Ryan C's next RMT is not nearly as offensive

[Shanco]

Ryan C here again.

You may have seen my Sun team. It's good, but it's nowhere near great. That said, I've taken this to the forums. I'm looking for your input to the team, what should be changed, what should be sacrificed in favor of other ideals, etc etc. Here's the team.

EDIT: Power and accuracy have been added for each final attack after calculation with other factors, including sun, STAB, abilities, and items.

Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Drought

EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Heat Wave - 300P/90A => Flamethrower - (turntechGodhead)

- Will-O-Wisp

- Nasty Plot

- Energy Ball - 80P/100A

Standard sun dude. Runs Heat Wave to hit Doubles / Triples, Will-O-Wisp to force Special attacks which it takes better, Nasty Plot to boost attacks in the event of an anticipated switch, and Energy Ball to do some good damage to other common leads like Politoed. Upon Cloud's suggestion I went to Flamethrower as it's a much better fit for Singles battles which for now will be the the bulk of action this team sees.

Hydreigon (F) @ Life Orb

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 112 HP / 184 SAtk / 212 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Draco Meteor - 283P/100A

- Flamethrower - 247P/100A

- Dark Pulse / Focus Blast / Earth Power => Dark Pulse - 156P/100A (turntechGodhead)

- Roost

My tank. Draco Meteor and Flamethrower combine for absolute power that not even Terry Crews can match. Roost prevents Stealth Rock from being a nuisance. The last move is a toss-up and I want to hear from you about where to take it. However, I just went with Dark Pulse after suggestions from Cloud as it's a nice, strong STAB.

Infernape (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Iron Fist

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) (Skwayz)

- Flare Blitz - 360P / 100A / Flamethrower (Skwayz)

- ThunderPunch - 90P/100A / Swords Dance

- Mach Punch - 72P/100A

- U-turn / Stone Edge / Earthquake / ThunderPunch / Flamethrower (Skwayz)

Coverage sweeper. Flare Blitz hurts everything that doesn't have Flash Fire, Mach Punch is a priority move that gets a slight boost from Iron Fist, and also sets it apart from Blaziken. ThunderPunch gets the elusive Flying- and Water-types, while Swords Dance makes Infernape even more of a nightmare. The last move is another toss-up. Upon BatChu's suggestion, I've started to consider the option of a mixed sweeper, although Skarmory seldom stalls this dude successfully.

Salamence (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Moxie

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Outrage - 180P/100A

- Dragon Dance

- Earthquake - 100P/100A

- Fire Fang - 130P/95A

The power sweeper, tried and true. Salamence has surpassed JSC for my fave sweeper, and it gets even better in sunlight. Dragon Dance and Focus Sash mesh together beautifully. Literally only three moves will stop it without a boost: Rock Blast, Icicle Spear, and Ice Shard. Once my Salamence takes the Speed boost, it outspeeds everything except for the Pokemon who illogically have a Choice Scarf. Anyway, my options expand from there: Outrage makes Salamence the team-slaying nightmare that he is, Fire Fang gets its power doubled in sun and works with Attack boosts from Dragon Dance and Moxie, and Earthquake takes down things like Heatran and Empoleon and finishes Ferrothorn without Iron Barbs damage.

Leafeon (M) @ Choice Band

Trait: Chlorophyll

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Leaf Blade - 202.5P/100A

- X-Scissor / Aerial Ace => X-Scissor - 120P/100A (turntechGodhead)

- Sunny Day

- Aerial Ace / Quick Attack => Aerial Ace - 90P/999A (LunaTheNeko)

Choice attacker. Leafeon has base 130 defense, 110 attack, and Chlorophyll which accompanies base 95 speed. That in my opinion set it apart from any other Chlorophyll user, even Venusaur. Anyway, my Choice set.Offensive Leafeon always run Leaf Blade, a beautiful grass STAB which accompanies Leafeon's nice power and has a high crit-hit to boot. X-Scissor is what I put on the choice set, but I would consider Aerial Ace instead as I have few options to beat Fighting-types. If I have Aerial Ace replacing X-Scissor, then I might as well round off the set with a priority move, which in this case would be Quick Attack. Sunny Day is there because Leafeon can switch in on most common rain/sandstorm pokemon and replace the sun if another weather has appeared, as it's bulky enough to almost shrug off an Earthquake. Upon KuroNeko's suggestion, I just kept Aerial Ace over Quick Attack and X-Scissor over AA thanks to Cloud.

Starmie @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 176 HP / 80 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Power Gem / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Surf / Psychic => Ice Beam - 95P/100A (turntechGodhead)

- Thunderbolt / Power Gem / Ice Beam / Surf / Psychic => Thunderbolt - 95P/100A (turntechGodhead)

- Rapid Spin - 20P/100A

- Recover

Spinner and status absorber. Starmie is just what this team needs, seriously. I might be screwed if I didn't have one. I gave it a little bit of Special Attack so it could have some offensive presence. Rapid Spin, Recover and Natural Cure are everything you could ask for in a spinner; it can eliminate even Toxic Spikes level 2 like it never even happened. I honestly am divided between my attack choices as they all have their ups and downs: the STABs Surf and Psychic, as well as Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Power Gem. Cloud helped me come to a conclusion on the BoltBeam combo.

Slant's suggestion:

Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb

Trait: Chlorophyll

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Giga Drain - 136.5P/100A

- Hidden Power [Rock] - 101P/100A

- Quiver Dance

- Sleep Powder

Sleep-sweeper. I had absolutely no clue that our favorite flower friend could learn Sleep Powder - I thought she was restricted to GrassWhistle. (GrassWhistle...ugh.) Anyway, Slant suggested the set that I later found on Smogon. Giga Drain is the STAB. Over 130 base power will often reverse the effects of her Life Orb. The other attack move is Hidden Power [Rock]. It doesn't hit as hard as Hidden Power [Fire] but brings about some desperately needed coverage, including the ability to hit Pokemon like Dragonite and Salamence hard while beating down four of Lilligant's five weaknesses. Quiver Dance is a great move to use when switching in on something like Gastrodon as it will either run or use a non-damaging move to slow her down. Sleep Powder puts the foes to sleep provided it hits, which allows Lilligant to open fire.

Alternatives I will consider:

• Venusaur has Chlorophyll Sleep Powder, as well as a nice movepool, but its lack of real power or bulkiness made it lose the competition as the best Chlorophyll fit for this team to Leafeon.
  
• Victreebel would serve the same purpose, but with access to Sucker Punch, which is nice.
  
• Exeggutor is an odd Pokemon, but it has STAB Psychic + super fast Explosion. Gives its 95 base Attack some use, although it will likely have a Special focus.
  
• Tangrowth is a bulky Chlorophyll user, not to mention it has Swords Dance which makes Power Whip hit like a sledgehammer at 360 base.
  
• Jumpluff has 110 base speed, unbeaten by Chlorophyll users not named Whimsicott. If I'm going to use it, it will be strictly for support, as it gives and takes hits like jello.
  
• Sunflora is a special attacker with a bunch of options including Earth Power, but its Speed is so bad that after sun it still has base 60 speed. I'd rather use it on a Trick Room team.
  
• Shiftry rivals Victreebel as a Sucker Puncher, but it doesn't lay down status well at all. It will probably be a coverage-attack Pokemon more than anything.
  
• Tropius is a brontosaurus soaring through the sky. That is so awesome. It's a really weird Pokemon to use though, although its Speed would be respectable, it's a Grass-Flying. I would probably use it as a SubSeed tank.
  
• Leavanny has nothing on Leafeon except for STAB X-Scissor, which isn't too useful. It does have Entrainment though, useful for multi-Pokemon battles.
  
• Swadloon fits better into my team because it can stall with defenses in the 400's and can use Rest / Leaf Guard to heal completely.
  
• Whimsicott is useful as Prankster status, but I could also run Chlorophyll status. In sunshine, it becomes the fastest Pokemon in the game with Speed at 232 base.
  
• Sawsbuck is not as powerful or bulky as Leafeon but makes up for it by having a much better movepool, and like Leafeon has access to Swords Dance.
  
• Charizard has its attacks, which are already powerful, pumped up with Solar Power.
  
• Blaziken was considered for Speed Boost but doesn't have Mach Punch. That's what set Infernape apart from it.
  
• Darmanitan is raw power, but it's frail despite its HP potentially being over 400.
  
• Volcarona kind of sounds like a vampire (it gets STAB Leech Life!). I've been considering it, but I replaced it with Hydreigon for now because I wanted a tank, and its coverage is way better.
  
• Aggron gets to Head Smash away without being too worried about Water-type attacks as their power is slashed in half in sun.
  

If you have other brainy ideas, like Scarf Typhlosion, let me hear 'em.

This might be the team that I (could) start over League with, so I will not be considering legendaries.

Cheers, guys. Have at it.

Edited October 2, 2012 by rc52

[Cloud]

Firstly, why do you have Heat Wave on Ninetales? Only add Heat Wave if you actually need it for Doubles or Triples and as far as I know this is a Singles team, correct? If it wasn't, I'm sure you would have said so. I would replace Heat Wave with Flamethrower or Fire Blast simply for power and accessibility. Just go with Scald/Tbolt/Ice Beam/Recover on Starmie, as there's no reason to have Power Gem or Psychic as they don't give you a lot of necessary coverage that the rest of the team can't take. Just go with X-Scissor over Aerial Ace on Leafeon for the same reason I stated for Starmie. Salamence covers Heatran well so go with Dark Pulse on Hydreigon.

That's all I have for now.

[Iolite]

Ninetales - Flamethrower or Fire Blast instead of Heat Wave. But since you said the team was for doubles/triples, maybe use a Heatran somewhere in the team.

Hydreigon seems fine.

Infernape - Fine as it is.

Salamence - I suggest replacing it with something that can abuse Sun.

Leafeon - Aerial Ace instead of Quick Attack. Since it's choice banded, I don't suggest having Sunny Day on the set. Not good to be locked in on that if it ever happens. (which..for me, it has...)

Starmie - It's a water type in Sun, so I don't think it would be very useful. I understand because Natural Cure + Rapid Spin. You could use Donphan as a spinner and set up hazards.

hurr what do I know how to pogaymanz

[Tringus]

Seems good for a Sunny Day Team. Nice!

[Shanco]

I appreciate the help.

To turntechGodhead

• I said it could potentially be a League team, so there could be Doubles or Triples battles with this team later on but for now, I should probably just keep Flamethrower.
  
• I had to leave Rapid Spin in. Not having Rapid Spin eliminates the purpose of Starmie being there in the first place.
  

To LunaTheNeko

I understand that Donphan is a good idea, getting Ice Shard, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Roar and all that, but I thought about Donphan. Here's why he's not on the team and Starmie is:

• Starmie is better at taking SolarBeam, which will be used against me in the sun every now and again
  
• Starmie is faster
  
• I already have a powerful Earthquake through Salamence + Dragon Dance and potentially Infernape
  
• Donphan can't recover except through Rest
  

Sunny Day on a banded Leafeon is fine as long as I have a switch in, which will usually be Infernape, Starmie or Hydreigon depending on the incoming attack that I expect to hit.

To Trevo:

Thanks for the moral support.

[Cloud]

Oh right, I forgot about Rapid Spin. My bad. Anyway, yeah, team looks pretty fine now. c:

[Guest]

I personally wouldn't have Sunny Day on a Leafeon, mainly because you'd rather not lose Ninetales, then switch in if there's a different weather out, put that weather out with Sunny Day, then the Pokemon is banded so you have to switch, which wastes a turn. Just not band it

[Kamina]

Replace infernape with blazakin. yah infernape has mach punch but Blazakin out speed almost every poke after 2 turn and also hits a lot harder.

[Skwayz]

Kam, don't say that :0.

Ken is ugly and nape is cool.

So yeah, maybe you could play MixApe to pass over stall. It's a cool mon.

You don't have ant revenge killer if sun ist't up, so maybe a scarf on mence. Sash is a bad item on it anyway.

Seems creative and not bad, so gl hf with the team.

[Shanco]

To Kamina:

Blaziken is banned in OU outside of Reborn. It also has no priority except for (if I remember correctly) Fake Out and Quick Attack.

To Batchu:

A focus sash, provided no hazards are out, allows for a flexible strategy. It gives me something to throw in the way of something being powered by Swords Dance that I can outspeed, such as Scizor. As a revenge killer, I also get to power it up with Dragon Dance while it survives any kind of hit, and on the ensuing turn it will most likely be faster than the opponent even if it has a Choice Scarf, and will also be able to hit with +1 Attack, or even worse if they can't hit with a good attack. Which means the other Pokemon will more than likely be helpless while Salamence's amazing coverage allows it to blow them away, with at least two of its attacks hitting each pokemon in the tier for neutral damage or better.

[Skwayz]

Huh, again, sash isn't a really good item as every incoming status/weather dammage n priority won't make it work well on a salamence. It's not like sun will always be up and it's not like you'll be able to spin anytime you want.

Just sayin. Keep that if you want. It just seems obvious to me.

Oh and fire fang is meh, a +1 under sun don't even OHKO skarm, so fire blast is way better.

[Shanco]

• I'm not too concerned about weather as most of the time I will have sun out thanks to two Pokemon with access to the move, and will-o-wisp users are typically slower than Salamence. Paralysis is another story, but I can probably still do massive damage as most Thunder Wave users will bow before Salamence's power in some way or another (Magnezone might resist Outrage but certainly not either of the other two attacks). Salamence, of course, might not get the attack off, but that's the risk I take.
  
• Fire Fang has 95 accuracy and gets boosts from Dragon Dance and Moxie. With +1 attack and sun, Fire Fang is 195P / 95 A, compared to Fire Blast which will have 240P / 80A. I'd much rather go with an attack that not only is more accurate, but gets constant boosts from Moxie. Another boost and Fire Fang will have more power.
  
• I'm not worried about Skarmory walling Salamence. Skarmory goes down with only one +2 Fire Fang in sun, and with Skarmory almost always going with a status move like Stealth Rock first (except for the rare choice varieties), I have the time to boost it. Or pretty much any Steel-type not named Dialga, for that matter. Should that fail, I have other Pokemon like Starmie who can OHKO / 2HKO it with something like Thunderbolt.
  

Edited October 1, 2012 by rc52

[slant]

Hey ryan, a few suggestions:

-Your team really lacks some solid pivots. Everything is really frail (yes even Hydreigon and Starmie) so I would think about swapping them out for more defensive pokemon (e.g. Forry). In particular your team has no dragon resists, which means that scarf moxie mence, physical dnite, and specs latios can run through this team pretty easily.

-To echo Skwayz, try out Scarfmence instead of focus sash/dd. Its revenge killing capabilities are really unmatched, and arguably dnite fills the role of dragon dancer better due to multiscale.

-I'd recommend Lilligant over Leafeon (Quiver dance, giga drain, hp fire, sleep powder). It doesn't really need sun to survive, and is fully capable of sweeping through opposing rain/sand teams. If sun is up, Lilligant can also disable something with sleep powder which is awesome.

In contrast, here are the problems I see with Leafeon: 1) If you need it to set up sunny day, you will have to switch out the next turn, but as I pointed out already you lack defensive pivots. 2) In general you should avoid using a choiced attacker as a sweeper since the lack of flexibility will mean that your opponent can easily wall you. 3) Grass and bug are horrible attacking types, a lot of pokemon resist both coverage types.

Hope this helps

[Shanco]

Slant's response is the kind of response I'm looking for here:

• I know this team is primarily frail, and that, good sir, is why I posted this RMT.
  
• The Scarf Salamence is cool, but has caused me problems. I tried it out a few times and while the results were pretty good, I wasn't able to completely 6-0 a team with just that Salamence, unlike this dude. I find it every bit as capable of being a revenge killer as the other.
  
• I like the Forretress idea. I'll try him out, although his Special Defense totally sucks, at 60 base. It would, however, be hard to find a better SpinSetter, as although I would prefer Torkoal it's bad. I won't rule out Ferrothorn for a hazard setter. Now that you mention Forry, I thought of Ferry as it can hold up every other weather with its defenses.
  
• My concern with Lillgant was that I might be favoring special attackers too much. This, however, makes me immediately look to Volcarona because of its typing with STAB Special fire. This, however, makes me think again of Lilligant because I already have that in Ninetales.
  
• Leafeon's defense is alright. Like I might have said before, its Defense allows me to absorb other physical attacks that would badly hurt the other fellows. It seems useless at first, but I think there's plenty of potential for a Baton Pass set, which would give it a niche on my team. I'll give it another look, because that thing is underestimated when the sun beats down on it.
  

Thanks for the contribution.