My Magma Gang team ! Also help with Burning Field ?!

[MewZiikal]

Hello, citizens of Reborn !

So I have a question about certain mechanics, and I figured I'd take the opportunity to showcase my team.

As the title says, I have this team that fits my position as a proud member of the Magma Gang. It is actually my secondary team, my main squad being more balanced (I might make a second post about the main one later). I originally created this team to help me get past the Glass Factory gauntlet. My main team at the time wasn't doing too good so I remembered how broken Charlotte's team was in Doubles, and I figured I'd give her strategy a try. 

 

So, here's the team :

 

Shiftry - Amplifield rock

Ability : Pickpocket

Nature Power

Foul Play

Focus Blast

Grassy Terrain

 

One of the Nuzleaf caught in Malchous Forest with Grassy Terrain as an egg move. It used to be one of the members of my main roster that I swapped in and out depending on the situation. I always like to have a Terrain move or two in my party to even things out in case the opponent's field is too broken. But instead of just setting up a neutral field, with this team I decided to use it as a lead and try exploiting the terrain to my advantage by setting it on fire. It doesn't have a Grass move because it gets weakened by the fire in Doubles. Instead, Nature power allows it to use either Energy ball once the terrain is set up, or Flamethrower once it starts to burn. 

 

Torkoal - Heat rock

Ability : Drought

Heat wave

Will-o-wisp

Stealth rock

Rock tomb

 

My second lead, which I send along with Shiftry in doubles or after it in Singles. Pretty straightforward, it sets up the sun for 8 turns, can ignite the field with Heat wave, cripple an enemy with Rock tomb and hinder the opposing team with SR.

 

Simisear - Firium Z

Ability : Blaze

Flame Burst

Fire Blast

Focus Blast / Brick Break

Shadow Claw

 

One of the members of my original 6, that got swapped out once it started becoming too weak, and has come back as a proud member of this team that utilizes it to its full potential. Its power is notably higher than it was on the main team since using it in the Burning field activates its ability Blaze at all times. It can ignite the field with Flame Burst or Inferno Overdrive if it isn't already, and then hit hard with Fire Blast. Focus Blast gives it some coverage, and can be temporarily replaced with Brick break when it's relevant. Shadow claw gives more coverage, although it's pretty weak on this special attacker but I didn't find anything better to give it.

 

Houndoom (Mega) - Houndoominite

Ability : Flash Fire (Solar Power)

Heat Wave

Dark Pulse

Sucker Punch

Nasty plot 

 

The doggo given by Maxwell ! It's one of my favorite Megas that I used to play in Gen7 OU (where it did surprisingly well, it's underrated imo) and that doesn't disappoint here.  Its ability Flash Fire  will activate if it hasn't Mega evolved at the end of a turn while the Burning terrain is active. Heat waves can ignite the Grassy terrain as well as hit both opponents in doubles, Dark pulse is mainly for hitting with 100% accuracy (with Burning field + Sun, Heat wave is almost always better, but if they're not up anymore Dark pulse can still be strong). Sucker punch can finish off an annoying enemy and Nasty plot makes its power go through the roof if it can be set up.

 

Typhlosion - Elemental seed/Charcoal

Ability : Flash Fire

Burn Up

Eruption

Focus Blast

Extrasensory

 

And there's the absolute beast, Typhlosion with Eruption. Elemental seed gives it a boost in Speed and special attack, and when the conditions are set up, few pokemon can resist this, especially since Flash Fire gives its Fire attacks even more power in the Burning field. For when it has low HP, I use Burn up instead of Flamethrower or Fire blast because it's more powerful and perfectly accurate, and this pokemon isn't supposed to last long anyway so if it loses its fire type i can just sacrifice it and use one of my other strong attackers. FB and extrasensory are for coverage. Elemental seeds now can be bought at the flower shop so I can't run out of them, but when I don't use one (while training for instance) I give it a Charcoal.

 

Drifblim - Elemental seed/Life Orb

Ability : Flare Boost

Shadow Ball

Thunderbolt

Fly

Psychic

 

And finally, another one of my former main pokemon that became too weak and later returned in this team. I figured it'd give the team a bit more coverage than just fire types, plus I need it to Fly. Elemental seed makes up for its low speed, and together with Flare boost which activates in the Burning field it gives it a good power boost, in theory. 

 

So, I'd love some feedback about what you think of this team and how I could improve it.

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However, I have some IMPORTANT QUESTIONS about how the Burning Field exactly works regarding Abilities !

My main concern is Drifblim's Flare boost. It says it is activated when in the burning field, but I haven't seen it dealing much more damage than usual. I have also noticed that, if I'm not mistaken, Flash Fire seems to only activate at the end of the turn when  non-fire types are supposed to get damaged. Does it really work this way and is it the same for Flare Boost ? Does it just not work ? Or does the pokemon have to be grounded (which would make no sense because Drifblim is the only pokemon with Flare boost and it's Flying) ? What about Blaze, does it activate instantly ? Is Blaze better than Flash Fire on Typhlosion in this regard ?

 

Edit : After more testing, it does seem that Flare boost and Blaze are both activated at all times, but Flash Fire only does at the end of a turn. If you can confirm this it'd still be great !

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Thanks for your answers, I'm looking forward to them !

[Gentleman Jaggi]

Ninetales should be a better Drought setter than Torkoal since it's way faster - you'll want to hit hard and fast before the enemy gets to do anything to disrupt your tactic.

For Shiftry you should change its Ability to Chlorophyll to patch up its Speed to ensure Grassy Field gets set up; alternatively Prankster Whimsicott gets priority on Grassy Field. Either one can also use Tailwind to speed up your team so your heavy hitters can fully invest into SpAtk, particularly Typhlosion since Eruption relies on having full HP. In general I'd say offensive moves are very low priority on your Field setter, since you'll want switch it out for one of your heavy hitters as soon as the setup is done. Whimsicott can use U-Turn to leave the field, alternatively you could put Lava Plume on Typhlosion to burn up the support once it's done. Alternatively alternatively the Support can use Helping Hand to boost its partner every turn.

I'd recommend getting a Solar Power Charizard as well, a sweeper that's non-grounded can be useful in several situations and once Mega Y is available it becomes the best Sun setter for short fights.

Since you'll be spamming Heat Wave and Eruption a lot the Metronome item can actually give you a larger boost than most other held items.

 

In fights where you go full Fire power you actually don't need much coverage since with enough boosts you can just punch right through Type resistance, so your main concern are Flash Fire mons that can turn your tactic against you. Aerodactyl or Archeops can dispose any of those without getting harmed by the Burning Field themselves.

For more general fights Delphox, Salazzle, Magcargo, Rotom-Heat, Solar Power Heliolisk or any Chlorophyll user can provide some extra coverage while still fitting into the team. Blaziken, Infernape, Incineroar and Megazard X also additionally give some Physical presence in case of Special walls. Arcanine, Rapidash or Darmanitan can do so as well, but without the secondary Type.

 

Can't really help you with the question about Abilities, other than that it probably works as you say. Blaze and Flare Boost are Abilities that get activated as long as a certain requirement is fulfilled (low HP and Burn status respecitvely), so it makes sense that the presence of the Burning Field would be the thing activating them. Flash Fire on the other hand produces an effect "on hit", so the end-of-turn damage makes the most sense for it.

[DistantBliss]

Ok, concerning the field affecting abilities; you already figured out flare boost and blaze and you are correct flash fire only triggers at the end of the turn. The way it works is when the mon would take fire damage it gets the boost instead, the field only damages at the end of the turn so it triggers at that point. (If it would activate when the field is created, it would trigger twice cause of the end of turn damage, which would be useless, so it only triggers at the end of turn on hit.) Similarly, on a swamp field (gras and water pledge combo), the speed drop only occurs at the end of turn.

 

Concerning your team; it seems to work as is, but I'd say solar beam instead of focus blast is generally more reliable plus it's good vs rock/water/ground ofc. You could always make changes to your team to try new stuff or mons or mons with higher base stats which is up to you. As a reminder; chandelure and volcarona exist and have already insane sp.att. stats to begin with. As the guy above me mentioned, shiftry with chlorophyll can be a nice improvement or one of his other suggestions for a mon that can setup grassy terrain. Alternatively, you could use a cherrim as it's ability gives a 1.5 boost to allies attack and sp.def. and it can learn grassy terrain (duh) by breeding, helping hand (for another 1.5 boost to your sweeper), solar beam and nature power/heal pulse (breeding).

 

And lastly, if you can be bothered you can add mons with levitate (would not nessessarily recommend flying mons as they share the weaknes to rock, although not to ground; actually sigilyph with heatwave is probably nice but flimsy) to shore up some type weaknesses. Or you could go even further, toss in a bronzong with levitate and trick room and make use of slow fire mons that get to go first now. This would work for torkoal and (mega-)camerupt who also just happen to be able to learn eruption through breeding or perhaps even a turtonator (although it doesn't matter much for shell trap), darmanitan with zen mode and maybe even incineroar/emboar if you're up against a speedy team.

[MewZiikal]

Okay, let me answer each point in order.

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

Ninetales should be a better Drought setter than Torkoal

>I don't have one yet. Where can it be found?

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

For Shiftry you should change its Ability to Chlorophyll to patch up its Speed to ensure Grassy Field gets set up

>I totally forgot about Chlorophyll for some reason, guess I didn't have enough Ability capsules at the time but it is done now.

I don't think Whimsicott actually gets Grassy Terrain in gen 7. According to Bulbapedia it seems to be a TM move only available since gen 8.

 

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

Either one can also use Tailwind to speed up your team so your heavy hitters can fully invest into SpAtk

>I used to have Tailwind on Drifblim but I removed it since it puts the fire out. Besides, Driblim and Typhlosion get their speed boosted by Elemental seeds, and Houndoom and Simisear are already very fast.

 

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

For more general fights Delphox, Salazzle, Magcargo, Rotom-Heat, Solar Power Heliolisk or any Chlorophyll user can provide some extra coverage while still fitting into the team. Blaziken, Infernape, Incineroar and Megazard X also additionally give some Physical presence in case of Special walls. Arcanine, Rapidash or Darmanitan can do so as well, but without the secondary Type.

>I already have Rotom on my main team, it's generally Grass-type but I could swap it in sometimes.

I really love Magcargo but I don't know if I want it on the team considering how slow it is and how its abilites and stats are inferior to those of my current squad ; though it could help this opposing Fire types and especially Flash Fire users... It's found at the Game corner right ?

Heliolisk, Infernape and Charizard might be cool additions, but I don't know where to find them yet.

The others don't appeal to me personally as much.

 

4 hours ago, DistantBliss said:

Ok, concerning the field affecting abilities; you already figured out flare boost and blaze and you are correct flash fire only triggers at the end of the turn.

>You're right ! Due to this I ended up giving Typhlosion Blaze so it could get the boost immmediately.

 

4 hours ago, DistantBliss said:

I'd say solar beam instead of focus blast is generally more reliable plus it's good vs rock/water/ground ofc

>I only got the TM recently, so I didn't think about it, thanks for reminding me ! I gave it to Simisear and Typhlosion, replacing Shadow claw and Extrasensory, both moves were weak anyway.

Edit : Actually, the Burning Field halves the power of Grass moves, that's probably why I didn't think about it before... However, it IS boosted but the Grassy terrain, which also powers up Fire moves even if it's not turned into a Bµrning Field. The grassy terrain also negates Fire's weakness to Earthquake and Bulldoze. Thus, against Water, Rock, and Ground-oriented opponents, I might prefer to leave the Grassy terrain as it is to use the advantages listed above. I replaced Torkoal's Will-o-wisp and Typhlosion's Burn Up with Flamethrower so they can better utilize the Grassy terrain without setting it on fire when needed.

 

4 hours ago, DistantBliss said:

toss in a bronzong with levitate and trick room and make use of slow fire mons that get to go first now. This would work for torkoal and (mega-)camerupt who also just happen to be able to learn eruption through breeding or perhaps even a turtonator

>Really cool idea tbh ! I don't think I'll use it though, because I like how fast this team is and I already use Trick room on my main team.

[Gentleman Jaggi]

3 hours ago, MewZiikal said:

I don't have one yet. Where can it be found?

There's a clown NPC in the upper floor of the gate house between Agate City and Circus, you can trade him a Stunfisk for a Vulpix.

You can use this to look up the location of any Pokémon and when they become available:

 

3 hours ago, MewZiikal said:

I don't think Whimsicott actually gets Grassy Terrain in gen 7. According to Bulbapedia it seems to be a TM move only available since gen 8.

Well dang, I was convinced it gets Grassy Field for some reason, didn't even play Gen VIII.

In that case Jumpluff can do many of the same things that Whimsicott can, although it doesn't get Tailwind weirdly enough. It does get some other interesting support moves such as Rage Powder, Aroma Therapy and Memento.

 

3 hours ago, MewZiikal said:

I used to have Tailwind on Drifblim but I removed it since it puts the fire out. Besides, Driblim and Typhlosion get their speed boosted by Elemental seeds, and Houndoom and Simisear are already very fast.

Grassy Field still boost Fire moves by 1.5 against grounded enemies and as long as Tailwind goes before your attacker the Field will be back at the end of the turn, so your damage output should only be affected when your attacker has Blaze.

 

3 hours ago, MewZiikal said:

I really love Magcargo but I don't know if I want it on the team considering how slow it is and how its abilites and stats are inferior to those of my current squad ; though it could help this opposing Fire types and especially Flash Fire users... It's found at the Game corner right ?

Heliolisk, Infernape and Charizard might be cool additions, but I don't know where to find them yet.

Shell Smash is one heck of a drug, Magcargo also has a pretty solid movepool with a variety of Fire moves, Ancient Power, Earth Power and Nature Power.

You can get a Slugma from the game corner, but it's easier to trigger a wild Magcargo at one of the Rock Smash pillars in Pyrous Mountain.

For the other three you can refer to the thread I linked above.

[DistantBliss]

7 hours ago, MewZiikal said:

>I only got the TM recently, so I didn't think about it, thanks for reminding me ! I gave it to Simisear and Typhlosion, replacing Shadow claw and Extrasensory, both moves were weak anyway.

Edit : Actually, the Burning Field halves the power of Grass moves, that's probably why I didn't think about it before... However, it IS boosted but the Grassy terrain, which also powers up Fire moves even if it's not turned into a Bµrning Field. The grassy terrain also negates Fire's weakness to Earthquake and Bulldoze. Thus, against Water, Rock, and Ground-oriented opponents, I might prefer to leave the Grassy terrain as it is to use the advantages listed above. I replaced Torkoal's Will-o-wisp and Typhlosion's Burn Up with Flamethrower so they can better utilize the Grassy terrain without setting it on fire when needed.

 

>Really cool idea tbh ! I don't think I'll use it though, because I like how fast this team is and I already use Trick room on my main team.

 

Good point about burning field halving grass moves power; didn't think of that but as you said, grassy terrain and sunny day do work and flamethrower is the most reliable, non terrain altering high base power fire move i can think of that isn't mon-specific like fiery dance on volcarona.

 

I'm kinda curious what your main team is now tbh. I say that because i wonder how you are using trick room and with which mons, since I use that trick room swamp field + rain dance strat with a milotic with competative, since the speed drop from swamp field isn't considered 'drop by allied move' and thus works and triggers the +2 sp.att. increase at the end of every turn. I then use an araquanid with entrainment to pass on it's water bubble ability to milotic to increase the power of water moves by 100% before STAB and then swap in a mon with water absorb/dry skin next to milotic . Milotic can then obliterate everything in double battles with surf, while healing my partymember for 1/4th every turn with that same surf while the party member can assist/heal/attack/etc. It's a fun strat but I'm sure there are other ways to have fun with trick room.

[MewZiikal]

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

as long as Tailwind goes before your attacker the Field will be back at the end of the turn, so your damage output should only be affected when your attacker has Blaze.

It'll also affect Drifblim's own damage output since it's the one with Flare boost, and since it's the one that has access to Tailwind I'm not sure it's that good an idea. I might consider it though, especially if I  specifically need to get the grassy terrain back on at some point of a battle.

 

6 hours ago, Gentleman Jaggi said:

Shell Smash is one heck of a drug, Magcargo also has a pretty solid movepool with a variety of Fire moves, Ancient Power, Earth Power and Nature Power

Hmm... Still not sure about that since with its base 30 speed, even with full EV investment and +2 speed, it can't outspeed base 110 pokemon such as gengar and the like, which are pretty common, plus it makes Magcargo really vulnerable. Still, I'll definitely try and catch one to see for myself if I can make use of it. Thanks for the advice !

 

2 hours ago, DistantBliss said:

'm kinda curious what your main team is now tbh. I say that because i wonder how you are using trick room and with which mons, since I use that trick room swamp field + rain dance strat with a milotic with competative, since the speed drop from swamp field isn't considered 'drop by allied move' and thus works and triggers the +2 sp.att. increase at the end of every turn. I then use an araquanid with entrainment to pass on it's water bubble ability to milotic to increase the power of water moves by 100% before STAB and then swap in a mon with water absorb/dry skin next to milotic . Milotic can then obliterate everything in double battles with surf, while healing my partymember for 1/4th every turn with that same surf while the party member can assist/heal/attack/etc. It's a fun strat but I'm sure there are other ways to have fun with trick room.

That's one hell of a cool strategy ! How do you even set up the swamp field though ?

My team is nothing like that, just some decent pokemon that complement each other's weaknesses rather well - this team above is the one with a somewhat elaborate strategy. I'll make a showcase of the main one soon though. It's probably far from being optimized tbh, even though I tried my best to do something good with the mons I had, so I'll look forward to your advice when I do !

[Gentleman Jaggi]

1 hour ago, MewZiikal said:

It'll also affect Drifblim's own damage output since it's the one with Flare boost, and since it's the one that has access to Tailwind I'm not sure it's that good an idea. I might consider it though, especially if I  specifically need to get the grassy terrain back on at some point of a battle.

 

I'd use Tailwind on a support mon rather than an attacker, but fair point that Drifblim's damage would also be affected.

 

1 hour ago, MewZiikal said:

Hmm... Still not sure about that since with its base 30 speed, even with full EV investment and +2 speed, it can't outspeed base 110 pokemon such as gengar and the like, which are pretty common, plus it makes Magcargo really vulnerable. Still, I'll definitely try and catch one to see for myself if I can make use of it. Thanks for the advice !

Magcargo also has Weak Armor to gain additional Speed when taking physical hits and the Defense loss can be countered with a White Herb.

It's true that Magcargo doesn't have much to work with stat-wise but I got quite a lot of mileage out of the one I used on my Fire Monotype.