Avatar of Grima Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Wouldn't exactly consider these builds optimal. Corki's is alright, just a little more situational. The Mercurial Scimitar can be traded for any defensive item necessary, and BT and Bork should be varied depending on the size of their tank line. For Kog'maw, Sorc Shoes aren't exactly optimal. He benefits much more from attack speed, considering his entire kit revolves around his immense DPS with percent health damage. For Kog'maw, a build like: TriForce->Bork->Greaves->Phantom Dancer->Last Whisper/Infinity Edge->Whichever you didn't get (LW or IE) will be far more optimal. Your standard ADC build is alright, but the order should be more like: IE->Greaves->PD/Shiv->Vamp Scepter->Last Whisper->Complete Bloodthirster-> Defensive Item. honestly i was just listing items that I fond go pretty decent, i like sorc shoes on Kog for the mpen for his e and ult but very rarely do it. Merc scimy i like for the qss active it just makes me feel stonger against heavy cc comp, as most people don't expect you to destroy them after they stun you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 honestly i was just listing items that I fond go pretty decent, i like sorc shoes on Kog for the mpen for his e and ult but very rarely do it. Merc scimy i like for the qss active it just makes me feel stonger against heavy cc comp, as most people don't expect you to destroy them after they stun you. While magic pen can be nice, you already get some if you land a q (you shouldn't even focus on the spells at that point aside from a few ults, rather get in some damage with W buffed basic attacks). The reason why Sorc Shoes work well on Corki is because while his abilities do magic damage, they also scale off of attack damage, which means that you can be doing a lot of damage by casting them. Kog'maw only has one skill that scales off of AD, being his ult. His spells aren't necessarily meant to deal damage, but rather to set him up to shred (Q to decrease defensive stats so basic attacks with W buff do a lot more, E to slow them down to position ults or to keep them in range of basic attacks, and Ult generally is good for picking off people when they get out of auto range with a little bit of health. Also, his ult can be effectively used to scout or to get vision on a fleeing enemy in the fog of war.) Mercurial Scimitar isn't a bad choice, it's just that once Kog'maw does get cc'd, he's going to get collapsed on, even if he does QSS out. And once he's jumped on, he can't escape. Also, if you're playing him correctly, you shouldn't be even close enough for their front line to jump on you. Instead, you should be in the back, trying to deal damage with W and Ult from afar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Well, if we're talking ADC builds now, I suppose I can mention my Trist build (Trist and Jinx are the only ADCs I don't fail miserably at) I go BT/Bork(depending on the enemy team)>PD>AS boots>IE/LW>LW/IE>defensive item Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Well, if we're talking ADC builds now, I suppose I can mention my Trist build (Trist and Jinx are the only ADCs I don't fail miserably at) I go BT/Bork(depending on the enemy team)>PD>AS boots>IE/LW>LW/IE>defensive item Only recommendation I have is swapping when you get your life steal item and IE. You generally have enough sustain early if you buy a few health pots each back. Also if you get IE early, once you get your PD, your crit chance will be increased as well as being able to get more IE enhanced crits out with increased attack speed, which is a pretty big early power spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Grima Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Only recommendation I have is swapping when you get your life steal item and IE. You generally have enough sustain early if you buy a few health pots each back. Also if you get IE early, once you get your PD, your crit chance will be increased as well as being able to get more IE enhanced crits out with increased attack speed, which is a pretty big early power spike. and the fastest tower clear speed you will ever see. A kill can secure you at least a tower and a half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Only recommendation I have is swapping when you get your life steal item and IE. You generally have enough sustain early if you buy a few health pots each back. Also if you get IE early, once you get your PD, your crit chance will be increased as well as being able to get more IE enhanced crits out with increased attack speed, which is a pretty big early power spike. I usually play Trist towards later game, so getting the lifesteal helps me stay safer early. Swapping to IE earlier is certainly a good idea, just not for me and my terrible ADC-ing >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Grima Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I usually play Trist towards later game, so getting the lifesteal helps me stay safer early. Swapping to IE earlier is certainly a good idea, just not for me and my terrible ADC-ing >_> Normally trist is a pretty safe laner in general, if you get into trouble you can just rocket jump away. I know where you are coming from but I wouldn't finish bt or bork, they are at that point kind of a waste. Good lifesteal item if you are feeling unsafe is a Vamp Scepter and then finish IE go PD into which ever one you prefer. It's a decent amount of lifesteal and it isn't to expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Well, Bork is definitely a very good first item on Trist. BT is a bit iffier, but until I'm more comfortable laning, I'm gonna stick with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Grima Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Well, Bork is definitely a very good first item on Trist. BT is a bit iffier, but until I'm more comfortable laning, I'm gonna stick with it Go with what you like, I'm not sold on Bork on Trist, I feel the BT passive is just beter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhades123 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Eh, Bork is pretty damn powerful on most AA reliant champs, and the active can help immensely if you're caught out and need quick damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Except that, given that every ADC builds IE early, you're going to get outtraded in lane if you opt for Blade first, unless your name is Vayne and you don't trade early. 99 times out of 100, the 20% crit chance is going to hit at least one time in an early trade of ~10 AAs, and you'll lose the trade since you won't have the same damage output as the one with the crit. You'd think the lifesteal would mitigate that, but at early levels around ~9, Bloodthirster would only heal for maybe 19 damage, Blade for maybe 12. That doesn't compare to the extra ~150 damage from a crit, PLUS the 50+ bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbaltag Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 4 IEs? You could at least go IE, BT, ER, MS, no? Same AD, four passives It's kind of just joking around and a completely yolo build for when you get stupidly far ahead. The reason 4 IEs is because crit chance stacks Except that, given that every ADC builds IE early, you're going to get outtraded in lane if you opt for Blade first, unless your name is Vayne and you don't trade early. 99 times out of 100, the 20% crit chance is going to hit at least one time in an early trade of ~10 AAs, and you'll lose the trade since you won't have the same damage output as the one with the crit. You'd think the lifesteal would mitigate that, but at early levels around ~9, Bloodthirster would only heal for maybe 19 damage, Blade for maybe 12. That doesn't compare to the extra ~150 damage from a crit, PLUS the 50+ bonus. The reason bork can be a better first item on trist than IE is with her new E and Q passive going on CD faster you can put the extra lifesteal and passive damage to work and proc the E and CD faster. In my opinion you should be maxing Q when you do that instead of the standard E max, but IE is generally a much safer rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Trist scales better with AD now due to her new Explosive Charge. She isn't totally a right-click-and-win champion anymore, but you can build her as such still. Just don't expect your E to do too much late-game. She's not totally the dream hyper-carry like the good ol' days - but then again, that doesn't stop champs like Lucian to itemize toward the late game hyper carry style build typical of champs like Vayne. But in Trist's case that's some mid-game power out the window. Depends on whether or not you can make the late-game-favoring investments worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 As an aside, you get much better crit chance from the other critical strike items, and much better stats to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbaltag Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 As an aside, you get much better crit chance from the other critical strike items, and much better stats to boot. Believe me I'm a fan of selling out the bork later for a second PD crit is great, but the early trading power of bork and a maxed Q is amazing. The IE is just something I'd take in a lane where I'd be bullied by poke rather than have constant trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Except that, given that every ADC builds IE early, you're going to get outtraded in lane if you opt for Blade first, unless your name is Vayne and you don't trade early. 99 times out of 100, the 20% crit chance is going to hit at least one time in an early trade of ~10 AAs, and you'll lose the trade since you won't have the same damage output as the one with the crit. You'd think the lifesteal would mitigate that, but at early levels around ~9, Bloodthirster would only heal for maybe 19 damage, Blade for maybe 12. That doesn't compare to the extra ~150 damage from a crit, PLUS the 50+ bonus. Kk, slow down here. There's too many things that are funky with this. Not every ADC builds IE first; in fact, I'd say it's roughly half, maybe less than that. Many build Triforce, Blade, or even Bloodthirster first (the last one being in Draven's case sometimes due to synergy between Life Steal and Spinning Axe). 10 autoattacks in a lane trade? That's more like a fight, normal trades with these kinds of items are about 3-4 autos tops. But anyway Bork has Attack Speed, so it would get out the attacks faster (10 for the champ with BoRK, about 6-7 for someone with IE). 2 of those 7 attacks for the IE user would crit, and yes, for decent damage, but Bork would usually still win out due to the Life Steal and %health Passive (which, of course, applies Life Steal) until the abilities used come into account. From there moreso than ever it is largely dependent on the champion in question, NOT what they build. Vayne actually does trade early when the situation is advantageous. Granted, those situations don't come often but in short trades, depending on the abilities from the opposing ADC and whether or not she avoids them, she can outmuscle a lot of the bot lane meta in that fashion, thanks to Silver Bolts and Tumble's autoattack reset, which is something that every other ADC not named Sivir wishes they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhades123 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Question; is it bad that I downloaded "Welcome to Planet Urf" and immediately placed it in the games "BGM" folder so I can play it in game at will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 No, because it's more or less what I did as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Just had a match with someone who purposely fed my team. Bard kept running straight down mid into the turrets and our line of fire, didn't attack once. By the time they surrendered, he had 41 total deaths. Bard needs an Aperture Science skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Trist scales better with AD now due to her new Explosive Charge. She isn't totally a right-click-and-win champion anymore, but you can build her as such still. Just don't expect your E to do too much late-game. She's not totally the dream hyper-carry like the good ol' days - but then again, that doesn't stop champs like Lucian to itemize toward the late game hyper carry style build typical of champs like Vayne. But in Trist's case that's some mid-game power out the window. Depends on whether or not you can make the late-game-favoring investments worth it. P much this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Kk, slow down here. There's too many things that are funky with this. Not every ADC builds IE first; in fact, I'd say it's roughly half, maybe less than that. Many build Triforce, Blade, or even Bloodthirster first (the last one being in Draven's case sometimes due to synergy between Life Steal and Spinning Axe). 10 autoattacks in a lane trade? That's more like a fight, normal trades with these kinds of items are about 3-4 autos tops. But anyway Bork has Attack Speed, so it would get out the attacks faster (10 for the champ with BoRK, about 6-7 for someone with IE). 2 of those 7 attacks for the IE user would crit, and yes, for decent damage, but Bork would usually still win out due to the Life Steal and %health Passive (which, of course, applies Life Steal) until the abilities used come into account. From there moreso than ever it is largely dependent on the champion in question, NOT what they build. Vayne actually does trade early when the situation is advantageous. Granted, those situations don't come often but in short trades, depending on the abilities from the opposing ADC and whether or not she avoids them, she can outmuscle a lot of the bot lane meta in that fashion, thanks to Silver Bolts and Tumble's autoattack reset, which is something that every other ADC not named Sivir wishes they had. Just to follow this up, I'm gonna put a list of items and what champs generally start with them. Infinity Edge: Ashe, Caitlyn, *Draven, *Ezreal, Graves, Jinx, Lucian, Miss Fortune, Quinn, Sivir, Tristana, Varus Bloodthirster: *Draven, *Kalista Trinity Force: Corki, *Ezreal, *Kog'maw, Blade of the Ruined King: *Kog'maw, Vayne Runaan's Hurricane: *Kalista *Indicates that the champion can successfully start with at least 2 different items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanco Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Infinity Edge: *Ashe, Caitlyn, *Draven, *Miss Fortune, Graves, Jinx, Lucian, Sivir, *Tristana, Varus Bloodthirster: *Draven, *Kalista, *Miss Fortune Trinity Force: Corki, *Ezreal, *Kog'maw Blade of the Ruined King: *Kog'maw, Vayne, Quinn, *Kalista, Twitch Manamune: *Ezreal, Urgot, Jayce Statikk Shiv1: *Ashe, *Tristana *Indicates that the champion can successfully start with at least 2 different items. 1A BF Sword is often bought before completing shiv. You had a pretty solid list but I've never seen Ezreal first-build Infinity Edge as he isn't as autoattack-reliant. Manamune first is what's "in" right now. I also edited your list a wee bit based on research on build preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar of Grima Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Pretty solid list but I've never seen Ezreal first-build Infinity Edge. Manamune first is what's "in" right now. Exactly Ezreal just takes more time to scale up now. Hurricane Kalista forst item really isn't optimal anymore, I don't like the early life steal since I'm an extremely passive laner, however I do like Bork with BT on Kalista the damage with the attck speed gives you a good ammount of burst with rend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Felix Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Just had the best uphill battle I've ever had in this game. My computer froze about 6 minutes into the game so I had to reboot. When I came back, even without my support Nunu, we were still ahead, although I was very under-leveled. I managed to level up very quickly though and we were able to destroy them. Also, what is the difference between Normal and Draft pick? Edited April 6, 2015 by Generalguy64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacos Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I just find it troubling as to how people can make it to gold being so incredibly toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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