Lithium

YO NIGGA DAAT SHIZZ WAK YO. Real talk. I don't know how I got out damaged but blue build quinn doesn't do enough to help the team. srs bisnis

I'll join

It's funny how you say you're looking into it with an open mind yet all of your retorts are as if Skymin has the advantage. I didn't make note of field hazards when I calculated anything yet you use hazards as a way to back yourself. Narrow minded answers that may persuade some but if you look at it, you're telling me that Skymin (from how you're wording your answers.) will not have to worry about coming in on Stealth Rock, that there won't be weather to it's disadvantage, and that RNG is always going to work in favour for you. That's a pretty bold statement, I have to say. To add to that, I really must ask how often you've actually battled on Reborn. Seeing as Reborn's metagame is quite different from every other server, Team Preview/ WiFi Clause isn't used used on Reborn's ladder and the metagame here already show that Drizzle teams are quite dominate as well as weather in general. With access to having numerous Swift Swimmers on a Drizzle team, for them to not be able to revenge kill a Skymin is quite a joke. As well as you say that Skymin can OHKO quite a bit and 2-3 hit KO a lot, I'd have to say that there are many pokemon in the OU tier that can claim that as well. Without digressing into who can do that, the fact remains that there are plenty of deadly pokemon that can play really well and still excell with Skymin in the tier of OU without much change of the metagame. Quoting from Smogon's Checks and Counters for Skymin: [quote] [b] Checks and Counters[/b] [b]Skarmory[/b] comfortably sponges Seed Flare and can retaliate with either Whirlwind or Brave Bird, provided it is not met with a Hidden Power Fire. [b]Bronzong[/b] is a similar case, tanking both Seed Flare and Air Slash with ease, and can KO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball. Ho-Oh, as long as it has a reasonable amount of health left, laughs at Air Slash and can KO back with either of its STAB moves or even Whirlwind Shaymin-S away. Steel Arceus is another great choice to counter Shaymin-S, as it is bulky enough to take an Earth Power or two and has access to Recover and Roar. Choice Scarf users such as Dialga, [b]Heatran, Jirachi[/b], and [b]Metagross[/b] can use their resistances to switch in and KO, making them great checks too. Pokemon with priority, such as [b]Mamoswine[/b] and [b]Scizor[/b], bypass Shaymin-S's high Speed and maim it. Scizor must be careful, though, as after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, it will fall to Air Slash, because its Bullet Punch is unable to KO Shaymin-S even after Stealth Rock. [b]Bisharp[/b] is another check in this priority category, as it is immune to flinching due to Inner Focus and can 2HKO Shaymin-S with Sucker Punch. [b]Ferrothorn[/b] would be a great counter, but it is very susceptible to flinches from Air Slash, and Gyro Ball can only 2HKO. Likewise, Lugia and [b]Latias[/b] can KO Shaymin-S with Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse, respectively, but must be wary of Seed Flare followed by Air Slash flinches. [/quote] Why do OU and lower tier pokemon make specific mentions in their Checks and Counters for Skymin if they couldn't do the same in the OU tier? You discredit lower tier pokemon that I mention and say it as if they are completely worthless, yet a lot of pokemon I mentioned are brought up in this "Checks and Counters" that Smogon has. While I see that you put effort into a rebuttle, if you were truly open minded (as you claimed), you'd see that I brought plenty of support to prove my case without being elitist with my replies.

You posted specifically about Chansey and while it makes sense in your statement but, the change from DPPt to BW brought such pokemon as I've clearly stated such as [b]Genesect, Drizzle Politoed, Excadrill[/b] and [b]Terrakion[/b]. I made a mention of Chansey and Blissey for special walls but did I not make mention to other commonly used pokemon in OU? Theorymoning with damage calcs, perhaps, but your reponse also is theroymon as well. As well, you speak of having favour in hazards on the field which would be advantageous to any team in reality. Which makes your statement a bit abstruse, to say the least. As to that, with the abundance of rain teams seeing common use with [b]Swift Swim + Drizzle[/b] as well as pokemon such as [b]Sand Rush Excadrill, Garchomp, Speed Boost Blaziken, Shadow Tag Chandy[/b] and [b]Deo-S[/b] being in OU, Skymin also can make for fair play in OU. There are plenty of users that can damage and KO Skymin with ease and I calculated damage outputs to prove that Skymin is just as viable within OU. The sets I chose were from how often I've seen used in competitive play in Reborn and are open for use in Reborn's OU tier. With that being said, what you're saying is that a multitude of pokemon being able to abuse Drizzle + Swift Swim as well as quite a few other pokemon in the tier could not handle a single Skymin? Well, then, you must be doing something wrong.

Sorry to bring back a death thread but seeing as there is a thread similar to what I wanted to make, I figured I post in this thread. Of course, this is for Skymin to be IN OU. In b4: tl;dr. Shaymin-S @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Substitute - Leech Seed - Seed Flare - Air Slash VS Defensive Counters: Latias (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Dragon Pulse - Calm Mind - Recover - Substitute Seed Flare: 28.85 - 34.07%, 4-5 hits to KO Air Slash: 36.54 - 43.13, 3-4 hits to KO Basic CM set from Latias can setup CM and Sub up without too much worry Once setup behind Sub, Latias can ensure safty to end Skymin. Dusclops (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Pain Split - Ice Beam - Will-O-Wisp - Seismic Toss Seed Flare: 45.42 - 53.17%, 2-3 hits to KO Air Slash: 28.52 - 33.1%, 4 hits to KO Dusclops can take a few hits from Skymin and send back a devistating Ice Beam Or cripple with Will-O-Wisp. Adding more SpD could yield better results. Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Protect - Lava Plume - Toxic - Stealth Rock Seed Flare: 14.03 - 16.62%, 7-8 hits to KO Air Slash: 17.66 - 20.78%, 5-6 hits to KO A very underrated Heatran set that stands up to Skymin easy. Resisting Seed Flare and being able to return Lava Plume or Toxic. Chansey (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Toxic/ Thunder Wave - Softboiled - Heal Bell - Seismic Toss Seed Flare: 19.18 - 22.59%, 5-6 hits to KO Air Slash: 12.07 - 14.2, 8-9 hits to KO Potential to be stalled out by Subseed set. Counters to Choice Sets Deoxys-S @ Light Clay Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Light Screen - Taunt - Reflect Pre Screens: Seed Flare: 95.07 - 111.84%, 1-2 hits to KO (68.75% to OHKO) Air Slash: 59.54 - 70.39, 2 hits to KO Pre Screens is kinda scary, to be honest. Though Deo-S is frail. Post Screens: Seed Flare: 19.18 - 22.59%, 5-6 hits to KO Air Slash: 29.93 - 35.53%, 3-4 hits to KO Deo-S outspeeds Skymin and pretty much guarantee to have Light Screen up. Taunt also stops SubSeed and leaves it attacking for you to switch into a counter. Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Seismic Toss - Wish - Thunder Wave - Heal Bell Seed Flare: 23.67 - 27.87%, 4-5 hits to KO Air Slash 14.85 - 17.65%, 6-7 hits to KO Same as Chansey but less SpD but can perform the same. Jirachi @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Thunder Wave - Iron Head - Fire Punch - Substitute Seed Flare: 26.3 - 31.02%, 4-5 hits to KO Air Slash 16.38 - 19.35%, 8-10 hits to KO Jirachi can cripple with Thunder Wave and annoy the hell out of Skymin. It's not much fun when FlinchRachi is laughing at you while you try to recover from it. Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Leech Seed - Gyro Ball/ Power Whip - Stealth Rock - Protect/ Thunder Wave Seed Flare: 12.78 - 15.34%, 11-15 hits to KO Air Slash 32.67 - 38.64%, 3-4 hits to KO Ferrothorn can stand up pretty will to Skymin, par Flinch Hax. Though without Flinch hax an Gyro Ball would but a big dent into Skymin. Gyro Ball: 57.18 - 67.16% 2 hits to KO. That alone is pretty intimidating from a defensive pokemon. Thunder Wave is for crippling Skymin for the rest of the team to take care of Skymin. Offensive Counters: Kyurem @ Choice Scarf Trait: Pressure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Blizzard/ Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Fire] - Focus Blast - Draco Meteor self-explanatory. A wonderful set to take on Skymin. Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Bullet Punch - U-turn - Superpower - Pursuit Bullet Punch: 60-12 - 71.26% 2 hits to KO Priority alone will screw up Skymin even with SubSeed, Scizor uses priority to take it down without a question. Genesect @ Choice Scarf Trait: Download EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Flamethrower - U-turn/ Bug Buzz Ice Beam: 145.45 - 171.26% OHKO Flamethrower: 72.73 - 85.63% 2 hits to KO Thunderbolt: 36.36 - 42.82% 3 hits to KO Bug Buzz: 51.91 - 61% 2 hits to KO U-Turn: 29.91 - 35.19% 3-4 hits to KO Genesect is amazing, such perfect coverage to dominate most of OU. With how common it is in most competitive teams on Reborn, Skymin would hardly stand a chance against a Genesect. Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band Trait: Multiscale EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Fire Punch - ExtremeSpeed - Outrage Fire Punch: 93.26 - 110.26 1-2 hits to KO (62.5% OHKO) Outrage: 112.02 - 131.96% OHKO ExtremeSpeed: 49.85 - 58.65% 2-3 hits to KO While the DD sets are more common, this set can take out a Skymin without too much trouble. Prioirty to outspeed, and two powerful attacks boosted by Choice Band. Cloyster (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Skill Link EVs: 16 HP / 248 Atk / 244 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Shell Smash - Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Razor Shell/ Ice Shard Basic SmashSash Lead Cloyster set that counters Skymin easy. STAB Ice Shard WILL OKHO Skymin. Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Stone Edge Ice Shard, OHKO, etc. Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Prankster EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Nasty Plot/ Thunder Wave - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Ice] - Taunt Priority Taunt to stop SubSeed and outspeeds Modest but not Timid. If speed is an issue, Thunder Wave resolves that. HP Ice will OHKO. Excadrill (F) @ Air Balloon Trait: Sand Rush EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Earthquake - X-Scissor - Rock Slide Rock Slide: 62.76 - 73.9% 2 hits to KO. Excadrill outspeeds everything in Sand and without it being banned it sees common use in competitive Sand teams. Terrakion @ Choice Scarf Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Rock Slide Rock Slide: 90.62 - 107.33 1-2 hits to KO (43.75% OHKO) Stone Edge: 121.41 - 143.4% OHKO Outspeeds Timid with Scarf and returns wonderful KOs. Starmie @ Life Orb Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Hydro Pump - Recover Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Surf - Draco Meteor - Ice Beam - Dragon Pulse Draco Meteor: 112.02 - 131.96% OHKO Ice Beam: 202.93 - 239.3% (Overkill, much?) Rain teams are very much common in Reborns competitive play in OU that it dominates the tier. With that being said. Specs Kingdra can outspeed in rain. In return drop a Draco Meteor or Ice Beam. Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Giga Drain - Surf - Rain Dance As with Kingdra, Ludicolo makes its way on rain teams and can OHKO Skymin. It can be taken out by an Air Slash but because most of the time it will outspeed it becomes less of a worry. All calculations were done with: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html

Tyranitar. [img]http://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/tyranitar.jpg[/img]

Girl mode: Boy mode: idgaf i'm pretty ;_;

In a lot of the tourneys here that I've done in Reborn since posting this team the teams has been doing fairly well bar hax. I'm starting to get use to each of the poke's role in the team which is making battling unknown teams a bit easier to do. Perhaps I'll end up tinkering with a Special HO team and post it when I'm happy with it. Once again, thanks to all of you for your input and I greatly appreciate your help :3

I fought a friends sand team last night and didn't really do to bad against it. http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Lithium-vs-RIVAL-Gary--2012-03-24 And then against his rain stall team: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Lithium-vs-RIVAL-Gary--2012-03-24-1 But it doesn't seem like sand is much common as Rain Stall is right now. I've seen a lot of either Rain Stall teams or Lead Dragonites. Of course, this is when I'm laddering in Smogon. And the automatic Wifi clause there does help make sure that I know what I'm dealing with. (inb4lolsmogon) As well as when I ladder in Reborn I see ALOT of Drizzle/Swift Swimmer teams that utilize 3 or 4 Swift Swimmers and just outspeed and seem rather unfair but -shrugs-. Is Taunt Gliscor even used that much anymore? I guess preparing against the little ones and twos does help my team be more prepared. As far as speed... Yes, a lot of the team is really slow to start but that's why I utilize dual screens to assist in the setup. While it's merely suppose to be a bonus, I find that screens help a lot when it comes to trying t get that second DD on either of my Moxie users. I could upload more replays with Azelf and Virizion being used but laddering in Smogon, I tend to get a lot of RQ's so you don't really get to see how the team plays out real well.