Ironbound

Successfully baited kuro. That's a check mark for Thursday. I'm glad you're here. And you've very succinctly pointed out exactly why nozick is relegated to the textbooks. I'd been looking to see if folk would like to scratch their heads a bit on it, but you've sniped it already so I'll just have to pull out a different, less hoary topic next time. (This is mid seventies stuff after all) I think, though, to add to the subject, the idea is a running theme of The Matrix. Agent Smith's account of the place's history goes on about humans rejecting a VR paradise; however, Cypher is willing to betray his pals because he would rather get back into an (arguably less perfect) Matrix as a rich man with ask his desires fulfilled than continue to live in the harsh realities outside the simulation, despite knowing that it's just that: a simulation. While the later Matrix is not so paradise-like in the literal sense, it is a lot like the Experience Machine, since Cypher is given his desires, as he says: "You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy, and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss." Which is precisely what you say about nozick's idea being entirely subjective, and an ironic support of hedonism. At the end of the day, I ramble about Indic philosophy again: happiness (which is a greater term than pleasure) is a motivator, and we live in order to be happy, to trigger our brains to continue what would otherwise be an arguably pointless existence in order to accomplish a targeted happiness and keep at it. The idea of what really constitutes happiness is again subjective: to some it may merely be material pleasure, to some it may be something else, and so on. The Dharmic and Karmic principles of life explain that logic of the priority scale of motivators and consequences, but I've already talked about that for about four pages so we'll leave it at that. Let us pick up the tangent on genetic engineering and eugenics. How much is ethical, and how much is too much? Where and how does the Nuremberg code influence our actions today, and what would you say of the potential, both humane and inhumane?

Too long a story without coffee. Also my mind does not execute recall functions in general unless I've already gotten a cup or two running it. What sort of questions am I supposed to ask again?

Palkia is a giant space penis. And it can't hit Dialga with either STAB, has to rely on EPower or aura sphere or some lame thing like that which will never ohko. It's also the only non-ice, non-magikarp water type that can't learn Scald for some reason. Dialga just murderizes Palkia. What say you to that, KH?

Steel dragons rule all other dragons 'Nuff said Spine

I think the fact that despite what we know of kuro's life and experiences, the fact that they are still with us, and are quite remarkable at that, is enough to merit it a 'super'human story. Why are you asking people's origin stories, as you call them? There's a lot more than a funny one liner that makes a person who they are, and every one of them is a 'super' in some way or the other.

Well, a lot of stuff has been going on in the past few days, but I'm sure our corner here will remain the same. Let's bring up that old Pleasure Machine conundrum arguing against hedonism as a motivator. For those who don't know, this Experience Machine or Pleasure Machine is a thought experiment by a philosopher called Robert Nozick. It attempts to refute ethical hedonism by imagining a choice between everyday reality and an apparently preferable simulated reality. The primary idea of classical hedonism, especially from the utilitarian point of view, is that "pleasure is good", and so any aspect of life that is not pleasurable to a person (however subjective that may be) does nothing to increase one's well-being and is therefore not desirable. Nozick attacks this thesis by trying to show that there is something other than pleasure that has value and thereby increases our well-being, thus defeating hedonism as a philosophy. Imagine a machine that could give you whatever desirable or pleasurable experiences you could want. Assume that psychological science has figured out a way to stimulate your brain to induce experiences that you can't differentiate from those you'd have apart from the machine. Basically a simulator that can make you live your dreams, as ideal as your own desires, and so perfect that you can't tell it apart from real experiences that you've had. The question is, if given the choice, would you prefer the machine to real life? The logic is that if pleasure was the only intrinsic value or motivator, people would have an overriding reason to be hooked up to an "experience machine," which would produce eternally favorable sensations. Here's the logical path: If pleasure, as hedonism theorises, is all that matters, we would do a thing which gave us more pleasure (i.e., plug in the machine) than do a thing which gave us less pleasure (i.e., not plug in the machine) and so, if we have reason to not plug in the machine, maximising pleasure is not the only motivator. Nozick provides us with three reasons not to plug into the machine. 1. "It is only because we first want to do the actions that we want the experiences of doing them." That is to say, a person wants to do certain things, and physically execute such actions, not just have the experience of doing them. 2. "Someone floating in a tank is an indeterminate blob." People want actual achievement, they want to be a certain sort of person, not, as nozick says, a thing hooked to a machine. And third most of all: 3. Plugging into an experience machine limits us to a man-made reality (it limits us to what we can make). This in particular is a demotivator for people who want to self-actualise or discover a greater meaning to themselves, or to use a cliché, people who want some kind of enlightenment or spiritual or philosophical growth. With the pleasure machine, there is no actual contact with any deeper reality (though the experience of it can be simulated, it is again a man-made fallacy.) The argument therefore tries to conclude that hedonism itself is a flawed approach to life, and this raises the question of why only felt experiences dictate what can and cannot be done ethically to an animal. There are counter-arguments, of course, but I'd like to see what you all think about this and make your own analyses before I spring a different viewpoint.

Dragon+Metal = RAAAWR OF TIIIIME Micky?

What's physics got to do with it? It's just an aurora and trees reflected in a lake Also you call yourself dragon116 and you so not have a single dragon type in your entire signature. FRAUD, I SAY! -π⅞/8!

Already rated Try using a bigger picture

Uh...wat Something that's at least hard and can be used as a prosthetic, I guess. Some kind of wood, maybe. Bamboo? Why am I out of coffee and why is there none to be found in the house

I should be asleep Micky

Metal master race Spine

What are you doing here and why are you not running for your life yet

DOEANT MATTER JIST MOAR COFFEE

Post pictures of your coffee, talk about coffee, drink coffee, praise coffee, laugh about coffee, make coffee puns, meme about coffee, enjoy the coffee, embrace the coffee, let the coffee flow through you, open your mind to the inner coffee, become one with the coffee! Whatever you do, there must be coffee and it must be good. Remember these wise words:

Your attacks are feeble and shall simply bounce off the Lord's Iron Armour. Nice Aggron though. Temp?

Ifyousayso/10

Thank you for the mention, kuro. I agree that a general discussion on the internet is usually far from a proper debate, but nevertheless I think that there is scope for civil discussion here in Reborn. I was pleasantly surprised by the way my own thread took off, and I think that an attempt can certainly be made (and positive results can be expected without the need for too much optimism) for a wider debate base. Much appreciation for this guide of yours. I hope many can find it good.

No Micky

I blame thee for all that has occurred, and I say that pig is the spawn of Satan, anb aggravator of even the quietest minds and a torturer of focus! Cast it away, I say, into the pits of hell, back into the depths of the internet whence it was spawned in unfortunate misery! [seriously that thing is annoying. Already rated, and truthfully so.]

But is the new stuff going to retain this grey/black drapery or will there finally be a fresh coat of paint? Could always use more green