Graterras: Rebirth! [Interest Check/Discussion]

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Introduction:

So, I am sure many of you know of my RP here that I ran for awhile by the name of Graterras: A World in Peril. While I enjoyed running that RP I did have some misgivings with how it was set-up. It was my first forum RP that I ran and I am still fond of the world it is set in. So, why leave things where they were? I am rebooting the RP and fixing up some features I wasn't too fond of. We are going to start by removing bloat or things I didn't feel fit anymore.

So, what is this thread? I wish to reboot Graterras and restart fresh. However, there is a few things I need eyes on other than my own. I know what I would like to do, but I wish to know what my players would want as well. I will outline them below quickly so that you get a bit of my point of view on them.

So without further ado, let's get this party started.

Playable Class and Race Changes:

I originally based Graterras off of 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons. This lead me to make the choices I did when I created the classes and races their restrictions etc... However, It felt a little muddled. I wanted to include some more monsterous races to show off a important dynamic in Graterras, that the Fantasy creatures that were typically portrayed as mindless monsters were not in Graterras. This is what lead me to include Orcs and Kobolds etc... However, I am not really sure I wish to keep them. They added a bunch of extra stuff that kinda felt like it wouldn't be used often. While I like to allow a lot of choice, sometimes too much choice is an issue.

With classes, while I felt I did pretty well with the Templars, a lot of the others suffered quite a bit in my humble opinion. A lot of the Warrior ones were very similar and didn't feel very different from each other. Templars managed to stand out as they were fresh and new, sorta like special Paladins that existed only in Graterras. Graterras as a world focuses on Elementalism or that the elements themsleves live and burn themselves. The Templars are the embodiment of this Elementalism and I would like to keep them, but I feel I will fold them into the Paladin class. Like 5th Edition D and D, I would like to do a Sub-class system, one where classes can go in different directions from each other even while being the same class. It allows me to be less restrictive on the classes people play, and allows them to feel their character is different from another player's character that is of the same class. It also allows me to add a bit more flavour of my own. This system was already in place as well with the Templars, with there being 4 different types. It would not be much of a stretch to add it

Magic:

Magic in Graterras has kinda been something I am not overly proud of. I wanted to try and emulate what D and D had for a magic system, but not have the player's have to know all the spells from it. However... It felt like I was cheating the players who choose magical classes. I didn't give them much direction with their characters, and I certainly didn't give them good guidelines towards what they could do and what they couldn't. However... There are a lot of spells in Dungeon and Dragons and with them they have a lot of numbers and are explained in game terms so players might be overwhelmed with a lot of info they don't need. It is something I am no sure what I want to do with because I don't feel the system I was using was fair, but I don't want to scare off players by providing the Spells used in D and D when while it gives them a good idea of what can and can't be done, it makes it tough to understand since those spells are explained with rolls and other mechanics that don't exist within a Forum RP.

Conclusion:

However, I would like your guys input on the above to an extent. I want to know what you guys think. So, I ask that you please answer in the poll above. However, I want to know why you think such so please comment below. I don't know how many people it would scare off etc... if I did it so I want to know what the people who will probably be playing think rather than go ahead with it... and make a poor choice on my own. I like to know what potential players think because it is important. If they don't want to play that shows me that I need to see what they wish to see, what they want to change. ((please... no voting unless you comment at least something. I need the feedback more than the votes.))

Here is the link to the Original Graterras for those of you who aren't as knowledgeable or weren't around when it was going on for the most part. http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7827

I appreciate all the feedback that comes in and will be trying to ship this out as soon as I can. I don't like revealing my projects this early most times, however Graterras already has the bulk of what it was complete, therefore I don't really think it is that bad an idea to put it out there and see what the people think I should do. So, thank you for your time of reading, and I hope you have nice whatever time it is. And until next time, PLAY MORE ROLES!!! Hukuna Sensei out~

[Tomas Elliot]

You know, I just realized that, in 12 years of roleplaying, I've actually never played D&D. As weird as it sounds, it's the truth, so yeah, I would love to learn more about it and, if I get enough free time with the YGO roleplay and the real life, I think I'll start by joining this Graterras reboot of yours if/when you get it on the road.

With this being said, I am not very knowledgeable of the matters you havetroubles with, so I cannot help you that much. One thing I can say however is this: as a non-expert of D&D, the idea of sub-classes, the very fact that it would be possible for two characters of the same class to be totally different from one another, is something that intrigues. In all these years of roleplaying, each and every roleplay I've seen that included classes was invariably plagued by the linear warriors, quadratic wizards trope, so yeah, I think that a sub-class system, and the versatility it would bring with it, would help mitigate this problem.

This is literally all I can contribute: good luck!

[Felicity]

I honestly couldn't say what were issues seeing as I wasn't a part of it, but from the sounds of it, the only thing I see was kinda irrelevant were the monstrous races. You can be creative with them, sure, but are they really necessary amongst all the other portions of the RP that kinda overwhelm you?

[Chevaleresse]

I feel like the class system should be fairly freeform rather than having set subclasses. You could give examples and guidelines, but I liked what Kurotsune did with Gaelach Basm; basically just left people to do what they felt like. Not saying that a class system is a bad idea (keeps everyone's relative power in check,) but it's not a be-all-end-all.

As far as races, I like playing odd things, but it's up to you.

[Yash]

While I haven't been a part of the original Graterras, I did read about it with the reroll thing.. I think it's a good idea to toss out a few races.. Too many races is like too many cooks.. It's gonna be chaotic.. Sub-classes are nice, since they give a better guideline yet allow a certain amount of freedom to people choosing classes.. As Murdoc said about Kurotsune's RP, there weren't any restictions, but we had 3-4 magic archers and basically ended up with no diversity.. With subclasses new ideas are introduced to players and would definitely help diversify the PCs.. Plus it can be considered as a compensation to the removal of the races..

As for the magic bit, I would suggest something similar to what was done in the reroll.. Only thing is you can give the restrictions on classes/sub-classes.. Keep very basic spells and magic stuff available to most/all and the more complex ones can be restricted based on the sub-class as a sort of specialisation.. Kind of what you did with Oohagan.. This makes it easier for people who have no D&D experience to manage playing the roles..

Also if there is a slot, I would totally be signing up!

[Flux]

Does this mean no more Nero? He was pretty much my favorite PC...

The only major problem I really saw with the original was, as you've said, the lack of guidelines for us magic users who were not familiar with DnD. I found myself unsure as to what my PC was capable of a lot of the time, and it was confusing to try to determine when I could have him learn a new spell. Other than that, I was pretty happy with the way things were.

[Kurotsune]

Hi. I won't vote as, honestly, I can't play. No time.

Also because of that, consider my opinion only a friend's advice. I'm not your target audience, neither should you appease me.

Introduction:

So, I am sure many of you know of my RP here that I ran for awhile by the name of Graterras: A World in Peril. While I enjoyed running that RP I did have some misgivings with how it was set-up. It was my first forum RP that I ran and I am still fond of the world it is set in. So, why leave things where they were? I am rebooting the RP and fixing up some features I wasn't too fond of. We are going to start by removing bloat or things I didn't feel fit anymore.

So, what is this thread? I wish to reboot Graterras and restart fresh. However, there is a few things I need eyes on other than my own. I know what I would like to do, but I wish to know what my players would want as well. I will outline them below quickly so that you get a bit of my point of view on them.

So without further ado, let's get this party started.

Playable Class and Race Changes:

I originally based Graterras off of 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons. This lead me to make the choices I did when I created the classes and races their restrictions etc... However, It felt a little muddled. I wanted to include some more monsterous races to show off a important dynamic in Graterras, that the Fantasy creatures that were typically portrayed as mindless monsters were not in Graterras. This is what lead me to include Orcs and Kobolds etc... However, I am not really sure I wish to keep them. They added a bunch of extra stuff that kinda felt like it wouldn't be used often. While I like to allow a lot of choice, sometimes too much choice is an issue.

Personally, I believe there's a difference between choice and optimization. If the races are being played, leave them as they are. If they aren't, remove them. Trimming the fat, so to speak, makes the game more concise and easier to understand, which in turn collaborates to the overall experience.

With classes, while I felt I did pretty well with the Templars, a lot of the others suffered quite a bit in my humble opinion. A lot of the Warrior ones were very similar and didn't feel very different from each other. Templars managed to stand out as they were fresh and new, sorta like special Paladins that existed only in Graterras. Graterras as a world focuses on Elementalism or that the elements themsleves live and burn themselves. The Templars are the embodiment of this Elementalism and I would like to keep them, but I feel I will fold them into the Paladin class. Like 5th Edition D and D, I would like to do a Sub-class system, one where classes can go in different directions from each other even while being the same class. It allows me to be less restrictive on the classes people play, and allows them to feel their character is different from another player's character that is of the same class. It also allows me to add a bit more flavour of my own. This system was already in place as well with the Templars, with there being 4 different types. It would not be much of a stretch to add it

Be careful with super-optimization. Creating too many too specialized classes often will lead to this exact scenario: Most classes are vastly different and yet are played completely the same, or the one class greatly outshines the others. The free-form system is not for everyone, but a subclass or perhaps multiclass system can bring the best of both worlds.

Magic:

Magic in Graterras has kinda been something I am not overly proud of. I wanted to try and emulate what D and D had for a magic system, but not have the player's have to know all the spells from it. However... It felt like I was cheating the players who choose magical classes. I didn't give them much direction with their characters, and I certainly didn't give them good guidelines towards what they could do and what they couldn't. However... There are a lot of spells in Dungeon and Dragons and with them they have a lot of numbers and are explained in game terms so players might be overwhelmed with a lot of info they don't need. It is something I am no sure what I want to do with because I don't feel the system I was using was fair, but I don't want to scare off players by providing the Spells used in D and D when while it gives them a good idea of what can and can't be done, it makes it tough to understand since those spells are explained with rolls and other mechanics that don't exist within a Forum RP.

Magic is the thing I feel the most strongly about in a roleplay. Magic is something we yearn for but lack and never will. It's the sensation of power, of being able to go beyond the norm, to play God. I'm personally against restricting it. The way I usually roleplay mages is the simple matter that they are limited only by their mana and their imagination. Any mage can create anything they want within their expertise, as well as manipulate it freely, but their limitations are their resources. An experienced wizard could conjure a gigantic meteor and have it dance through the sky, when a novice could only do as much as a pebble. Allowing magic to go unrestricted is a fairly non-issue in forum roleplaying since godmodding is controlled by the DM; People who want to roleplay as an overpowered god will do so in whichever system, and get shut down in both, so I don't think the cons are even nearly as weighty as the pros.

Conclusion:

However, I would like your guys input on the above to an extent. I want to know what you guys think. So, I ask that you please answer in the poll above. However, I want to know why you think such so please comment below. I don't know how many people it would scare off etc... if I did it so I want to know what the people who will probably be playing think rather than go ahead with it... and make a poor choice on my own. I like to know what potential players think because it is important. If they don't want to play that shows me that I need to see what they wish to see, what they want to change. ((please... no voting unless you comment at least something. I need the feedback more than the votes.))

Here is the link to the Original Graterras for those of you who aren't as knowledgeable or weren't around when it was going on for the most part. http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7827

I appreciate all the feedback that comes in and will be trying to ship this out as soon as I can. I don't like revealing my projects this early most times, however Graterras already has the bulk of what it was complete, therefore I don't really think it is that bad an idea to put it out there and see what the people think I should do. So, thank you for your time of reading, and I hope you have nice whatever time it is. And until next time, PLAY MORE ROLES!!! Hukuna Sensei out~

Nice Will Wheaton reference.

That's all xe wrote.

PS: As a side note

As Murdoc said about Kurotsune's RP, there weren't any restictions, but we had 3-4 magic archers and basically ended up with no diversity.. With subclasses new ideas are introduced to players and would definitely help diversify the PCs.. Plus it can be considered as a compensation to the removal of the races..

In the interest of discussion, I'd like to point out that is a gross exaggeration. It seems to imply there were four carbon-copy characters, when all characters were simply mages that used a bow as a weapon instead of a staff - when a bow is actually a very logical weapon for a wizard to use.

The characters also had different abilities, powers, and some (Wintershed) used the bow only as a weapon while others (Maya) used it directly as a catalyst for their spells and others (Roland and Ayla) actually didn't use magic at all. At the end of the day, it was the equivalent of me having a magic archer class and four people picking it. It's not a consequence of the system, it's a consequence of player choice.

Nothing beats free-form in terms of diversity; Subclasses expand upon the diversity of the class system, but they are only a middle-ground, not a better choice (in terms of the possibility of character diversity).

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I'm and probably going to incorporate the spells into the Sub-classes that way you have more clarity on your spells and an idea of when you get them etc... So, hopefully... that will be a bit more clear. I am reworking a lot of the systems hopefully it I can make the magic users a nice class with some direction and play better.

[Zephyrus the Priestess]

GRATERRAS, HOW I MISSED YOU SO <3

... okay, I can't think of anything else to add that's insightful and that's not been said yet. Although, limiting the choices of races would make it easier for the player to decide what they want to play as. Having a lot of unfamiliar but interesting options was kinda overwhelming, personally, back during the Sign-Ups.