[OOC] Fate/Full Moon

[rustytengo]

Yeah in agreement with Hukuna here very interesting and Good Job on finding a lancer who fits nicely within the class. Though poor Caster she is the only lady who has to deal with all of these big burly men.

It's interesting if not sprawled out. There's a page on a Wiki about his death and the three menaces but I found more info on books and little inserts on pages. It took a while just because a decent Lancer was hard to find and when I did, I kept finding more and more information just when I thought I was done.

trust me that happens a lot when you make a servant.

I really want to see an artist rendition of all of our servants now.

Hmm..need to figure out some fun titles for all are servants now.(like Gilgamesh, the King of Heroes)

Edited November 2, 2014 by rustytengo

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

To be fair though Rusty, a lot fo other Fate stuff would have been pretty dude heavy if they didn't genderbend a few of them lol.

((honestly makes me wonder if I should genderbend Macbeth lol, for the reason that his wife was the one that spurred him to action. I don;t really think it is a thing I want to do though lol.))

[Flynn]

Celtchar's title in life was the "Terrible Hero" as everything heroic he performed was brutal and harsh. He saved a king by impaling nine men with one lance throw, he crucified a demon through it's feet with broadswords. He shoved his hand down a monster's throat and ripped its heart out.

But yeah, he's actually a pretty nice guy.

[Sheep]

Before I say anything I want you to know that I don't like doing this, and I'm not doing it to give myself a better chance of winning. I just want to see all of the servants portrayed as accurately as possible.

I've got some issues with Lancer. I love the character in general, with a brief skim over his legend I can tell he's an awesome warrior but I can't help but think he's too strong. You've given him physical stats of A/A/B. To be quite frank that's ridiculous. Fate/Stay Night Lancer and Fate/Apocrypha Lancer of Red are both demigods with lower stats than that, summoned into the same class. This guy, unless I'm missing something, is human and his stats should probably reflect that. Also, the strongest stat for Lancer class servants has always been agility, though if you want to mix that up because your interpretation of your character is different then that's your prerogative.

You also seem to be under the impression that Battle Continuation is a class skill of Lancer. It isn't. Fate/Zero Lancer and both Fate/Apocrypha Lancers don't have it, the only class skill for Lancer class servants is Magic Resistance. That aside, I don't see any reason in his legend for him to have it, though his legend is pretty bare bones so there's not a lot we can pull out of it.

You'll have to explain the "posts" thing with Lancer's spear 'cause I don't get it.

As the spear is ranked A+ should we take that to be it's maximum damage output when used with "For One's Kingdom"? It's acceptable if it is, A+ is damn high.

I'm very hesitant to say the least about calling the poison he's using with his spear EX ranked in potency. That's equivalent in strength to Alexander's entire army, or Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon. Can you really justify it being that strong?

Other than that the guy sounds really cool. I love the switching between poison and fire on his spear, and his skills sound formidable. I just can't help but feel it's gone a bit overboard.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

oh and title-wise, Macbeth would be probably the "King of Madness.", or "The Scottish King". ((the second in reference to what actor's call him to avoid bringing the curse back.))

((and Sheep Battle Continuation is listed under their class skills on the wiki due to something with one of the Fate things. [forget which] listing it as such, so it would be easy to assume that it was.))

[Sheep]

Yeah, Fate/Extra lists it as a class skill, but Extra is pretty much the least canon thing out there when it comes to Fate. Nothing else does, though I can understand the misconception.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Yea, that is why I can understand getting confused. ((though he could possibly have it, I am not familiar with the legends.))

[rustytengo]

Lancer is the most under developed class for the most part(mainly there hasn't been a Fate consternating on any Lancer). So it hard to balance them.

Class skill wise if its For lancer battle continuation is what most things say for lancer(other web sites that are just for Fate RP's) .Plus Magic Resistance(all three knight classes and rider get it) though theirs is usually the second highest next to Saber whose Class Skill is mainly Magic Resistance. I don't mind his lancer having it though it probably could be lower.

the Perimeters yeah if your betting out a Demigod hero as a Normal man then yeah they are to high.

the post are like actually post in terms of the RP after he post five times during a battle his servant will weaken and so forth.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

yea after checking Battle Continuation on the Wiki......A is way too high, C is probably more appropriate if he has it at all.

[Bfroger6]

From what I gathered about Flynn's Lancer, he does seem like a guy whose main stats would be Strenght and Enduramce, rather than Agility. Maybe it is a bit too strong though.

And I've checked Rin's Archer, and his melee stats (Strenght, Endurance, Agility) are listed as D/C/C, the same as my Rider's, and he aint half bad in combat. That gave me a bit more hope for my Servant after you guys told me D/C/C sucks big time

(I've watched the UBW Prologue. Rin still bothers me but everything else is pretty awesome ~)

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Archer is a very special case, and his attributes don't really reflect his true power. He is powerful in ways those stats cannot show. I am trying not to spoil much, but lets just say Rin's Archer isn't the norm so he should never be used as a benchmark for anything, because he is an outlier. ((why are there so many weird spirits summoned in the Fifth Grail War?)). ((I could go into this, however it would be massive spoilers, so we should drop any convo on Archer after mentioning that, since he is one of those characters you can't really talk about without spoiling a hell of a lot of plot.))

Keep in mind, that Flynn also said that he would be better summoned as a Rider ((at least with the one personal skill, the one that made him have kinship with animals.)), this could explain his strange affinity for other stats as that he hasn't been summoned in the optimal class. ((think Herc, Herc is pretty held back by being summoned as berserker in terms of his NP power since he loses the ones he most likely would have had as Archer, or another class. Bluebeard also was summoned under an inoptimal class, being Caster. [though he is another anomaly, another spirit who shouldn't have been summoned at all, but due to his master's ineptitude, and his masters outlook, ended up being summoned anyway.]))

And keep in mind guys, the reason Grail Wars are so dangerous is quite literally every servant is god damn op. Like literally, in anything else, Servants would be considered broken as hell. But since 7 broken as hell guys are fighting each other, it balances out sorta. ((Assassin typically gets the super short end of the stick, but eh....)). Watch any fight scene in the Ufotable Adaption.....literally things are blowing up in like episode 2.....not to mention the craters being left everywhere. ((makes me wonder how the bloody hell nobody notices.....apparently in the world of anime, people can't see or hear explosions if they are not involved in any way, UNTIL, said recognizing them becomes plot relevant.....))

[Bfroger6]

Haha, its just that I seriously came to think Rider would have to friggin' hide all the time and whatnot just to keep himself from getting killed. I suppose the end of that prologue showed me what exactly Servants are capable of. And I'm well aware of everything regarding Archer (I had to spoilerify myself while investigating before the beggining of this rp).

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Keep in mind, Servants are much much more powerful then you average joe. Hell, most masters couldn't even harm a Servant if they tried. ((some could, but they would be at such a disadvantage it wouldn't even be funny.)).

[Chim]

I decided to use Sheep's suggestions. Servant and Master:

Name: Vincent LeRoi (French: Vinsan)

Age: 22

Appearance: 172 cm, 75 kg, shaved his head when he received his command seals but used to have brown hair. He has cold grey eyes and wears glasses. He has a muscular build and trains his body daily.

Personality: Twisted and selfish. He used to be a nice kid but people always took advantage of him. He’s been bullied in his teen years for different reasons. He was quiet and an easy target. Some kids laughed with his goofy looking glasses, his second rate clothes (he comes from a poor family) or because of his acne. If he tried to fight back he got beat up multiple times. He tried not to think about the bullying by reading stories of conquests and kings building empires. He dreamt about having his own empire where everyone had to respect him, but never tried anything to stand up and deal with his problems. He had no confidence but with a powerful Servant and the Grail backing him up, he believes he can conquer the world. After all he received those Seals as a sign.

During the past 10 years or so Vincent developed a vengeful and twisted personality. He holds grudges for a very long time and swears someday he will have his revenge. He doesn’t value human life in the slightest and doesn’t care how many people he has to kill.

Nationality: French

A trifle of trivia: Loves history and especially the stories about conquests and kings building an empire. He hoped to summon one of them that lived in Europe but failed since he doesn’t have a relic. He doesn’t know much about Japan so it’ll be awkward when he first meets his Servant.

Elemental Affinity and preferred Magecraft: Fire and runes

Command Seals: A crown made out of three circles. The top circles contain the ‘jewelry’ that’s usually found on a crown. The Seals are located on his right arm under the elbow.

MA: Yes please.

Servant

Spirit: Hattori Hanzo

Class: Assassin

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Strength: B

Agility: A+

Endurance: C

Mana: D

Luck: D

Noble Phantasm: B

Class Skills

Presence Concealment: A+

Personal Skills

Clairvoyance: EX

Disengage: B

Eye of the Mind (True): B

Military Tactics: C

Noble Phantasms

State of Zen: B rank, anti-unit. By completely focusing on his mindset he can slow down incoming attacks with the use of psychokinesis in all directions leaving openings for him to dodge and / or strike back.

Instant Transmission: B rank, anti-unit. Allows for instantaneous movement through space at the cost of mana

[Flynn]

I posted Lancer how he is for exactly this kind of critique. How does A/B/C sound? I set his Strength at A due to his legend. A normal Lancer has C Strength and A Agi, yet from the legend, Luin (the lance) is described as being so heavy and massive it took a team of oxen to lift. Also, Celtchar was never described as slow or lunking and was rather famous for his ability to wield Luin, and actually quite efficiently. Wielding a lance that heavy with particular ease I believe was standard for A Strength, yet considering the weight, I lowered his Agi one rank. If you're still skeptical, a heroic spirit's parameters are affected by their fame and legend if I recall correctly. Although if it were lowered to A/B/C, the condition for Luin might be removed, being the "lose one rank of Endurance every five of the user's posts if the lance remains ignited". The lance itself takes a toll on the user after a while considering it will infinitely gain power through flame. I ranked the initial NP A+ due to its basic principle since it's more or less a flaming nuke stick. It's awesome, just not very diverse. The power growth maxes with the user's capabilities. With both Endurance A and Heat Resistance A, that already insinuates a tremendous amount of power that continuously grows. I had originally planned to label it as D to EX depending on the charge, in which I would definitely compare it to GoB or Ionian Hetairoi when highly charged but that felt like it would confuse people.

I can agree that Battle Continuation at an A can be lowered to a C. Magic Resistance I feel is comfortable at D, however.

Celtchar's vat of poison was regarded as the devil's own piss (or blood depending on which story you prefer) in where anything that came in contact was disintegrated, man, magic, or steel. It was so powerful it was the only force that could extinguish Luin once lit, and kept it in check. Ionian Hetairoi and GoB are EX considering their variability, capability, and parameters. I would like to say the poison itself stands on par but it lacks overall variability and capability. Its utilization is sub-par. I don't particularly mind either way what it is ranked, so I'll ask what you guys think?

[rustytengo]

Well it looks to me that Flynn has good justification for why he made lancer the way he did. So aside from changing the battle continuation he should be fine.

[Sheep]

I posted Lancer how he is for exactly this kind of critique. How does A/B/C sound?

A/B/C is a rearrangement of the stats that Cuchulain has. Cuchulain being a demigod, with significantly more fame (and probably ability) than Celtchar. However, if those are the stats you want I won't stop you. It is after all your character to make, and Bfroger's to approve, I'm just trying to help make it reasonable.

Although if it were lowered to A/B/C, the condition for Luin might be removed, being the "lose one rank of Endurance every five of the user's posts if the lance remains ignited". The lance itself takes a toll on the user after a while considering it will infinitely gain power through flame.

Honestly I'd drop the whole penalty thing. To me the lance sounds like a weapon of deadly power, which can ultimately backfire (pun intended) on it's wielder. I think it's enough for it to kill the wielder by burning them alive if left unquenched for too long. For that reason I question his fire resistance. Was that just to make him immune to his own lance's effects or do you have some other reason for him to have it? 'Cause that kind of takes away the risk aspect of wielding it, and the risk is a huge part of the lance's story.

I had originally planned to label it as D to EX depending on the charge, in which I would definitely compare it to GoB or Ionian Hetairoi when highly charged but that felt like it would confuse people.

I'd label it as D to EX, and then make sure how powerful it is is clear each time you're about to use it.

I can agree that Battle Continuation at an A can be lowered to a C.

Grumble grumble not a class skill grumble grumble. I dunno, ultimately it's up to you.

Celtchar's vat of poison was regarded as the devil's own piss (or blood depending on which story you prefer) in where anything that came in contact was disintegrated, man, magic, or steel. It was so powerful it was the only force that could extinguish Luin once lit, and kept it in check. Ionian Hetairoi and GoB are EX considering their variability, capability, and parameters. I would like to say the poison itself stands on par but it lacks overall variability and capability. Its utilization is sub-par. I don't particularly mind either way what it is ranked, so I'll ask what you guys think?

If you're saying that it'll kill a servant with a single drop then it should be EX ranked. I'm assuming it can't be applied to the invisible blade at the tip though? Would kind of defeat the purpose of that part being invisible.

[Flynn]

A/B/C is a rearrangement of the stats that Cuchulain has. Cuchulain being a demigod, with significantly more fame (and probably ability) than Celtchar. However, if those are the stats you want I won't stop you. It is after all your character to make, and Bfroger's to approve, I'm just trying to help make it reasonable.

Honestly I'd drop the whole penalty thing. To me the lance sounds like a weapon of deadly power, which can ultimately backfire (pun intended) on it's wielder. I think it's enough for it to kill the wielder by burning them alive if left unquenched for too long. For that reason I question his fire resistance. Was that just to make him immune to his own lance's effects or do you have some other reason for him to have it? 'Cause that kind of takes away the risk aspect of wielding it, and the risk is a huge part of the lance's story.

I'd label it as D to EX, and then make sure how powerful it is is clear each time you're about to use it.

Grumble grumble not a class skill grumble grumble. I dunno, ultimately it's up to you.

If you're saying that it'll kill a servant with a single drop then it should be EX ranked. I'm assuming it can't be applied to the invisible blade at the tip though? Would kind of defeat the purpose of that part being invisible.

Pardon my lack of know-how in regards to the specific quotations.

A re-arrangement doesn't seem too far off considering the base stats and legend. (I made a mistake earlier saying a Lancer's base strength is C, it's actually B from what I'm reading on the Wiki). A Lancer's base retainer stats are Strength B/ Endurance C/ Agility A. Diarmuid Ua Duibhne has those exact same stats except Agility as A+ while also not having any kind of divine aspects. Having Celtchar with Strength A/ Endurance B/ and Agility C reflects Lancer's base retainer stats while also giving homage to his prowess.

The reason Celtchar's personal skill is Heat Resistance is because of exactly his weapon. Fighting battle after battle with a weapon that continuously grows in heat, I feel it would logically begin to create a resistance through repeated exposure. The penalty is there to somewhat replicate that aspect. Celtchar being the only one being able to wield it as any other man simply passed out of heat exhaustion (or inability to lift Luin). I could make it that he can simply wield it for fifteen posts or his life comes into risk, or consciousness, but I feel the "lose a rank of endurance every five posts" reflects the toll it takes on the user. The risk, you could say. The greater the power it offers, the heavier the cost, lowering his Endurance the further he powers up. Risk reward. I come from a RP community where post limits are mandatory for nearly everything, but I do feel that it applies here as well in this specific instance.

I'll label it as D to EX depending on the charge and state the rank when required.

Grumble grumble it's on the Wiki and Fate/ Extra's canon can be nitpicked plus I need it to be less noob grumble grumble... Just seems to fit.

If I want to play my own violin (or rather Celtchar's) I would puff out my chest and say that I think it can kill a Servant if they decide to put their head in or drink it. And no, it cannot be applied to the invisible tip. I mean, ranking it EX and having a second Noble Phantasm that ranks D and gains rank with time doesn't seem too severe. But, as Fate/ tends to bend history in order for it to work, I'm not against changing the aspects of the poison and/or how it works. It won't exactly break the character, so.

[Sheep]

Pardon my lack of know-how in regards to the specific quotations.

Spam the quote button. All you need to do is hit quote on whatever you want to quote again and then delete the unnecessary parts.

A Lancer's base retainer stats are Strength B/ Endurance C/ Agility A. Diarmuid Ua Duibhne has those exact same stats except Agility as A+ while also not having any kind of divine aspects.

The base stats are more of a guideline than a hard base as I've seen. There have been servants that have dipped below those very base stats before. As for Diarmuid, it did puzzle me initially but then I realized his master is probably the most competent of all of them so far.

The reason Celtchar's personal skill is Heat Resistance is because of exactly his weapon. Fighting battle after battle with a weapon that continuously grows in heat, I feel it would logically begin to create a resistance through repeated exposure. The penalty is there to somewhat replicate that aspect. Celtchar being the only one being able to wield it as any other man simply passed out of heat exhaustion (or inability to lift Luin). I could make it that he can simply wield it for fifteen posts or his life comes into risk, or consciousness, but I feel the "lose a rank of endurance every five posts" reflects the toll it takes on the user. The risk, you could say. The greater the power it offers, the heavier the cost, lowering his Endurance the further he powers up. Risk reward. I come from a RP community where post limits are mandatory for nearly everything, but I do feel that it applies here as well in this specific instance.

In that case how does it kill him? If he's immune to fire what exactly does the spear do to him? Also, seeing as accounts of the spear almost seem as if it is alive (and has significant blood lust as you already know) I wouldn't be against it having an effect through which it will actively seek out it's target. No Gae Bolg style crazyness, in the hands of a master it likely wouldn't add anything but it would be pretty neat fluff, that's just how the spear comes across to me.

[rustytengo]

From what i read both Cuchulain and Celtchar share a lot if similarities. quite a lot actually. From the same country and city(Ulster) both have a thing about dogs, both wield crazy blood lusting spears of doom.

[Flynn]

Spam the quote button. All you need to do is hit quote on whatever you want to quote again and then delete the unnecessary parts.

Like this?

The base stats are more of a guideline than a hard base as I've seen. There have been servants that have dipped below those very base stats before. As for Diarmuid, it did puzzle me initially but then I realized his master is probably the most competent of all of them so far.

Hels Kurgis is a mini Kirei Kotomine with a helping of Hallelujah Haptism. I wouldn't say he's a master mage but he is naturally gifted. It's the only reason he was initially emancipated from the streets and raised as a priest. His status is literally the same as Kirei Kotomine. A representative from the Holy Church offered to the Mage's Association as a tool of cooperation. Despite the similarities, it was just the base I'm using. But anyways, he is decently gifted and professionally taught.

In that case how does it kill him? If he's immune to fire what exactly does the spear do to him? Also, seeing as accounts of the spear almost seem as if it is alive (and has significant blood lust as you already know) I wouldn't be against it having an effect through which it will actively seek out it's target. No Gae Bolg style crazyness, in the hands of a master it likely wouldn't add anything but it would be pretty neat fluff, that's just how the spear comes across to me.

He isn't immune to heat and fire, just severely resistant. It's more of a requirement to even wield Luin e Celtchar. The resistance only goes so far, say fifteen consecutive posts. That time is basically spent in pure combat, before requiring to reset the power gained or die. If anyone else tried to steal Luin and use it against him, they'd find themselves in hot water. Or if they got too close during a high charge, the pure heat would hinder them. Not lethally, but it might make you dizzy or something.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I figured that was what the resistance was for, lets say that normal fire doesn't do much, but Magical Fire is a different story. ((such with his Lance, while he may be able to bare it at first eventually he will lose out. And I assume anybody using FIre magic on him iwll have it be pretty effective, though nobody is using Fire magic in this RP to my knowledge.))

[rustytengo]

Chim's character is using fire and rune magic, and caster is capable of it(though she really doesn't use much Magecraft)

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

oh whoops, must have missed it. Is everyone using runes but Nadia lol?

[rustytengo]

I'm not instead using Witchcraft just because curses are fun to use. but yeah a lot of people are using runes(probably because its something they understand a bit easier then the other stuff)