The Dual Prophecies

[KmK]

In GDC in the underground there's a fortune teller who says this about your future:

"This... this future I see before me, it's very worrying. I see you on top of a tall castle, oh yes. But this castle is different from what you've come across beforehand. A battle begins that will decide the fate of each and every person in this world. I can see golden light surrounding the area... I can see your friends nearby. Three of them to be exact. One with a soul as gold as arceus' light. One with the resolve to lead others. One who fights for a lost loved one. Before them stands a female. She fights to bring the world to her knees. To destroy everything and everyone. To make sure nothing of this world passes on. But what happens next. What happens next. That, not even I can know." And then the crystal ball shatters. 

 

As for the light prophecy: it seems like most people agree that the MC and Melia are two of the lights.

I have a theory for the other two: the lights are four lights not born of men. So by purely looking at the characters we know for sure are not born of men, I come up with Zetta and ANA. Zetta used to be a solosis, so he's not born from men, but from pokemon. ANA is an android, so she isn't born from men either. Of course, it's also possible that there are other characters not born from men and we just don't know it yet. We don't meet/know the parents of most characters, so almost anyone is possible. I just think Zetta and ANA are currently the only ones we know aren't born form men.

So there's the MC plus three others who (from the fortune teller):

One has a soul as gold as arceus' light. Melia? Maria(nette)'s father's cult seems to have something to do with Arceus?

One has the resolve to lead others. ??? Yeah, I have nothing for this one...

One fights for a lost loved one. Maybe Melia fighting for Venam cause she's turned to stone? It depends on what's meant with lost. Is the lost loved one dead? Missing? Or maybe he/she's lost the right path and is the lost loved one actually one of the darknessess.

 

As for the dark prophecy: most people seem to agree Ren is one. One character that hasn't been mentioned yet as a possibility is Aelita. In some sort of flashback Erin explains what happened to Aelita and how she woke up form her coma. Apperently to break the curse Erin's grandfather also had to release the chains around her soul. During the proces Aelita wakes up and goes kind phycho. Erin says that Aelita was awful after she woke up. Aelita broke things, damaged the place, attacked the kimono girls, she tried to attack innocent bystanders on route 9. It only stopped when Erin's grandfather re-attached some of the chains and he told Aelita to recite a prayer every 24 hours. Aelita didn't seem to remember any of this. And the puppet master was quite insistend that the MC and Aelita were reunited. Idk, it just seems like there's an evil side to Aelita...

[FairFamily]

6 hours ago, KmK said:

In GDC in the underground there's a fortune teller who says this about your future:

"This... this future I see before me, it's very worrying. I see you on top of a tall castle, oh yes. But this castle is different from what you've come across beforehand. A battle begins that will decide the fate of each and every person in this world. I can see golden light surrounding the area... I can see your friends nearby. Three of them to be exact. One with a soul as gold as arceus' light. One with the resolve to lead others. One who fights for a lost loved one. Before them stands a female. She fights to bring the world to her knees. To destroy everything and everyone. To make sure nothing of this world passes on. But what happens next. What happens next. That, not even I can know." And then the crystal ball shatters. 

 

As for the light prophecy: it seems like most people agree that the MC and Melia are two of the lights.

I have a theory for the other two: the lights are four lights not born of men. So by purely looking at the characters we know for sure are not born of men, I come up with Zetta and ANA. Zetta used to be a solosis, so he's not born from men, but from pokemon. ANA is an android, so she isn't born from men either. Of course, it's also possible that there are other characters not born from men and we just don't know it yet. We don't meet/know the parents of most characters, so almost anyone is possible. I just think Zetta and ANA are currently the only ones we know aren't born form men.

So there's the MC plus three others who (from the fortune teller):

One has a soul as gold as arceus' light. Melia? Maria(nette)'s father's cult seems to have something to do with Arceus?

One has the resolve to lead others. ??? Yeah, I have nothing for this one...

One fights for a lost loved one. Maybe Melia fighting for Venam cause she's turned to stone? It depends on what's meant with lost. Is the lost loved one dead? Missing? Or maybe he/she's lost the right path and is the lost loved one actually one of the darknessess.

 

As for the dark prophecy: most people seem to agree Ren is one. One character that hasn't been mentioned yet as a possibility is Aelita. In some sort of flashback Erin explains what happened to Aelita and how she woke up form her coma. Apperently to break the curse Erin's grandfather also had to release the chains around her soul. During the proces Aelita wakes up and goes kind phycho. Erin says that Aelita was awful after she woke up. Aelita broke things, damaged the place, attacked the kimono girls, she tried to attack innocent bystanders on route 9. It only stopped when Erin's grandfather re-attached some of the chains and he told Aelita to recite a prayer every 24 hours. Aelita didn't seem to remember any of this. And the puppet master was quite insistend that the MC and Aelita were reunited. Idk, it just seems like there's an evil side to Aelita...

Well the one with resolve to lead others could be Aelita as she wants to be the sensei of Sheridan. One fights for a lost loved one could be Rhodea I suppose. 

ANA is a nano drive I'm not sure if she has a soul I mean Nancy doesn't have one.

 

For the dark prophecy it could be Aelita. Perhaps she will in a desperate attempt use the soul splitting technique to rid herself of her evil side.

[Gentleman Jaggi]

Aelita's recent psychotic episode seems to point her towards being one of the darknesses, but there also seems to be some ambiguity around whether or not she's really Keta's daughter. So I wouldn't rule her out as a potential light just yet.

Zetta seems like a good candidate for one of the lights; there's still too much going on with him for him to be stuck with Crescent, plus his appearance in Nightmare City makes clear that he doesn't want to be remembered only for the bad things that he's done so far.

ANA's definitely not born of man, but so far she only appears in a sidequest, so I'm not sure how integrating her into the story would go. (On the other hand the Hidden Library questline is optional as well, and yet Karen, Alice and Alan all show up in the story.) She could also be ruled out in that, in a sense, she actually is born of man, because it was humans that created her.

 

 

Actually, thinking about who could fit what role is pretty confusing with how many characters there are so far, so I'll try and list all the characters that have taken any action in the main plot so far: Spoilered because that's a lot of names and a lot of attempting to cut the list down on people we can actually talk about with more certainty than "might", "could" and "maybe".

Spoiler

 

Maria, Indriad, the protagonist, Nancy, Crescent, Madelis, (A)Nastasia, Jenner, Melia, Ren, Venam, Zetta, Eli, Sharon, Nim, Keta, Aelita, Mosley, Narcissa, Geara/Gregory, Saki, Valarie, Braixen, Adam, Neved, Madame X, Amber, Tesla, Angie, Cera, Kreiss, Reina, Dranna (Mewtwo), Spacea, Tiempa, Kanon, Black Gardevoir, Anathea, Erick, Krystal, Flora, Florin, Erin, Sandra/Rhodea, Huey, Cassandra, Lavender, Cosmia, Comet, Puppetmaster(s)...

Did i get them all? Because that's a whole lot. Of those, Nancy, Keta, Jenner and Anathea are dead (as far as we know), Eli and Sharon might not make it much longer (or could be dead/whatever gets done to disposed Grunts by now) and Geara apparentally got something terrible done to him as punishment.

Mosley, Narcissa, the Blacksteeple gang, Amber, Tesla, Reina, Erick, Erin and Huey were so far really only involved due to circumstances they found themselves in. Flora and Florin are so far only involved in the Bladestar plot, so depending on how that goes on they might end up being unimportant in the end.

Crescent, Madame X, Spacea, Tiempa, Black Gardevoir and the Puppetmaster are basically big question marks right now; their motives, affiliations, true natures and abilities are unknown. They're entities of sort driving the plot without disclosing much of anything to us. We similarly don't know anything about Comet and Cosmia, but that's mostly because we haven't seen much of them. Angie is similar too; while we do know something about her motives (somethingsomethingARSHEEEUS) we don't know anything about her past or possible connection with anyone else. At the very least she probably isn't allied with Team Xen, because she's hinted to have been the one that stole Rift Matter from them.

The exact involvement of Nim, Kreiss, Krystal, Rhodea, Cassandra and Lavender is also unknown so far.

 

That leaves us with Maria, Indriad, the Protagonist, Madelis, (A)Nastasia, Melia, Ren, Venam, Zetta, Aelita, Geara, Neved, and Kanon as characters that are personally involved in the plot and who we know enough about to make some definite statements. I'll go out on a limb and claim that the four lights will most likely come from that group, while the four darknesses might either be four out of those as well, or none of them. Assuming the four lights and darknesses can all be found within that group, that would leave the aforementioned "entities" leading the plot as bearing no part in the dual prophecies.

Actually, we might have to add the protagonist to that list of entities. The Puppetmaster calls them Interceptor, although it's ambigous if they're truly the one addressed, or if they're the host to the one called the Interceptor. (i.e. us - that'd be some Bravely Default/Undertale sort of meta right there.) Crescent saves them atop Valour Mountain, but also repeatedly tells them to not get involved. Finally past Madame X only knows them as important, but does not know for what reason. Interestingly present Madame X earlier seemed to have no qualms about attempting to murder the protagonist. It's possible these two might be different entities with different goals or with different amounts of knowledge about the situation. It's also possible that they might have earned their importance in whichever way through their actions inbetween those two meetings.

Thinking about that, the major events in that timeframe were the whole situation with Angie and the whole Valour Mountain part. None of those seems like it would significantly alter the protagonist's standing regarding how important they are to the world's fate; there's only one event that stands out, namely the fact that they died on top of Valour Mountain, and that Crescent brought them back somehow.

I'm... not sure I managed to get anywhere with this trail of thought. I guess I'll just leave it here as food for thought and come back to it later, when I'll hopefully have managed to order my thoughts a bit better.

 

 

There's one thing I'd like to point out about the various prophecies that were brought up here:

We've got the Dual Prophecies, one talking about four lights and one about four darknesses. Then we've got the Puppetmaster's prophecy mentioning eight souls that "shine like gold", so according to this there are actually eight lights and not just four. Finally the fortune teller's prophecy talks about the protagonist and three others - presumably they're four lights, since one of them is described as having a soul that shines with Arceus's light - facing off against only one enemy in a decisive battle. Presumably that one would be one of the darknesses, but the dark prophecy clearly states that there's four of them who will rule. Would this mean that the one person the lights are facing is somehow four darknesses at once? If so, is that because the four darknesses all assimilated themselves into a single being, or are we maybe talking about four instances of the same person? We've already met two apparentally different instances of Madame X, then there's the whole thing with Melia, Maria and Marianette. Maria notably seems to be the only good character so far that has some mysterious powers much like some of the antagonists - Melia also had that "What did you eat for breakfast?!" moment with some Xen Grunts before V9, but that was removed. We've still got Angie's failed ritual, but being inside a Dimensional Rift already means that things are weird. (Nim's and Krystal's abilities seem more like standard Psychic powers to me.)

Safe to say there's something going on with that quartet of Maria, Melia, Madame x and Crescent and I feel like we'll barely be able to be sure of anything before more about them is revealed.

[Nyarth]

Oooh, theories. All of these are good.

 

My personal interpretation of them is that they are actually kind of misleading. If I remember correctly, the Pokemon to represent the Light Prophecy was a Gardevoir, and the one for the Dark Prophecy is an Absol. We've only seen one of these take part in the main story so far, and that was the Gardevoir from the past, who was obviously very significant and incredibly powerful for whatever reason. And she was sort of evil, wasn't she?

 

So what I think is that the Light Prophecy is actually something bad, or just morally wrong, and the people apart of it are likewise. If that's the case, the Dark Prophecy may be the good one or just overall better, and it's people are the true "good guys". 

 

Another jumping-over-the-shark theory is that Ren isn't the Prophecy of Betrayal. Because he really wasn't a traitor--Crescent was the one that gave him the idea of joining Team Xen to begin with. And it just seems way too obvious to begin with, as it was literally stated within the story of the game. If he still is the traitor, I'll admittedly be a bit disappointed but that's besides the point.

 

So who fits that status quo better than Ren? I would say Kanon. Him ditching the protagonists side and doing evil stuff would be an actual blow and a bit deeper of a betrayal than Ren. He's already been given a few implications of being a traitor to begin with, with him screwing around with Garufan stuff and people worrying about him doing so. I would be a little sad though. I like Kanon!

 

Those are just my thoughts though

[FairFamily]

That's a but load of text:

18 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

Aelita's recent psychotic episode seems to point her towards being one of the darknesses, but there also seems to be some ambiguity around whether or not she's really Keta's daughter. So I wouldn't rule her out as a potential light just yet.

Zetta seems like a good candidate for one of the lights; there's still too much going on with him for him to be stuck with Crescent, plus his appearance in Nightmare City makes clear that he doesn't want to be remembered only for the bad things that he's done so far.

ANA's definitely not born of man, but so far she only appears in a sidequest, so I'm not sure how integrating her into the story would go. (On the other hand the Hidden Library questline is optional as well, and yet Karen, Alice and Alan all show up in the story.) She could also be ruled out in that, in a sense, she actually is born of man, because it was humans that created her.

 

Aelita also fits he normal claivoyants vision as tehe one aspiring to lead. Zetta got a huge boost in chracter involvement so I see him as a pontential light canidate. Ana I don't think so to be honest. Especially if she doesn't have a soul like Nancy.

 

Spoiler

18 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

Maria, Indriad, the protagonist, Nancy, Crescent, Madelis, (A)Nastasia, Jenner, Melia, Ren, Venam, Zetta, Eli, Sharon, Nim, Keta, Aelita, Mosley, Narcissa, Geara/Gregory, Saki, Valarie, Braixen, Adam, Neved, Madame X, Amber, Tesla, Angie, Cera, Kreiss, Reina, Dranna (Mewtwo), Spacea, Tiempa, Kanon, Black Gardevoir, Anathea, Erick, Krystal, Flora, Florin, Erin, Sandra/Rhodea, Huey, Cassandra, Lavender, Cosmia, Comet, Puppetmaster(s)...

Did i get them all? Because that's a whole lot. Of those, Nancy, Keta, Jenner and Anathea are dead (as far as we know), Eli and Sharon might not make it much longer (or could be dead/whatever gets done to disposed Grunts by now) and Geara apparentally got something terrible done to him as punishment.

Mosley, Narcissa, the Blacksteeple gang, Amber, Tesla, Reina, Erick, Erin and Huey were so far really only involved due to circumstances they found themselves in. Flora and Florin are so far only involved in the Bladestar plot, so depending on how that goes on they might end up being unimportant in the end.

Crescent, Madame X, Spacea, Tiempa, Black Gardevoir and the Puppetmaster are basically big question marks right now; their motives, affiliations, true natures and abilities are unknown. They're entities of sort driving the plot without disclosing much of anything to us. We similarly don't know anything about Comet and Cosmia, but that's mostly because we haven't seen much of them. Angie is similar too; while we do know something about her motives (somethingsomethingARSHEEEUS) we don't know anything about her past or possible connection with anyone else. At the very least she probably isn't allied with Team Xen, because she's hinted to have been the one that stole Rift Matter from them.

The exact involvement of Nim, Kreiss, Krystal, Rhodea, Cassandra and Lavender is also unknown so far.

Geara is probably dead/ corrupted. Cassandra made the analogy with the usb drive for a reason. Basically Crescent blew up the teleportation station immeditely after Geara was sent. So basically geara's entire body structure got corrupted.

 

18 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

That leaves us with Maria, Indriad, the Protagonist, Madelis, (A)Nastasia, Melia, Ren, Venam, Zetta, Aelita, Geara, Neved, and Kanon as characters that are personally involved in the plot and who we know enough about to make some definite statements. I'll go out on a limb and claim that the four lights will most likely come from that group, while the four darknesses might either be four out of those as well, or none of them. Assuming the four lights and darknesses can all be found within that group, that would leave the aforementioned "entities" leading the plot as bearing no part in the dual prophecies.

Actually, we might have to add the protagonist to that list of entities. The Puppetmaster calls them Interceptor, although it's ambigous if they're truly the one addressed, or if they're the host to the one called the Interceptor. (i.e. us - that'd be some Bravely Default/Undertale sort of meta right there.) Crescent saves them atop Valour Mountain, but also repeatedly tells them to not get involved. Finally past Madame X only knows them as important, but does not know for what reason. Interestingly present Madame X earlier seemed to have no qualms about attempting to murder the protagonist. It's possible these two might be different entities with different goals or with different amounts of knowledge about the situation. It's also possible that they might have earned their importance in whichever way through their actions inbetween those two meetings.

Thinking about that, the major events in that timeframe were the whole situation with Angie and the whole Valour Mountain part. None of those seems like it would significantly alter the protagonist's standing regarding how important they are to the world's fate; there's only one event that stands out, namely the fact that they died on top of Valour Mountain, and that Crescent brought them back somehow.

I'm... not sure I managed to get anywhere with this trail of thought. I guess I'll just leave it here as food for thought and come back to it later, when I'll hopefully have managed to order my thoughts a bit better.

Uhm , I wouldn't take Madame X's action as a good indicator because there might multiple Madame X in the game. In Amethyst cave we saw a machine that created a Madame X "doll", It wasn't functional but there elements of the process missing. So it is very difficult to say who or what Madame X is.

 

18 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

There's one thing I'd like to point out about the various prophecies that were brought up here:

We've got the Dual Prophecies, one talking about four lights and one about four darknesses. Then we've got the Puppetmaster's prophecy mentioning eight souls that "shine like gold", so according to this there are actually eight lights and not just four. Finally the fortune teller's prophecy talks about the protagonist and three others - presumably they're four lights, since one of them is described as having a soul that shines with Arceus's light - facing off against only one enemy in a decisive battle. Presumably that one would be one of the darknesses, but the dark prophecy clearly states that there's four of them who will rule. Would this mean that the one person the lights are facing is somehow four darknesses at once? If so, is that because the four darknesses all assimilated themselves into a single being, or are we maybe talking about four instances of the same person? We've already met two apparentally different instances of Madame X, then there's the whole thing with Melia, Maria and Marianette. Maria notably seems to be the only good character so far that has some mysterious powers much like some of the antagonists - Melia also had that "What did you eat for breakfast?!" moment with some Xen Grunts before V9, but that was removed. We've still got Angie's failed ritual, but being inside a Dimensional Rift already means that things are weird. (Nim's and Krystal's abilities seem more like standard Psychic powers to me.)

Safe to say there's something going on with that quartet of Maria, Melia, Madame x and Crescent and I feel like we'll barely be able to be sure of anything before more about them is revealed.

 The interesting part of the puppetmaster prophecy is that it unifies the dual prophecies. The eight souls their destiny get split in two 4 light/4 dark. A set of 4 for each prophecy for the dual prophecies. However one prophecy can only occur so there should be some conflict. The battle in the fortune's teller prophecy could be the climax with only one remaining.

 

10 hours ago, parcent said:

Oooh, theories. All of these are good.

 

My personal interpretation of them is that they are actually kind of misleading. If I remember correctly, the Pokemon to represent the Light Prophecy was a Gardevoir, and the one for the Dark Prophecy is an Absol. We've only seen one of these take part in the main story so far, and that was the Gardevoir from the past, who was obviously very significant and incredibly powerful for whatever reason. And she was sort of evil, wasn't she?

 

So what I think is that the Light Prophecy is actually something bad, or just morally wrong, and the people apart of it are likewise. If that's the case, the Dark Prophecy may be the good one or just overall better, and it's people are the true "good guys". 

 

Another jumping-over-the-shark theory is that Ren isn't the Prophecy of Betrayal. Because he really wasn't a traitor--Crescent was the one that gave him the idea of joining Team Xen to begin with. And it just seems way too obvious to begin with, as it was literally stated within the story of the game. If he still is the traitor, I'll admittedly be a bit disappointed but that's besides the point.

 

So who fits that status quo better than Ren? I would say Kanon. Him ditching the protagonists side and doing evil stuff would be an actual blow and a bit deeper of a betrayal than Ren. He's already been given a few implications of being a traitor to begin with, with him screwing around with Garufan stuff and people worrying about him doing so. I would be a little sad though. I like Kanon!

 

Those are just my thoughts though

Well the gardevoir and absol could be a symbolic thing. Gardevoirs are considered a loyal/kind pkmn. Absols are considered ill omens and in some case actively persecuted as evil beings. This can clearly in the pokedex entries. So the statues might involve pokemon of the prophecies but their roles are misunderstood by the Garufa. That or the light prophecy is bad and the dark prophecy is good for some reason. 

 

Ren feels betrayed by the MC because the MC took Ren's life goal. Also Ren clearly betrayed Melia as by her words. It might be a ploy of Crescent but Crescent motives are unknown. Maybe she wants to progress the prophecy for some reason.

 

 

[Gentleman Jaggi]

1 hour ago, FairFamily said:

Aelita also fits he normal claivoyants vision as tehe one aspiring to lead.

Honestly I've never seen Aelita as someone that would be especially qualified at leading others and that's what that prophecy seems to imply.

Still, Sheridan's Eldest at least claimed that she thinks Aelita would make a fine Sensei, so maybe she is qualified after all. But honestly so far I can't think of any characters that seem like they have "the resolve to lead others".

 

1 hour ago, FairFamily said:

Geara is probably dead/ corrupted. Cassandra made the analogy with the usb drive for a reason. Basically Crescent blew up the teleportation station immeditely after Geara was sent. So basically geara's entire body structure got corrupted.

Ah, that nakes sense; somehow I failed to make the connection between the USB drive and the broken transporter. (Even though basically the same thing happens twice in PMD2, which I have played quite a lot.)

 

1 hour ago, FairFamily said:

 The interesting part of the puppetmaster prophecy is that it unifies the dual prophecies. The eight souls their destiny get split in two 4 light/4 dark. A set of 4 for each prophecy for the dual prophecies. However one prophecy can only occur so there should be some conflict. The battle in the fortune's teller prophecy could be the climax with only one remaining.

I wouldn't describe a darkness as "shining like gold", although I suppose the four darknesse could be "fallen" lights.

The dark prophecy states that the four darknesses all reign over the destroyed world; if that one female only accounts for one those darknesses that would either mean that the darknesses are losing, or that she'd want or need to share her reign with the other three darknesses that, presumably, had already been defeated at that point.