Pokemon Theory

[Froiky]

So I've been trying desperately to finally beat one of the gym leaders of Reborn, without much luck (until now). It would be great to just enter the gym and battle and win by the skin of your teeth. However, with these gym leaders it comes down to the minute bits of strategy and more than a little bit of luck. Thus I've been searching for that one time where things begin to work my way so that I can finally beat them, which requires shutting down the game each time the odds don't tip in my favor.

Endless attempts, a multitude of restarts, all for a preciously elusive outcome. This made me think about how this actually works inside the game. The player, you or me, exist outside of the world of the game. We are immune to the effects of the game shutting off. When the game is turned off all of the characters, Pokemon, even the environment simply disappears, but we don't. When the game is turned back on everything returns to existence, except in a state at a previous time to when it was shut down. Thus the player is privy to information that the other characters aren't and can change the outcome that was erased. From what I can see, shutting off the game is tantamount to the player traveling back in time.

The protagonist is a time traveler. Do you agree? Has this changed how you look at Pokemon games? Any other views of this phenomenon? Any imaginative ideas to explain why the protagonist, rather than other characters, has this ability?

Edit: I have noticed many people are pointing to Undertale. For those of us, like me, who haven't seen the end, or even very far into, of Undertale please refrain from spoilers. I'm thankful to those who have only pointed the similarity out and have not gone into depth.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Froiky

[Lord_Ludo]

This is some Undertale stuff, resetting the save every time you fail in hopes to do better the next time. It certainly is an interesting perspective, but since no there characters acknowledge any time disturbances, it's hard to say for certain.

[Skullgasher]

Hm. I never took the time to think about it like that. Regardless, my opinions on pokemon remains the same. Maybe it's cause I've become desensitized to it, considering I've been doing this since I started playing pokemon.

[zimvader42]

Specially in rom hacks. which you play with an emulator and thus have the possibility to speed up or down, add cheats, have multiple saves of the same instant (could be in the middle of attacking, or the middle of dialogue), etc. I've always liked to think about the player as having some kind of time/space warping power. You can repeat the timeline over and over until you get the result you desire, by altering the previous actions or repeating endlessly.

For example, I only use one pokéball to catch any pokemon regardless of catch rate, and never weaken the pokemon to catch or put status conditions to it or anything: right when I encounter a wild mon I want, I simply save before throwing the first ball and, if it breaks free, I go back to the saved point and try again, until it gets caught. Only one ball spent, but how many times has the world be altered just to get that done? It makes it seem like the player is almost a reality warper.

And yeah, pretty much is kinda an undertale thing going on..

[Narckarth]

I've always thought of it as when you lose it becomes failed timelines where existence stops at that point and rolls back to before your failure your character remembers the events before the roll back so that you or your character (whatever you think) can correct their mistakes the current time around. Its similar to your theory but its doesn't involve the protagonist having the ability to time travel more like time travels around them kind of like they are detached from the time line enough not to be affected by these roll backs but not enough that they are separate from time itself. What sets the benchmarks for these failures I'm not sure but its an interesting theory I used to explain respawn.

[Alex]

Saving and resetting is a game construct.

[Combat]

[insert Undertale Reference Here]

In all seriousness, unless some sort off worth wall is broken it would be hard to tell if your theory is correct.

[dead account]

All of this just to avoid blacking out, running back to the pokemon center and losing your money.

[Tomas Elliot]

This is actually handwaved in the games "Digimon World: Dawn and Dusk" where, if you lose and get a game over, you wake up in your bed, and you are told that what you just saw (I.E. you losing) was a dream of things to come...

[Froiky]

I've always thought of it as when you lose it becomes failed timelines where existence stops at that point and rolls back to before your failure your character remembers the events before the roll back so that you or your character (whatever you think) can correct their mistakes the current time around. Its similar to your theory but its doesn't involve the protagonist having the ability to time travel more like time travels around them kind of like they are detached from the time line enough not to be affected by these roll backs but not enough that they are separate from time itself. What sets the benchmarks for these failures I'm not sure but its an interesting theory I used to explain respawn.

Narckarth, what I'm talking about is when you turn off the game, not only when the player loses. At least in Pokemon Reborn, after losing to certain opponents such as gym leaders, they acknowledge you have already tried once when you are attempting a rematch. Also after losing and returning to the PokeCenter the experience your Pokemon gained, if any, remains as well.

[Narckarth]

Narckarth, what I'm talking about is when you turn off the game, not only when the player loses. At least in Pokemon Reborn, after losing to certain opponents such as gym leaders, they acknowledge you have already tried once when you are attempting a rematch. Also after losing and returning to the PokeCenter the experience your Pokemon gained, if any, remains as well.

now I'm just confused let me try and answer you.

In the event you reset without losing my previous theory stands just don't apply it a loss in battle and replace it with some other factor that caused the timeline to fail.

After losing and not resetting they acknowledge your previous challenge and your pokemon retain the experience they got from it. The blacking out is just so you don't have to see a walk sequence back to the pokemon centre after each loss. I don't understand the confusion here. My knowledge is that if I save before the battle, lose, turn my game of and then turn it back on my pokemon will not have grow and the gym leader wont say welcome back.

One of us isn't interpreting the other very well but I personally don't see any conflict, my theory is just yours but reworded so that it is linked the the mechanism of the world as opposed to the abilities of the player.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Narckarth

[Froiky]

now I'm just confused let me try and answer you.

In the event you reset without losing my previous theory stands just don't apply it a loss in battle and replace it with some other factor that caused the timeline to fail.

After losing and not resetting they acknowledge your previous challenge and your pokemon retain the experience they got from it. The blacking out is just so you don't have to see a walk sequence back to the pokemon centre after each loss. I don't understand the confusion here. My knowledge is that if I save before the battle, lose, turn my game of and then turn it back on my pokemon will not have grow and the gym leader wont say welcome back.

One of us isn't interpreting the other very well but I personally don't see any conflict, my theory is just yours but reworded so that it is linked the the mechanism of the world as opposed to the abilities of the player.

When I first read your post I had thought you were talking about the event that a player loses and doesn't reset the game, thus I thought your rewording stemmed from when the player blacks out and not when the player consciously resets the game. I'm sorry for the confusion that I caused. I think that your version of the phenomenon is interesting, but I prefer considering the protagonist of the game and the player of the game are one and the same, thus the protagonist is, in my mind, the one who causes the time changes.

[Narckarth]

When I first read your post I had thought you were talking about the event that a player loses and doesn't reset the game, thus I thought your rewording stemmed from when the player blacks out and not when the player consciously resets the game. I'm sorry for the confusion that I caused. I think that your version of the phenomenon is interesting, but I prefer considering the protagonist of the game and the player of the game are one and the same, thus the protagonist is, in my mind, the one who causes the time changes.

No need to be sorry, I probably could have worded it better. Your theory is an interesting one as well I just dislike giving the player to much power and prefer to think of them in the middle of something they can't control and never will.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Narckarth