Should Greninja be suspected?

[Reignited'Light]

So in another topic, Kamina made a thread about suggestions about pokes that should be moved around from tiers.
Greninja is a notable pokemon that is mentioned in the thread.

Please go to the following link before you post anything in here. It allows you to make a proper decision. (Or read my spoiler I will have in this topic for why it should be banned or stay in OU)

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11306

Now the spoiler I am about to present, is in the thread. But it basically covers why Greninja is too strong for the ORAS OU Metagame.

Greninja.

It has a whole bunch of coverage in this new meta with its recently newfound Gunk Shot. Now no Clefable is a counter to it at all.
Previously in the XY meta, Fairy types such as Azumarill and the before mentioned Clefable have easily stopped Greninja. This is however not the case anymore.

1. It has a whole bunch of different moves ever since ORAS has been around. Gunk Shot and Low kick are really devastating. No dumb pink blobs or Fairys are safe.

2. Its coverage is too damn high. It has Hidden Power Fire to hit Ferrothorn, Ice Beam for the Dragons, and much more. Many people run the standard...

Greninja @ Life Orb

Ability: Protean

EVs: 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe

Hasty Nature

- Gunk Shot

- Hydro Pump

- Ice Beam

- Hidden Power [Fire]

While that is the most common set that is used, it has so much potential making it a very broken threat in this new meta. It can be a Spikes lead, or even a physical attacking set with U-turn, low kick, waterfall, and acrobatics.

3. It's just so damn unpredictable. Normally, it would be so easy to figure out what a opponent will do when you see Greninja. However, that is not the case now.
You can run checks for Greninja like Empoleon, Tentacruel, but you need to scout the Greninja set before you send in the respectable check.

Honestly, please ban Greninja to Ubers. Most teams are based on Greninja now. It forces people to have to run a revenge killer for it. Which seems very unhealthy for the meta imo.

Here is Cowtao's explanation on why it should be OU and not be suspected.

Let's talk about Greninja

It got a boon with the addition of Gunk Shot from the move tutors. It has users resort to very sub-par checks such as Tentacruel and Empoleon, just to try and counter it. The fact that a lot of moves he has are very usable with Protean giving extra STAB, it's very dangerous. Essentially Greninja can fit into almost any team thanks to Protean not restricting it's typing.

People could argue that Priority kills frog and...It's true it does. Breloom and Talonflame are very popular among showdown users and are very reliable for clearing out Greninja. There is also a major 4 itis problem. With the set that Skitty gave above, you still run the risk of getting stopped by M-Venusaur, M-Ampharos, Chansey, Porygon2, Defensive Charizard-X, Gyarados, and Rotom-W. Worst, Rotom-W is extremely popular and has momentum with Volt Switch or can punish switch-ins with Will-O-Wisp. The meta has already been shifted with Greninja and Gunk Shot only detracts a few things now. Does it make it more unpredictable? Yes. Does it make it an automatic win-condition for every match? Hell no.

There is a bit more into Greninja such as the use of Water Shuriken and other unique tricks he has but, tbh, that has never really been a problem here. Most people are running the linear Special Greninja or occasionally the U-Turn set. That's two sets folks with a variable that may or may not matter at all. You might compare this to Genesect, but here is another argument towards that.

See, Genesect was a problem because Genesect could pull off virtually anything without a problem thanks to it's amazing stats and Download. It also wasn't worn down by Priority, nor was it easily stopped. The only thing that could downright defeat Genesect 1-1 was Heatran, and then you could just U-Turn out into Landorus-T or something. Greninja does not have this luxury as his physical moveset pales in comparison to his special moveset. Using a Physical Greninja would seem downright gimmicky as you don't really get much power into it. Even with STAB Low Kick, you STILL struggle to 3HKO Chansey w/Eviolite.

Not to say that Greninja can't do that either as, hello item. But that's only a very rare variable compared to a massive constant to a meta game. I'm personally going to be against banning Greninja.

Cast your votes guys! And if you do vote, please give a explanation on why it should be suspected or naw.

[Lord Bagel]

Even though a nice amount of things kill it because of frailty most of the time at least something if not your entire team will fall before you can take down that stupid frog. No thank you, I can work around greninja but I would rather not.

[Cowtao]

I would like to say I didn't mean that I don't want this thing suspected. I am against this but i'm interest to what's going to come out of suspecting it.

Personally, it's versatility is still going to be a topic of debate. Albeit being very situational, and at the same time, being flat out amazing. I do want to see the results of this. Bring on the frog to the court.

[Deleted User]

I think we need to set a certain parameter for vote percentage to actually have a suspect test. But I voted yes. I'd like to at least see how things are without it.

[Void]

Whether it should be banned or not is debatable, but I think it definitely deserves a suspect.

[Jelly]

i'd say wait until we get the main server back and set up ladder reqs. get to x amount of points and screenshot and post in the thread so we know who actually gets to vote. something like that anyway

[Kiozo]

Hi Everyone!

So, Kamina and I are talking in a lot of depth about tiers; suspects, management, and very specifically processes. As far as processes are concerned, we need to organize things so the entire tiering effort, from start to finish, runs smoothly, and appropriately.

So far, we are definitely making strides to what we need to establish as guidelines, definitions, and requirements, but we're not done yet. We are trying to move it along fast; but fast isn't always organized and accurate. In the past, if we left things undefined, we had a lack of uniformity and of a proper tiering effort.

While this is a nice start, we have things we need to do first. It's worth noting that while we're happy that there is desire to make an impact, and beneficial changes to the metagame, we didn't officially 'ok' the thread. As such, we're going to lock it, for now. Don't worry - we're happy with direction, we're just not ready as a whole. I'll take responsibility for that, so you can send bad messages to the inbox located in my profile if you have to!

Thank you for the effort so far, and the dedication to Reborn. Thank you for your patience, and sorry for the trouble.

P.S. - I've noted some of the suggestions in the thread as well. Not everything might make it but everything should get discussed. Thanks!