Noivy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I hate it. I hate it all. Im very fucking passive, but even this is pushing the limits of my extreme amounts of patience. They should fire each and every one of those officers and strip them of all weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Impossible to tell. Should least wait until the dust settles before any firings are made - a single or mass firing can mean more prerogative for the protestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Time to have fun and play devil's advocate. Tear gas isn't made to make you feel good. It's there to make you get the fuck out of there. Same with rubber bullets. Used when words just don't do the trick. I wonder if they're cheaper than the bean bag launcher system... hmm... But yeah, do we know what actually happened before the decision to use them was made? Not that I know of. But what we can generally assume that there was a initially a large crowd of angry people- you know, things that scare highly outnumbered cops who are thinking about their well-being. I can see some trigger fingers getting itchy. riot- a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd protest- a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something the difference is the violence part. Cuz that's the part that's destructive rather than constructive. Start lighting shit on fire and throwing things with the intent to destroy or injure and shit gets real. Anyways, the order of escalation by both sides is important here and we don't have a clear picture on the whole situation. It looks like the kkk members there are backing the police and not the other way around. Or the police are doing what they usually do when kkk members congregate- keep other people away so it doesn't escalate into violence. Relatively speaking, that kkk group is being civil in that picture. I live under a rock so all I really know is that a fatal shooting of an unarmed teen was the trigger that unleashed all sorts of bad feelings there. Anybody have any more details? Do you think they intentionally gassed that news crew or do you think the news crew was being a news crew and taking their nosy selves into the thick of things? Context matters. And what we have are photos with no context. Photos by people generally around, but not directly involved in the situation. Probably people following the big group, trying to find out what's going on and getting gassed because of something the group did earlier. Everything I've seen so far has been pretty one-sided and very little showed any clear understanding of the real situation. Going into houses to arrest people? As a soldier, if some taliban guy shot at us or threw a grenade at us and ran away into some buildings or houses, you can be damn sure we'd go in there to try to nab the guy. A house won't save you if you've been seen doing shit you weren't supposed to. Hopefully they're all equipped with cameras and stuff to record because shit has hit the fan and every action, decision, and order of event will be questioned and scrutinized for fault once things have settled down. What a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If it couldn't get worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The St. Louis police department is being pulled out of Feguson, after the chief of police condemned their actions. The Missouri Highway Patrol will be taking over monitoring the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Time to have fun and play devil's advocate. Tear gas isn't made to make you feel good. It's there to make you get the fuck out of there. Same with rubber bullets. Used when words just don't do the trick. I wonder if they're cheaper than the bean bag launcher system... hmm... But yeah, do we know what actually happened before the decision to use them was made? Not that I know of. But what we can generally assume that there was a initially a large crowd of angry people- you know, things that scare highly outnumbered cops who are thinking about their well-being. I can see some trigger fingers getting itchy. riot- a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd protest- a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something the difference is the violence part. Cuz that's the part that's destructive rather than constructive. Start lighting shit on fire and throwing things with the intent to destroy or injure and shit gets real. Anyways, the order of escalation by both sides is important here and we don't have a clear picture on the whole situation. It looks like the kkk members there are backing the police and not the other way around. Or the police are doing what they usually do when kkk members congregate- keep other people away so it doesn't escalate into violence. Relatively speaking, that kkk group is being civil in that picture. I live under a rock so all I really know is that a fatal shooting of an unarmed teen was the trigger that unleashed all sorts of bad feelings there. Anybody have any more details? Do you think they intentionally gassed that news crew or do you think the news crew was being a news crew and taking their nosy selves into the thick of things? Context matters. And what we have are photos with no context. Photos by people generally around, but not directly involved in the situation. Probably people following the big group, trying to find out what's going on and getting gassed because of something the group did earlier. Everything I've seen so far has been pretty one-sided and very little showed any clear understanding of the real situation. Going into houses to arrest people? As a soldier, if some taliban guy shot at us or threw a grenade at us and ran away into some buildings or houses, you can be damn sure we'd go in there to try to nab the guy. A house won't save you if you've been seen doing shit you weren't supposed to. Hopefully they're all equipped with cameras and stuff to record because shit has hit the fan and every action, decision, and order of event will be questioned and scrutinized for fault once things have settled down. What a mess. I can understand why there would be some itching reaction to the riots, but it's been completely peaceful protesting after the rioting died out and the protests have only been met with even further violence and death. Also, I think you're unaware that about half the pics actually posted here are from the people directly being attacked by the police and picturing it as proof >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Either way, I'm thankful someone in the St Louis police department still has their head on straight. Now it's a matter of whether the Highway Patrol can handle the situation. As long as they were better than the last guys, I'm sure they'll be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Sorry to double post but, it's important. EDIT: So apparently they leaked the wrong person's name. Smh Edited August 15, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 http://www.sickchirpse.com/people-are-getting-along-in-ferguson-now-the-local-cops-are-gone/ The best possible outcome of Highway Patrol's intervention. Thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutoratosu Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Well, good to see that whole mess is over. But this ain't over. not at all. this is just the beginning of a long and probably harsh and painful era for The US. America is reaching a breaking point soon. the fact that this happened in the first place just proves as much. Shits starting to hit the fan, and it's gonna splatter on everyone when it does. Don't bother trying to refute this fact, because I'm gonna be too busy mulling this over to have the time to sit here and debate about what I just said. Edited August 15, 2014 by Stratos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 So you're making a controversial opinion and then subsequently trying to block off all controversy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Well, good to see that whole mess is over. But this ain't over. not at all. this is just the beginning of a long and probably harsh and painful era for The US. America is reaching a breaking point soon. the fact that this happened in the first place just proves as much. Shits starting to hit the fan, and it's gonna splatter on everyone when it does. Don't bother trying to refute this fact, because I'm gonna be too busy mulling this over to have the time to sit here and debate about what I just said. You say it like it's a nationwide problem when it isn't. Missouri is deep south and the roots of resentment are deep. Do you remember that one guy in the movie Lincoln who was against slavery but could not vote on emancipation because he could not in good conscience without enfranchising all of them. Do you know what he meant? He switched his vote to help the 13th amendment pass but you can look to the south to see how unsuccessful the US was to enfranchise and enable these newly freed men and women. This failure has had significant consequences. ... and what fact were you talking about? I hope you don't mean your dire prophesying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html That 'teen' is one big fucker. Who stole $50 worth of cigars after strong-arming a much smaller gas station clerk. The friend of the kid who died claims the officer grabbed his friend's neck and tried to pull him into the car. The officer claims he was physically pushed back into his car and was assaulted by Brown, who then also was trying to take his pistol from him. "grabbed his friend's neck and tried to pull him into the car" - this is retarded. This is not how police are trained to restrain anybody because something like this is stupid beyond all reason and would absolutely leave the officer vulnerable to attack. I call bullshit. Given the physical aspect of both Brown's size and his method of theft, I know whose story I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html That 'teen' is one big fucker. Who stole $50 worth of cigars after strong-arming a much smaller gas station clerk. The friend of the kid who died claims the officer grabbed his friend's neck and tried to pull him into the car. The officer claims he was physically pushed back into his car and was assaulted by Brown, who then also was trying to take his pistol from him. "grabbed his friend's neck and tried to pull him into the car" - this is retarded. This is not how police are trained to restrain anybody because something like this is stupid beyond all reason and would absolutely leave the officer vulnerable to attack. I call bullshit. Given the physical aspect of both Brown's size and his method of theft, I know whose story I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Lookie lookie http://newsone.com/3045219/ferguson-police-chief-admits-mike-brown-shooting-not-related-to-robbery/ Also: Three quarters of a mile from each other Edited August 15, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 Lookie lookie http://newsone.com/3045219/ferguson-police-chief-admits-mike-brown-shooting-not-related-to-robbery/ Also: Three quarters of a mile from each other The article said the cop went to the store and searched the immediate area and didn't see him, but soon after driving away he happened to encounter Brown. I don't see your point in going over this fact again. Police report filed or initiated at that time? Or estimated time of the event? One does not simply check one's watch all the time. Who knows how the time was decided on a single form. Not that we can read the form from that picture. Stealing is one thing. Attacking a cop and attempting to wrest control of his firearm from him are two different things. Pretty sure a cop is authorized lethal force in order to prevent his firearm from being taken from him. So the initial assumption of death for theft is clearly wrong if such a struggle did indeed occur. Edit: On a sudden random political tangent... Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power. http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/politics/rick-perry-indictment/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) The article said the cop went to the store and searched the immediate area and didn't see him, but soon after driving away he happened to encounter Brown. I don't see your point in going over this fact again. Police report filed or initiated at that time? Or estimated time of the event? One does not simply check one's watch all the time. Who knows how the time was decided on a single form. Not that we can read the form from that picture. Stealing is one thing. Attacking a cop and attempting to wrest control of his firearm from him are two different things. Pretty sure a cop is authorized lethal force in order to prevent his firearm from being taken from him. So the initial assumption of death for theft is clearly wrong if such a struggle did indeed occur. Edit: On a sudden random political tangent... Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power. http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/politics/rick-perry-indictment/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 They actually did post the full report of it. It was received on radio at 11:51, Dispatched police at 11:53, and Arrived at 11:54, before the pictures security cameras of "Mike Brown" in the store at 11:55, in the article you posted. At page 11 of the report there shows a log, a continuation of the log in page 10. In it, it shows at 18:54 that they still could not find the person that matched the description.Here's the report: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/Ferguson.pdf Edited August 16, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 So you're assuming the time on the possibly closed circuit security camera is 100% accurate. And I still don't see the point. As far as I can see, they looked at the footage of the store later and saw some similarities between the thief and the guy that got shot and figured he could be the guy. NEVERMIND the fact that the guy with Brown admitted that Brown had stolen the cigars. I still don't see why you bring up the store footage when the robbery itself has nothing to do with the use of lethal force when the officer encountered brown later. The store robbery is reported by the police as a foundation of character for Brown. He used violence against a clerk for cigars. It makes it much more likely that he then turned around and attacked a cop for getting after him for what basically sounds like jaywalking. The cop has been working for 6 years without a complaint filed against him. The kid he ended up shooting physically threatened another man in a theft not long before he was shot. This background information implies that the cop that shot him wasn't a bad cop, while it paints Brown in a violent state of mind with no regard for the law or authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) To be honest this incident has been very confusing, and even more as it goes along. I dunno. I'll see if there's more stuff about it tomorrow. Also, didn't they say that he stole a candy bar way before they said that he stole the cigars? All right. So Captain Johnson said that the authorities were planning to release the name of the cop and the surveillance footage. And you were right about Mike Brown stealing the cigars. But, they should have released that way earlier than they did. Maybe that could've prevented the riots and all the mess. Edited August 16, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 There are a number of inconsistencies with the police report and what actually went down. My bullshit senses are tingling, and it wouldn't be the first times the Ferguson police would be caught lying. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 To be honest this incident has been very confusing, and even more as it goes along. I dunno. I'll see if there's more stuff about it tomorrow. Also, didn't they say that he stole a candy bar way before they said that he stole the cigars? All right. So Captain Johnson said that the authorities were planning to release the name of the cop and the surveillance footage. And you were right about Mike Brown stealing the cigars. But, they should have released that way earlier than they did. Maybe that could've prevented the riots and all the mess. You forget that stealing something like that isn't grounds for a lethal shooting, so it isn't a defense. And the cop probably hadn't seen the footage till later, being out on patrol in his car. He only responded to the location of the call and got a description from the dude that got robbed. The altercation with Brown soon after is really only a coincidence that the cop actually ran into the thief without knowing. The fact that he was a thief lends credibility to the story that Brown attacked him. The primary point of defense for the officer is the claim that he was attacked and that Brown was trying to gain control of his gun. The fact of the theft is practically irrelevant except for the fact that it stands as evidence against Brown's character. And the riot, as many riots do, would then be a wrongful reaction to a situation where the wrong things were assumed as a result of the segregation and bigotry that apparently seems rampant in the area. IE, people were so willing to believe that the worst, wrong thing had happened that they acted on emotion rather than straight facts. @ Erick, that is indeed a black mark on the department, however... it only means so much, especially when the officer in this particular incident was not one of involved in the case you mentioned. It does not mean every officer in the department are so disposed to violence and bigotry. As evidence, this is both highly circumstantial and very weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyaradoskiller Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) iirc Ferguson is one of the most segregated places in the country. With the claim that Brown attacked him, is there evidence that supports the claim? Edited August 16, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 iirc Ferguson is one of the most segregated places in the country. With the claim that Brown attacked him, is there evidence that supports the claim? We don't know yet. If the altercation happened at/near his police car, at least sounds of the alteration should have been captured on the dash cam. We'll have to wait for that bit of evidence to be released. A lot hinges on that. And as I mentioned earlier, he physically threatened a gas station worker. It is therefore far more likely that Brown would have chosen to use violence against a police officer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 We don't know yet. If the altercation happened at/near his police car, at least sounds of the alteration should have been captured on the dash cam. We'll have to wait for that bit of evidence to be released. A lot hinges on that. And as I mentioned earlier, he physically threatened a gas station worker. It is therefore far more likely that Brown would have chosen to use violence against a police officer. Bruh, witnesses from all around are giving testimonies that conflict 100% with the police report. Shit, they still don't know if it was him in the gas station. How the fuck was he supposed to get 3 1/4 miles away from the place he robbed in six minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.