Help with a league team

[Sheep]

Hey guys, I figure it's about time I hit up the league. I've been pretty busy with uni lately but I'm super keen to find out what the league is all about first hand. But for that I need a team. I threw this together but I've got a few concerns with it so any suggestions/advice would be awesome.

At a glance:

So that's what I'm looking at working with. Now for something a little more in depth.

Ringo

Heracross@Choice Scarf/Choice Band

Moxie/Guts

252 EVs in Attack and Speed with a Jolly nature

Megahorn

Close Combat

Sleep Talk

Stone Edge/Rock Slide

I'm mainly using this guy because I freakin love heracross. Also moxie scarf heracross can clean up late game pretty nicely and with guts and sleep talk he can also work as a sleep absorber. (Lack of sleep clause has got me a bit scared.) I usually use stone edge on these guys but with the league operating with game modes outside of singles (my area of expertise) rock slide may be a better option. With access to two great abilities depending on how much work I think he'll do against a team or the presence of obvious sleep inducing moves as well as the option to go scarfed or banded depending on the situation I think he'll really make a valuable member of the team. (And yes he's called Ringo 'cause he's a beetle)

Alpha

Tyranitar@Focus Sash/Assault Vest

Sand Stream/Unnerve

252 EVs in HP and Attack with an Adamant nature

Stone Edge/Rock Slide

Crunch

Stealth Rock

Superpower/Earthquake

Tyranitar is my usual rocks lead and general bulky attacker. The focus sash almost guarantees that he'll get rocks up no matter the situation. For teams against which rocks won't be that useful or multi battles in which the focus sash doesn't look likely to save him I'll probably just equip him with an assault vest and use him as a bulky attacker. A surprise mid game sash has netted me a free kill multiple times against teams without hazards though. As for making use of unnerve, that's mostly just for opponents like Hardy who would actually benefit from the sandstorm, nothing else. Stone edge vs rock slide is the same argument as with heracross, I originally built this team for singles but I'm thinking rock slide might be more useful. Same deal with superpower vs earthquake, I feel like fighting is slightly better coverage but with earthquake hitting multiple pokemon it could be handy.

Mischief

Gliscor@Toxic Orb

Poison Heal

252 EVs in HP and Defense with an Impish nature

Earthquake

Toxic

Roost

Knock Off

This one's pretty easy. It's just a variant of the typical toxic stalling gliscor we all know and hate. Earthquake can be useful in multi battles and knock off is just good in general. Other than that I don't have much to say.

Shimmer

Milotic@Leftovers

Marvel Scale/Competitive

252 EV's in HP and Special Defence with a Calm nature

Scald

Ice Beam

Recover

Haze/HP Fire/HP Grass

Milotic makes up the other half of my defensive core. I've used it alongside gliscor before and it works wonders. It can take all of the specially oriented water and ice type attacks that gliscor tends to attract like they're nothing and gliscor's immune to electric. This means the only problem type for the both of them is grass. Gliscor can also absorb all of the toxic's that milotic doesn't really want though marvel scale means that with some smart play milotic can be more useful after becoming statused than before. The 6th gen meta has turned competitive into a fantastic ability to have at her disposal as well with sticky web giving her an instant +2 in her already pretty impressive base 100 special attack and a +2 ice beam coming the way of any predicted defoggers. Haze is just there mainly as filler to stop things using her as setup bait but HP fire is a solid alternative synergizing well with competitive to deal with bug types (particularly scizor) and hitting ferrothorn for good damage. HP grass would sacrifice that to hit bulky waters instead.

Rosie (Original, I know)

Roserade@Life Orb

Natural Cure/Technician

252 EV's in Special Attack and Speed with a Timid nature

Sludge Bomb

Giga Drain

Sleep Powder

Extrasensory/HP Fire

Roserade is here mainly to help heracross deal with my teams inherent grass weakness. With a 4x resistance and super effective STAB as well as immunity to the powders and leech seed you can't get a much better counter. Giga drain is my secondary form of STAB at the moment for a bit of recovery of the life orb recoil but if a good enough case can be made for something like leaf storm I might change it. Extrasensory is mainly there to deal with poison types that wall it's dual STAB but HP fire can be used in conjunction with technician to help with steel types. With natural cure and a grass poison dual type roserade can absorb all kinds of status helping out gliscor and heracross in their roles while bringing sleep powder as utility. I feel that roserade really fits on this team for a bit more special punch and utility.

Frills

Heliolisk@Life Orb

Dry Skin/Sand Veil/Solar Power

252 EV's in Special Attack and Speed with a Timid nature

Thunderbolt

Surf

Hyper Beam/HP Grass/Grass Knot (Yes you read that right, Hyper Beam)

Volt Switch

My national lizard, (the frill neck that is) try as hard as you like, you'll never convince me that a good heliolisk isn't worth it's weight in gold. I've used this little hand grenade in smogon OU with great levels of success. With a nice base 109 special attack and speed he's faster than most people think and packs a punch with STAB t-bolt. With dry skin he's also possibly the single best counter to water types (that don't have a ground typing attached to them) in the game. With not one, or two, but three great abilities that all work well with the rest of my team I really feel this little lightning lizard will work with the others well. Solar power will likely only come out against Charlotte ('cause I'm guessing she likes sun) but choosing between the other two on a game to game basis will give me a nice degree of flexability. Surf's great for multi battles and in singles he can get me momentum with volt switch. As for hyper beam, well all I can say is that it's often forgotten that he is also part normal and therefore life orb boosted STAB hyper beam is ludicrously powerful. I'd only use it as a parting shot type move when he's about to die to his life orb or is confronted with a swampert that I can't switch into for some reason but some grass type coverage may be better overall. Not sure which is better out of HP grass or grass knot but he can have both so give me some feedback on this guy. Final note, he also handles bellyjet azumarill really well.

With the team on a whole I have a few concerns, mainly that without any fire type coverage scizor laughs at me and that's the last thing I want. Roserade can't fix that with HP fire 'cause she's not bulky enough but milotic could catch it by surprise. She's also fast enough to outspeed it if it wants to go for u-turn but then I lose haze. Also I'm not sure if my team is still too geared for singles, I am by nature a singles player and don't have much experience with the other forms of the game.

Please give me your thoughts, suggestions, and advice 'cause ideally I'd like to make this team work.

Importable:

Ringo (Heracross) (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Moxie

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Megahorn

- Close Combat

- Sleep Talk

- Stone Edge

Rosie (Roserade) (F) @ Life Orb

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Sludge Bomb

- Giga Drain

- Sleep Powder

- Extrasensory

Mischief (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb

Trait: Poison Heal

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Earthquake

- Toxic

- Roost

- Knock Off

Shimmer (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Marvel Scale

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Scald

- Ice Beam

- Recover

- Haze

Frills (Heliolisk) (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Dry Skin

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

- Hyper Beam

- Volt Switch

Alpha (Tyranitar) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Sand Stream

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Stone Edge

- Crunch

- Stealth Rock

- Superpower

Edited April 15, 2014 by Sheep93

[FraRPetO]

Rock Slide over Stone Edge, for accuracy and multiple hitting reasons

Maybe Icy Wind on Milotic, it hits multiple opponents and slows them down, it could be very useful :]

Discharge on Heliolisk for multiple opponents as well, and slightly more chance to paralyze. (Keep in mind it also hits your team) Hyper Beam looks good though

[Sheep]

Rock Slide over Stone Edge, for accuracy and multiple hitting reasons

Maybe Icy Wind on Milotic, it hits multiple opponents and slows them down, it could be very useful :]

Discharge on Heliolisk for multiple opponents as well, and slightly more chance to paralyze. (Keep in mind it also hits your team) Hyper Beam looks good though

I wouldn't accept rock slide over stone edge for simple accuracy purposes but with the multi hitting thing I'm tempted. I'll reserve judgement on that one until I get some more opinions. Unfortunately heliolisk can't get discharge. The best thing it gets for multiple opponents is parabolic charge, but it's power is somewhat lackluster. Icy wind is a possibility though.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, if the speed drop allowed milotic to outspeed on the next turn you'd be getting around as much damage as a single ice beam but on both opponents. That does sound like a good idea.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Sheep93

[FraRPetO]

Ignorant me, I thought it had Discharge just because it was Electric type but I guess not x)

And Rock Slide has a chance of flinching, and if you use it with a Pokémon that has the ability "Sheer Force", Rock Slide can be very strong and cancels Life Orb damage

[Sheep]

Also icy wind is a gen 5 move tutor move but competitive is a gen 6 ability. This makes the combination of the two illegal right? If so which is more valuable?

[Sapphire]

Do remember that natures, stats, and items can all be changed, and that the leaders can pick their battle style, then stack their teams against you, so you want a nice variety of moves, as well as a team that's pretty flexible.

[Fezzdog]

I really like your team Looks like something I had back in Gen 5.

One thing I'd take note is that you have no priority, and when practically all of your pokemon take severe damage from one priority move or the other, I'd be wary. I know that's not a problem for a lot of people, but meh, it's what I say in these threads.

As much as I love Sleep Talk Heracross, leaders will likely see it and probably play triples versus you and not touch it at all. I reckon it's a wasted moveslot, you'd be better off running a Lum Berry in those few cases where sleep is a problem (Laura, Aya and Noel; potentially Samson, Bennett, Ciel and Anna, but honestly I've never seen the last 4 run it). I'd say put Earthquake instead of Sleep Talk on this moveslot.

Your lack of a firemon is pretty significant I feel, especially when you're missing out on Heat Wave. If it was myself I'd get rid of Gliscor and run Talonflame/Chandelure. Talonflame gives you priority and the weakness to rocks and water is compounded by you running Tyranitar, Roserade and potentially Dry Skin Heliolisk. Chandelure gives you a hefty Heat Wave, access to Trick Room and a wide variety of coverage. I know Gliscor gives you access to a hefty Earthquake, but I feel like it has less impact than Heat Wave does. Gliscor does give you very strong Singles capabilities (Toxic Stall Gliscor is so annoying when you're not the one running it ), so that's something to consider, but I already feel like your team is too Singles-orientated just by looking at the Team Preview.

One thing I'd also say is Stealth Rocks on T-tar in League is meh. If you want to use it as a sash-breaker then I'd understand but T-tar's sand already has that covered. SR doesn't have that much impact in triples and there's few cases where it'd destroy a team completely without a leader having counters (hello Bennett). Ciel at least has Xatu and Magic Coat/Taunt and Triples capability with the new Wide Guard mechanics potentially nullifying Rock Slide (haven't seen much proof she'll run it though). I'd probably run Dragon Dance on it instead considering you have no set-up sweepers. If you do, Ice Punch on T-tar > Superpower considering you already have Heracross for Fighting coverage. That's just my opinion though, I know a lot of people swear by SR in League.

Also, as for Icy Wind, I'd say that it's good, but it's not necessarily the greatest when you consider half of the Leaders have some form of Trick Room in their arsenal. I'd say run Blizzard just to hit more people but seeing that you're running T-tar, I'd steer clear away from it. Competitive prevents any Intimidate shenanigans going on in Triples so I'd probably run that and Surf > Scald if it were my team. I know a lot of people here however would definitely run the set you're running right now with Competitive but I'm not a fan of Scald in League. The RNG on it and slow-burn doesn't make much sense in Triples when the matches end in less than 5 turns normally. In Singles however, a Scald burn is definitely a godsend, which is something to consider, but again, your team looks very Singles-orientated so I don't think many Leaders will Singles vs you except for the obvious Bennett and Shade, which T-tar honestly wrecks face against until the Aegislash but meh, if you're still running Gliscor or are running EQ on Heracross already, you shouldn't have a problem versus the Aegislash. Heracross on Bennett's team might also be a nightmare, but definitely less so than Shade's Aegislash when you consider that you have a Gliscor (Gligar being Heracross' premier wall last generation).

Edited April 15, 2014 by Fezzdog

[Sheep]

If it was myself I'd get rid of Gliscor and run Talonflame/Chandelure.

Mmm... the main problem with this is that I don't really like either talonflame or chandy. Don't get me wrong they're both great suggestions but I find it hard to enjoy playing if I don't like the pokes I'm using. What do you think of arcanine? Access to both heat wave and e-speed. Not sure what I'd drop though. Or how I'd try to spec a mixed one. (I know I can change the stats around but it's good to have an idea of what you're doing when you select the moves right?) Like you said without gliscor, heracross is a huge problem. I'd be tempted to drop t-tar but without him ghost is a problem. Damn this is hard.

Also are you telling me that the leaders can examine your team before they pick to play in singles or triples? Again... damn.

I really like your suggestion to throw blizzard onto milotic though, and surf synergizes very well with dry skin on heliolisk. The more changes like this I make though the more offensive it gets. With that in mind do you think that dedicated walls work in league? In triples they could just bypass their better defenses right?

So yeah, to me arcanine looks like a pretty good bet but I'm not sure what to drop. What do you think?

Edited April 15, 2014 by Sheep93

[Fezzdog]

Mmm... the main problem with this is that I don't really like either talonflame or chandy. Don't get me wrong they're both great suggestions but I find it hard to enjoy playing if I don't like the pokes I'm using. What do you think of arcanine? Access to both heat wave and e-speed. Not sure what I'd drop though. Or how I'd try to spec a mixed one. (I know I can change the stats around but it's good to have an idea of what you're doing when you select the moves right?) Like you said without gliscor, heracross is a huge problem. I'd be tempted to drop t-tar but without him ghost is a problem. Damn this is hard.

Also are you telling me that the leaders can examine your team before they pick to play in singles or triples? Again... damn.

I really like your suggestion to throw blizzard onto milotic though, and surf synergizes very well with dry skin on heliolisk. The more changes like this I make though the more offensive it gets. With that in mind do you think that dedicated walls work in league? In triples they could just bypass their better defenses right?

Arcanine is actually a really good idea, idk why I never think of him. He seems to suit so many teams and then I just completely forget he exists for some reason. I'd honestly still say replace Gliscor, Intimidate deals with Heracross decently, not as amazingly as Gliscor does, but still, you shouldn't have problems using Arcanine > Gliscor. Arcanine does get Crunch, so there's a consideration if you want to replace T-tar with the Arcanine.

When I was talking about Blizzard, I actually meant not to run Blizzard because T-tar's Sand already reduces its piss poor accuracy to something piddly. You'd have to play around it needlessly I feel.

What do you think trainer cards are for if they can't see your team o.o They'd even be able to read this post most likely lol

And yeh, dedicated walls suck when Triples and Doubles are things. I've never seen a team running Blissey getting any further than the 3rd badge.

[Sheep]

When I was talking about Blizzard, I actually meant not to run Blizzard because T-tar's Sand already reduces its piss poor accuracy to something piddly. You'd have to play around it needlessly I feel.

Where are you getting that idea? Everything I've ever known says that blizzard has 100% accuracy in hail and 70% in all other weathers. Assuming that is the case, you reckon surf, blizzard, recover and HP fire on milotic? Earthquake on heracross, drop gliscor for arcanine and run heat wave, e-speed, and two of flare blitz, close combat. wild charge, and crunch. Probably not wild charge though 'cause heliolisk's got water covered. Leave roserade and heliolisk as is? And either run a DD t-tar or find a different set up sweeper to round out the team. Pretty different from what I originally had planned but I can see why it's necessary.

Also obviously I want to run rock slide on t-tar but what about heracross? With earthquake doing the multi hit thing and stone edge not really hitting that hard without STAB do you think rock slide is a good idea or is stone edge better?

[Notus]

One thing I liked about this team is that you can easily slow it down to work with opposing Trick Room at your side.

Other than that, I think everyone's covered the important stuff (Arcanine seems a really nice idea, as priority plays a huge part on my run at least). That said, good luck, and if you want some warm-up before the leader battles just tell me!

Edit: Oh, remember Earthquake will hit your team as well, and without Gliscor all your pokémon get damage from it.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Notus

[Sheep]

That said, good luck, and if you want some warm-up before the leader battles just tell me!

Edit: Oh, remember Earthquake will hit your team as well, and without Gliscor all your pokémon get damage from it.

Thanks! I may just take you up on that offer. Also, yeah I had that in mind and will likely be sticking to heracross' dual STAB most of the time anyway.

Man, I just realized that with arcanine my team is very weak to ground! I'll try to look into some way to fix this.

[Notus]

Uhn, maybe Rotom-W for Milotic? You'll get levitate and Will-O-Wisp, but will lose Ice coverage unless you run HP Ice. Chesto-Rest can take status, and you can also use it with a variety of items and Ev's if you feel status won't be troublesome.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Notus

[Fezzdog]

I'd still definitely run Rock Slide > Stone Edge just for the possibility of hitting multiples (maybe even flinching) in Triples and Doubles. I thought Blizzard getting reduced by Sand was always the case, like Hurricane in Sun, maybe I'm wrong. DD T-tar isn't exactly necessary, plenty of Hall of Famers don't have set-up sweepers. Heliolisk and Roserade look fine as is so far.

idk about Rotom-W, Heliolisk does what Rotom-W does already I feel.

[Sheep]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I think I'll roll with this for now and see what happens. If the ground weakness proves to be too much I'll figure something out but I've got plenty of water type coverage at least.

[Sapphire]

Also are you telling me that the leaders can examine your team before they pick to play in singles or triples? Again... damn.

Not only can they do that, they can look at your trainer card, then build their team specifically to counter yours.

[Sheep]

Not only can they do that, they can look at your trainer card, then build their team specifically to counter yours.

Well, looks like I've got my work cut out for me then. Thanks for the info.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Sheep93