Forward Tilt and Dancing Blade have overall improved frame data

- Jab and Up Tilt end lag reduced

Mario

- Up Smash no longer grants head invincibility

Marth

- Slight damage buffs to all aerials

- The following moves have increased range: Jab 1, Jab 2, Forward Tilt, Down Tilt, Neutral Air, Forward Air, Back Air

- Forward Tilt and Dancing Blade have overall improved frame data

- Jab, Up Tilt and Down Smash end lag reduced

Rosalina & Luma

- Rosalina: Weight reduced

Roy

- Uncharged Flare Blade damage slightly increased

- All aerials landing lag significantly reduced

Sheik

- Weight reduced

- Vanish explosion knockback reduced

- Vanish explosion hitbox is smaller

Sonic

- Weight reduced

Toon Link

- Back Air landing lag reduced

- Spin Attack starting lag reduced (grounded version also has less endlag)

Zero Suit Samus

- Weight reduced

- Boost kick final kick angle adjusted, knockback growth reduced

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/

[Maelstrom]

Corrin is pretty fun and smooth to use. Her side B is practically useless from the ground and is more likely to set you up for punishment. Even from the air, it's got a lot less use on flat stages without platforms because the timing is rather tight to get the spear into the ground and do the additional launching attack. If you're playing battlefield or miiverse, it's a lot of fun to use the platforms instead of the ground. In fact if you hit them on the ground with the spear, it has a chance of bumping you up and sticking your spear into the platform above.

bair is awkward and a momentum killer. I didn't put it to much use but it still managed get me killed if I used it the wrong way off the edge.

upair and fair feel great though and both up and down throws have a lot of launch power.

I haven't checked damage percentages but the neutral B charge shot is pretty good. It always has the mouth snap to go with it so it can hit people who jump or dodge the blast but it keeps you from ever taking advantage of the stun. It seems like it would be most useful in 2v2 matches or even FFA.

Down smash is underwhelming but side smash is pretty good.

Up B is pretty useless as an attack and cannot go backwards at all. It either goes straight up or diagonally up in the direction you're facing. This, like the bair, can easily get you killed before your time.

I find male Corrin's voice to be annoying.

[Dark Desire]

corrin's neutral b is amazing for just the projectile alone, being a super long stun and dealing 13% fully charged, the only thing that gripes me is that you can't cancel the second part of it but you can still follow up of it at certain ranges though

he's kinda what marth should've been, with the double fairs and follow ups out of ariels

[Shing]

mfw marth buffed.

[Godot]

Wait... They nerfed Bowser? I am going to test this later, but he was able to do a lot more than just up throw up air... Also, a lot of the top tiers were made lighter and easier to kill, they tweaked Mac and Ike giving them slight damage buffs and they tweaked Mac's down smash, down throw, and up throw and idk how useful that will be just yet. Again, going to hafta test it. Also, Bayoneta is Bae AF.

Refuarding Corrin's neutral B, it can be beaten by any projectile, even when fully charged. The uncharged version can be slid under by Cloud, Bayonetta, and possibly Megaman.

[Shing]

My god, bayonetta have zero to death combos like seriously.

[Godot]

Did some testing and Bowser can still do all of his stuff up until 100%. Literally, once 101% hit, up throw to up air just stopped connecting for no good reason at all whatsoever. Up throw to uptilt, fair, nair, and Bair all still work.

For Mac's changes, I don't see how the throw changes help him. The down smash thing is kinda cool since it make it harder to survive from DI-ing since the launch angle is a lot sharper.

As for Bae, does she have reliable 0-death combos? Her attacks don't do a whole lot of damage so her combos don't seem to do more than 20-40% which isn't that amazing. She also can't seem to reliable combo into kills. The only "kill combo" she has is not 100% guaranteed, being afterburner kick into sweet spot Dair spike. However, it almost seems like her knockback gets decreased when she is performing true combos. It also seems like her kill options are Bair, up air, sweet spot Dair, and her smashes. She can also jab cancel in some interesting ways. Witch twist and Afterburner Kick are pretty cool for mobility. As long as the attacks don't connect you can help bae approach and get some Bairs and Up Airs in and score some kills. It also seems that her best recovery option is witch twist -> after burner kick -> double jump -> witch twist. She can only witch twist once per jump and she can only do a second after burner kick if the first one connects to a living source. Witch time also seems to decrease knockback of her attacks. Also the salt Mael feels when I witch time his attack and smash attack him allowing myself to taunt two or three times is delicious. The salt I feel when I witch time a multihitting move... Fuck Cloud's side smash... **goes somewhere to find something cute and innocent to strangle**

Edit: oh yeah. Her up air hitbox starts from behind her, which is weird.

[Shing]

Go to 1:14 to see the combo to death. This can be Di'd tho, through an example.

Her throws is also doesn't connect into any attacks which sucks :/

Also from the patch thing they say mk didn't get any nerf.

Which is fucking cool because i love the up strings lol. Through i use mk for speficly matchup really.

[Dark Desire]

I was watching nairo's stream all last night and it's kinda surprising how good he's making her seem just on the first day of release

[Maelstrom]

Did some testing and Bowser can still do all of his stuff up until 100%. Literally, once 101% hit, up throw to up air just stopped connecting for no good reason at all whatsoever. Up throw to uptilt, fair, nair, and Bair all still work.

For Mac's changes, I don't see how the throw changes help him. The down smash thing is kinda cool since it make it harder to survive from DI-ing since the launch angle is a lot sharper.

As for Bae, does she have reliable 0-death combos? Her attacks don't do a whole lot of damage so her combos don't seem to do more than 20-40% which isn't that amazing. She also can't seem to reliable combo into kills. The only "kill combo" she has is not 100% guaranteed, being afterburner kick into sweet spot Dair spike. However, it almost seems like her knockback gets decreased when she is performing true combos. It also seems like her kill options are Bair, up air, sweet spot Dair, and her smashes. She can also jab cancel in some interesting ways. Witch twist and Afterburner Kick are pretty cool for mobility. As long as the attacks don't connect you can help bae approach and get some Bairs and Up Airs in and score some kills. It also seems that her best recovery option is witch twist -> after burner kick -> double jump -> witch twist. She can only witch twist once per jump and she can only do a second after burner kick if the first one connects to a living source. Witch time also seems to decrease knockback of her attacks. Also the salt Mael feels when I witch time his attack and smash attack him allowing myself to taunt two or three times is delicious. The salt I feel when I witch time a multihitting move... Fuck Cloud's side smash... **goes somewhere to find something cute and innocent to strangle**

Edit: oh yeah. Her up air hitbox starts from behind her, which is weird.

Her witch time gives her time to smash twice, so if she fucks up the first time, she can fix and still kill you. It's annoying how spammable her witch time is too.

[Godot]

Go to 1:14 to see the combo to death. This can be Di'd tho, through an example.

Her throws is also doesn't connect into any attacks which sucks :/

Also from the patch thing they say mk didn't get any nerf.

Which is fucking cool because i love the up strings lol. Through i use mk for speficly matchup really.

Apparently people discovered something reguarding her infinite. And idk how powerful Corrin's counter, but apparently it can rival Ike and Shulk.

And I kept telling you Mael, Bae's counter is no different than a simple counter if you look at it that way. Bae's Witch Time into Smash Attack is also not as powerful as Ike's and Corrin's counter. Hell, every counter hits harder and has more knockback than Bae's witch time into smash attack combo.

[Shanco]

I f-tilted Corrin's counter with Ganon and it killed me off the top at 30 with rage.

It is easily the strongest non-custom counter in the game.

[Maelstrom]

It doesn't matter that the counter, witch time itself, doesn't do much damage. It's the fact that you can do more damage and then deal a smash attack to kill off an opponent that matters.

That's like saying Cloud's Limit Down Special is bad because it only ever hits for 1%- you're missing the point.

[Godot]

It doesn't matter that the counter, witch time itself, doesn't do much damage. It's the fact that you can do more damage and then deal a smash attack to kill off an opponent that matters.

That's like saying Cloud's Limit Down Special is bad because it only ever hits for 1%- you're missing the point.

Again, her attacks don't do a whole lot of damage, so she wouldn't be able to rack up a considerable amount of damage that would make Witch Time outclass a counter in sheer force and knockback.

The only thing I can actually see you drawing your argument from is the whole "you don't like getting combo'd across the screen" bias coming into play.

[Shadow Tack]

Opinions? http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/

I think Fox, Roy, and Lucas are all in weird places. but I have difficulty arguing this. C tier should also merge with B tier and has no right to exist.

too many letters, why is robin above link

[Dark Desire]

too many letters, why is robin above link

robin has a more relible kill confirm off grab then link with zoning tools he can do follow ups off of and not to mention his ariels are much more solid

[Shanco]

Link also has a better neutral and offstage. Link's aerials are no slouch either, since both FAir and DAir can easily do upwards of 25 damage.

Tbh I think choosing between them is sort of a matter of taste at this point.

[Shadow Tack]

my reasonin is because robin loses to everybody that has the ability to approach, aka almost every character, has a shitty neutral, and is extremely reliant on being close for any of his/her setups to work. in a projectile based character.

[TaciturnPhoenix]

Most of Robin's combos and setups are high risk, relatively low reward. My friend switched from Robin to Took Link and really enjoys the speed and variety.

[Godot]

They aren't low reward nor risky. You can get a ton of damage or even a kill off of them. It is just a matter of understanding his rhythm and know how to keep your set ups consistent. As for the risky part, I assume you are calling throwing out his arcfire a risky manuver. A smart Robin player doesn't care whether the Arc Fire hits or not. As long as it is present it does it's job. Did it hit? Cool! Free fair or up air! It didn't? Cool, how did the opponent react? Did they roll? Did hey try to jump over it? Did they shield? These are all things you want to keep in mind when using it. It isn't just a weapon for damage and combos. It is a tool for intimidation.

Link's is more of a jack of all trades character despite relying on projectiles, yes He may not have as many bad match ups as Robin. But Robin's good match ups aren't just slightly in his favor, he curb stomps most of his favorable match ups into the ground without mercy.

Also IMO. Robin has some of the best aerials in the game. They are fast, have large hitboxes that only got bigger with the recent patches, the patches also gave them low landing lag, and not to mention their sheer power.

Overall I just don't think some of you guys understand the character. He is a pretty technical character who has more to him than what you initially see with him on the surface.

[TaciturnPhoenix]

They aren't low reward nor risky. You can get a ton of damage or even a kill off of them. It is just a matter of understanding his rhythm and know how to keep your set ups consistent. As for the risky part, I assume you are calling throwing out his arcfire a risky manuver. A smart Robin player doesn't care whether the Arc Fire hits or not. As long as it is present it does it's job. Did it hit? Cool! Free fair or up air! It didn't? Cool, how did the opponent react? Did they roll? Did hey try to jump over it? Did they shield? These are all things you want to keep in mind when using it. It isn't just a weapon for damage and combos. It is a tool for intimidation.

Link's is more of a jack of all trades character despite relying on projectiles, yes He may not have as many bad match ups as Robin. But Robin's good match ups aren't just slightly in his favor, he curb stomps most of his favorable match ups into the ground without mercy.

Most Robin players that I've fought against are really predictable in their approaches, so maybe that's why I view it as risky. Just curious, but what good match ups does Robin have? I main Shulk, and have recently picked up Cloud and Corrin, but Robin isn't a character I have trouble with. I'm assuming Robin does well against characters with larger body frames, but I don't know for sure.

[Godot]

He can harass most characters that are slow, tall or big bodied, or characters that don't handle pressure well. One character he is surprisingly amazing at fighting is Rosalina. She is both tall, slow, and sucks at handling pressure.